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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2017, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by disneysteve View Post
I don't see how it would be either unethical or immoral or an owner to say, "I normally wouldn't do this but I can see from your address where you live so I trust that you're telling the truth. I'll issue the refund. Good luck and stay safe."

I'm not saying you are in any way obligated to do that, but if you chose to, I don't see anything wrong with you doing it. It's your place. It's entirely up to you if you're willing to forfeit the cost of that stay.
Buy trip cancellation insurance. Homeowners are not insurance companies. Our company would be breaching fiduciary obligation by transferring risk from the guest to the homeowner.

The homeowners bear plenty of risk wiithout taking on other people's risks:

Many $ billions in property destruction and lost revenue were suffered by these same owners last December with the Smoky Mountains fires. Would it have been reasonable to ask guests to pony up $$$ for their stay even though a cabin was burned down? Of course not. That risk is on the homeowner. Hopefully they had the risk appropriately insured. Its their responsibility- not the guest's, nor the tax payer's.

I myself lost a cabin to the fires. I've been paying a monthly mortgage payment on an empty lot now for 10 months, with likely 6 more to go. But that's my risk - it's not Wells Fargo's, nor the guest's, nor the tax payer's.

Folks need to accept their own risks. Ownership.
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Last edited by TexasHusker; 09-10-2017 at 07:25 PM.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2017, 09:57 PM
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Today, we had a guest supposed to arrive, and he called to say he wanted to cancel. He wanted his money back because he was fleeing hurricane Irma but as it turns out he didn't need the cabin.

We declined of course, and he became belligerent, stating we were being greedy and should be more lax in a natural disaster situation. I tried to explain that we can't by default just transfer consequences of various tragedies straight to our homeowners. He hung up on me.

Of course, we could have rented that place 10 times to other people, but he is demanding that the homeowner eat it since he ended up not needing it.

I'm sure I'll be disputing a chargeback tomorrow. Peoples' expectations are simply amazing.
Maybe I'm dense, but if they were fleeing the storm, why not come and take their vacation as planned? Seems that the vacation home that they had already rented would be a better shelter that a red cross type shelter facility. Things like this make my brain 'itch'.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 05:26 AM
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Maybe I'm dense, but if they were fleeing the storm, why not come and take their vacation as planned? Seems that the vacation home that they had already rented would be a better shelter that a red cross type shelter facility. Things like this make my brain 'itch'.

I would want to be there to asses damage, contact the insurance, try to stop looters, etc. I found out yesterday that my Citi card offers automatic travel insurance for whatever portion of the trip is purchased with the card. I had been looking up the rental car coverage, which is crap, but the travel insurance sounded very reasonable. I have no idea how hard it is to get them to pay, though. Maybe ask them to check their credit cards for coverage and transfer the liability to the cards and not the homeowner. If they know travel insurance wouldn't cover it, it is unreasonable to expect the owner to do so.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 05:29 AM
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Our company would be breaching fiduciary obligation by transferring risk from the guest to the homeowner.
I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about a home you own. If it's a home that you just manage, certainly that decision shouldn't be made by you. That would be inappropriate. Now if the owner decided to grant a refund, there's nothing unethical or immoral about that. That's what I was talking about.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 05:31 AM
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Maybe I'm dense, but if they were fleeing the storm, why not come and take their vacation as planned?
Maybe they had no way to get there. I have many friends and family in southern Florida. They couldn't have evacuated if they wanted to.

Also, many people don't want to leave their homes. They want to be there to secure the place before and start the clean up right away after. If I was in the situation, I'm sure I probably would have been cancelling any travel plans also.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 08:10 AM
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He wanted his money back because he was fleeing hurricane Irma
This is why I asked what I did. If he is fleeing anyhow, why not go to a place that is already paid for? Even if for a couple of days until they can go back home.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 08:41 AM
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What happened is that we are inundated with calls from folks evacuating, starting about a week ago. We could have rented every property 10 times for the same time period.

For many, they just decided to get out of the coming storm and enjoy a few days away, then go back.

This guy called the morning of arrival and said "Oh I guess we won't be needing it after all, by the way I want our money back since this was a natural disaster."

My guess is they decided their particular area wasn't in imminent danger. I get that, but guess what, you still pay for the house you reserved.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 08:56 AM
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My guess is they decided their particular area wasn't in imminent danger. I get that, but guess what, you still pay for the house you reserved.
Definitely. In that case, there's no reason to even entertain the possibility of issuing a refund.

That makes no sense, though. If I wanted to book something "just in case", I would book a hotel room, not a rental property. At least with the hotel I can cancel 24 hours in advance or even the same day depending on the hotel. And if I don't show up, I only get charged for the 1st night, not the entire stay.
Gailete likes this.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2017, 05:48 AM
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If you are running a business, you just need to run the business. Someone's personal issues are not your problem. So, the policy is the policy, oh well.
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by TexasHusker View Post
What happened is that we are inundated with calls from folks evacuating, starting about a week ago. We could have rented every property 10 times for the same time period.

For many, they just decided to get out of the coming storm and enjoy a few days away, then go back.

This guy called the morning of arrival and said "Oh I guess we won't be needing it after all, by the way I want our money back since this was a natural disaster."

