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Old 09-07-2016, 09:14 AM
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Default Obamacare failing?

Where do you think Obamacare is going? Do you think it'll just shutter it's doors? Unfortunately it appears that a free market system of healthcare with conditions can't work. All it did was force insurers to sign up people with pre-exisiting conditions. And then they lost money and pulled out. But unfortunately you need healthy people to balance the sick and it's not feasible in a free market system unless we force everyone to sign up with much higher penalties. But prices don't appear to be getting lower either.
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Old 09-07-2016, 09:50 AM
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The rumor I am hearing out here in Oregon is the major insurers have taking a massive bath on the exchanges - the big players want to pull out but aren't sure how.
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:52 AM
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Obamacare's rules were written in such a way that profitability for insurers would be all but impossible. Since most of the insurers are publicly traded companies with shareholders like you and me to answer to, losing hundreds of $ millions per year to play along with the scheme is untenable.

Eventually, most (if not all) insurers will abandon their offerings on the exchange. At that point, Obamacare will cease and desist, or become single payer (Medicare), depending largely on who controls the White House and Congress over the next 4 years.

Obamacare is blue-sky utopian plan that simply had no chance to succeed long term. Similar to attempting to race a quarterhorse at Belmont: The start was great but the ending will be ugly.
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:58 AM
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profitability for insurers would be all but impossible.
I believe Aetna and United have both announced they were pulling out.
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Old 09-07-2016, 12:51 PM
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I believe Aetna and United have both announced they were pulling out.
In GA United has last I heard.
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Old 09-07-2016, 02:14 PM
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I remember hearing a comment from a politician when it was first being discussed--something about that the public wouldn't accept socialized medicine, so they were starting with Obamacare first. The implication I got was that it was the first step to socialized medicine, not a replacement.

I read the bill before it was passed--all 1300 something pages. My overriding thought was--there's no money for this. There's no way the new taxes and funding sources will ever pay for this. And after it was passed, many of the new taxes were cancelled. Was it designed to fail?

There's no way it can ever succeed financially. There have been many options that could possibly succeed floated--let there be actual choice (i.e. purchase insurance from any company in the country, purchase exactly what you want) but that will never pass because it doesn't support the agenda/path of Obamacare to Medicare for All.

I don't know what we'll eventually end up with. I know my medical insurance accepted several million new subscribers in my state and my medical care went from "see the doctor" to "skype your complaint to a physician's assistant."

Personally, if the government was actually interested in providing medical care to those who couldn't afford it, they could have opened up a ton of low-cost clinics, staffed them with medical personnel who got their college loans waived for working there and actually made a real difference.
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Old 09-07-2016, 03:19 PM
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purchase insurance from any company in the country
This will never happen because insurance is a state institution, not a national one. I wish that would change since I live in NJ, one of the worst places in the country for insurance of any type, but I know it won't.
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Old 09-07-2016, 04:51 PM
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I remember hearing a comment from a politician when it was first being discussed--something about that the public wouldn't accept socialized medicine, so they were starting with Obamacare first. The implication I got was that it was the first step to socialized medicine, not a replacement.

Was it designed to fail?
Yep, that's what I heard too. See how everyone is now getting upset because it isn't working? The government will want to come in and 'save' (sarcasm) everyone = socialized medicine.

My husband is military he already knows he doesn't want to end up needing services from them. Too many horror stories of how they handle care, not to say it's all bad, but the lack of choice and access are issues I don't think the general population understands.

Yes there does need to be a way to cover all, but one size fits all isn't it!
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Old 09-07-2016, 04:56 PM
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Just another thought...

How many jobs will be lost in this country if we go to socialized medicine. Every health insurance becomes non existent, right? Will the incentive to develop new drugs and medical equipment peter out? Will the government pay the doctors and nurses just as well as the private system?
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Old 09-07-2016, 05:43 PM
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How many jobs will be lost in this country if we go to socialized medicine. Every health insurance becomes non existent, right?
Not at all. We already have "socialized medicine" in this country. It's called Medicare. It is a massive, government-run single payer insurance plan. It covers about 44 million Americans. Has that put the insurers out of business? Of course not. In fact, it has created a whole other layer of business for them. Medicare supplement policies. Medicare Part D prescription benefit plans. Durable medical equipment vendors. There are probably tens of thousands of people or more who are employed precisely because of Medicare. If the government insurance goes from covering 44 million people to covering 300 million people, the number of people needed to support that program will multiply greatly.
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:03 PM
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Certainly R&D will slow to a trickle.

If you stop and think, much (most?) of the world's innovation over the last 100 years has come from a highly capitalist economy:

Flight
Autos
Electricity
Telephone
Internet
Television
Computers

And of course, the vast majority of medical advances. The profit incentive has been the backbone of practically all of our innovation, medicine included.

As medicine shifts from a capitalist model to a socialist model, the profit incentive disappears, due to the fact that the single payer will implement strict price controls - European and Canadian style.

Moving to the socialist medicine model will most certainly come at great price to our country, the breadth of which is likely beyond our present comprehension.
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:04 PM
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Well, I admit this is very selfish of me, but I hope if it fails it does so before they make all the changes to the people who have Cadillac plans.
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:05 PM
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Well, I admit this is very selfish of me, but I hope if it fails it does so before they make all the changes to the people who have Cadillac plans.
Within 10 years, we will all have a bicycle plan.
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:16 PM
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As medicine shifts from a capitalist model to a socialist model, the profit incentive disappears, due to the fact that the single payer will implement strict price controls - European and Canadian style.
One of the biggest complaints about Medicare is that they are not allowed to negotiate prices. Many feel that's a big part of why drugs costs are so out of control. Manufacturers can charge whatever they want and know that the government will just pay it. I certainly hope that changes at some point.
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Old 09-07-2016, 07:37 PM
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Moving to the socialist medicine model will most certainly come at great price to our country, the breadth of which is likely beyond our present comprehension.
Isnt insurance kinda (or more like fundamentally) a socialist concept to begin with...?
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Old 09-07-2016, 09:59 PM
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One of the biggest complaints about Medicare is that they are not allowed to negotiate prices. Many feel that's a big part of why drugs costs are so out of control. Manufacturers can charge whatever they want and know that the government will just pay it. I certainly hope that changes at some point.
The Republicans blocked a bill introduced in 2007 and another was introduced in 2015
I understand part of Hillary's healthcare plan is to correct this.
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Old 09-08-2016, 01:31 AM
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Depends on your definition of "work" - if you are using that word in context of solving problems, then no. While staying as non-partisan as possible in answering this question, I genuinely think that the thing will collapse under its own weight. The bureaucratic hurdles are too high, the impact on the economy is too great, and the law will end up either getting repealed or drastically scaled back.

There is another school of thought out there which believes that Obamacare "working" will result in the death of the private insurance industry and a transition to a government single-payer system. It depends on one's perspective and word choice, I suppose.
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Old 09-08-2016, 04:57 AM
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There is another school of thought out there which believes that Obamacare "working" will result in the death of the private insurance industry and a transition to a government single-payer system. It depends on one's perspective and word choice, I suppose.
As I said above, if we move to a "single payer" system that looks like Medicare but for everyone, that will not kill the private industry at all. It will only add to their business. The only way a single payer system would eliminate the private industry is if it pays 100% of all costs from day one. As long as there are deductibles, co-pays, doughnut holes, co-insurance, etc. there will continue to be a market for the private companies to fill in the gaps.
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Old 09-08-2016, 05:41 AM
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Isnt insurance kinda (or more like fundamentally) a socialist concept to begin with...?
No......
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Old 09-08-2016, 06:59 AM
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No......
How is it not? Its a form of shared risk and liability. Sure the insurance companies make a profit (perhaps the rational behind your terse response), but insurance itself is based on the premise of shared risk, very much a socialist concept. One exception being if your self insured, I suppose then you avoid the social aspect of insurance.

Last edited by Spiffster; 09-08-2016 at 07:07 AM.
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