My guess is they decided their particular area wasn't in imminent danger. I get that, but guess what, you still pay for the house you reserved.
It sounds like one of the things is that you have to emphasize that the fee is non-refundable no matter the excuse (except maybe they died). People tend to block out what they don't want to hear, so it needs repeated at least three times. And perhaps a separate paragraph on the contract about the non-refundability that they sign to show they understand that their fee will not be refunded for any reason and if they want to buy insurance what to do.
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:44 AM
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perhaps a separate paragraph on the contract about the non-refundability that they sign to show they understand that their fee will not be refunded for any reason and if they want to buy insurance what to do.
This is a perfectly good idea, but I guarantee it won't help.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Gailete View Post
It sounds like one of the things is that you have to emphasize that the fee is non-refundable no matter the excuse (except maybe they died). People tend to block out what they don't want to hear, so it needs repeated at least three times. And perhaps a separate paragraph on the contract about the non-refundability that they sign to show they understand that their fee will not be refunded for any reason and if they want to buy insurance what to do.
We have this very prominently in our rental agreements already. It makes no difference.

A lot of people look at contracts/agreements from a purely selfish standpoint: If there is something in the thing that ends up causing them anguish, then they just ignore it altogether.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:35 PM
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We have this very prominently in our rental agreements already. It makes no difference.
Life's biggest lies: I have read and agree to the terms and conditions.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:39 PM
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Here's the latest sob story:

"Hello...my name is _________________ and we rented a cabin under the name of _________________________ (my girlfriend) for the hurricane Irma evacuation. Unfortunately as the storm path evolved it was made clear to us that leaving and moving into the storm could be more dangerous than staying home. As of now we are unable to make it to the cabin. This has been a stressful time trying to make the right decisions to keep our family safe. Our two vehicles have over 200,000 miles on them so it would be risky to go that far unless we had to, which it looked like we did when we made the reservation. I would like to call upon your compassion as a fellow American and human being and ask for you to refund as much as possible...We live below the poverty level and any amount would be a big deal to our family."


OK so let me get this straight:

1. You are below poverty but you rented a luxury vacation home for evacuation?

2. Why would you make a reservation for a vacation home that you believe you can't safely drive to, even in nice weather?

3. The homeowner you are asking for a refund could have rented the place to 10 other people, but can't because you reserved and then cancelled it. Is it being a good fellow American and human to now ask them to pay for the house in lost revenue, because you decided you couldn't use it?

4. Why don't you behave like a good fellow American and Human Bean and pay for your own mistakes, without trying to toss them onto some innocent soul who doesn't even know you?

As a side note

I googled this guy on facebook and he appears to be a rocker living near the beach in SC. Does a lot of gigs and a lot of partying and fishing, judging from the photos. If he's living below poverty, it's by choice.

His girlfriend is a Stress Relief Facilitator & EFT Practitioner, as well as the owner/hostess of a Karaoke Bar and photo booth.

But they deserve a refund.

Sheesh.
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Last edited by TexasHusker; 09-13-2017 at 12:48 PM.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by disneysteve View Post
life's biggest lies: I have read and agree to the terms and conditions.
lol
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:48 PM
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As a side note

I googled this guy on facebook and he appears to be a rocker living near the beach in SC. Does a lot of gigs and a lot of partying and fishing, judging from the photos. If he's living below poverty, it's by choice.

His girlfriend is a Stress Relief Facilitator & EFT Practitioner, as well as the owner/hostess of a Karaoke Bar and photo booth.

But they deserve a refund.
Our society just gets more and more self-centered, selfish, and only carrying about themselves. I blame it on those Kids softball/basball games where they don't keep score, and declare everyone a winner and they all get a trophy. Like the kids are dumb, they know perfectly well that the other team won. But more and more as these kids grow up under the influences of stupid rules like that, the more we will see these sorts of things happening.

When we had to re-rent out rental unit in July, our old tenant moved a lady and her three kids in. We were taking down her info around the 20th when we found out, and at that point with ten days to go before the next rent was due, she had not a penny towards the rent and oh yeah 'I'm not sure of the status of my DUI'. My friends who handles rentals in Iowa did a criminal search for her and found that it was her thrid DUI which is when our state throws the book at them. So somehow facing a jail term and no money she wanted to rent a place from us. Not a Section 8 property by any means. I'm surprised we even got her out of there so we could actually rent it! I bet by August she would have had to move out into different accomodations, A-pod at our local jail, or certainly wouldn't have any rent money to give us and we would have gotten the excuses and at the end for some reason it comes down to the landlord/us. We had one couple that was on vacation and didn't bother sending in the rent on time, and she was so upset that we expected it, she came to our house and started screaming at me, blaming us for the whole thing. I had to go and lay down until my blood pressure went back down.

I think many renter see landlords as being wealthy/rich/well-to do, etc. just because we can 'afford' to have a property to rent out. So of course we can handle not having the rent paid or thinking they should get a refund for any excuse. On line buys many times are the same way.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2017, 05:50 PM
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EFT Practitioner
Electronic Funds Transfer Practitioner?
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2017, 06:52 PM
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Electronic Funds Transfer Practitioner?
That's it!
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:27 PM
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.....

Last edited by ronb; 09-13-2017 at 07:28 PM. Reason: stuff
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:27 PM
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Texas needs to start a renter blacklist.
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