Banning gas cars?

[scfr]

Resuscitating this old thread to say that owning a plug-in hybrid has been very nice. When prices for used cars spiked we decided to go ahead and sell one of ours (the low-mileage one because it was in such high demand) and get on the wait list for a Prius Prime. It has an EV-only range of 25 miles which gets me to work and back, or to run errands (we have a "regular" Prius that we use for longer drives, but I could use the plug-in if I wanted. When it runs out of EV power it switches seamless to hybrid power. And I can fill up the gas tank just like any other car). Like many things related to PF (and life in general) it doesn't have to be a debate of 100% EV vs 100% gas-guzzler. For many of us (in this case, if you have access to at least a 120V outlet) there are options in-between.

[ua_guy]

Resuscitating this old thread to say that owning a plug-in hybrid has been very nice. When prices for used cars spiked we decided to go ahead and sell one of ours (the low-mileage one because it was in such high demand) and get on the wait list for a Prius Prime. It has an EV-only range of 25 miles which gets me to work and back, or to run errands (we have a "regular" Prius that we use for longer drives, but I could use the plug-in if I wanted. When it runs out of EV power it switches seamless to hybrid power. And I can fill up the gas tank just like any other car). Like many things related to PF (and life in general) it doesn't have to be a debate of 100% EV vs 100% gas-guzzler. For many of us (in this case, if you have access to at least a 120V outlet) there are options in-between.

Hybrids are a good way to incorporate gasoline-free driving into one's routine. No doubt hybrid (and EV) owners are feeling more smug than usual right about now
My sister just replaced a car after it was totaled in an accident with a Jeep Wrangler 4xE, which is hybrid of sorts. She now does her daily commute (3 miles each way, not walkable for her) on electric-only. The Jeep plugs in to a standard 15a/120v outlet. Not only is she saving fuel, but a LOT of wear and tear on the engine by not driving it such short distances.

[disneysteve]

Hybrids seem to make so much more sense to me than all-electrics from a practical standpoint. I wish there was more of a push in that direction

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I still want to run my numbers and see what cost savings the electric would be. I suspect right now not enough to still justify buying a new car with prices so insane.

I have a client with a bought new leased mercedes SUV $90k in August. Tells me they are going to get rid of it because it's a gas guzzler. I didn't know what to say since did it really change since August? Seems like something you'd think about being buying or leasing. I certainly would probably buy an electric or hybrid if I had to but since I have nice paid for cars...

[bjl584]

I have nothing against total EV or hybrid.
If that's what you want to drive, and if that works for your needs, then have at it.

Personally, I'm just against going into debt to get one.

My truck is paid off. It sucks down fuel, but it's all mine.

EV's are pricey, and I don't have that much cash to put into one.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I have nothing against total EV or hybrid.
If that's what you want to drive, and if that works for your needs, then have at it.

Personally, I'm just against going into debt to get one.

My truck is paid off. It sucks down fuel, but it's all mine.

EV's are pricey, and I don't have that much cash to put into one.

I'm about to calculate what it will save me. I dont' think it's worth it unfortunately

[ua_guy]

I'm about to calculate what it will save me. I dont' think it's worth it unfortunately

I think for most people it wouldn't make sense to go out and buy an EV (or a hybrid) brand new, unless they have a new ICV (Internal combustion vehicle) of similar value, where for about the same monthly expense or cash outlay, they could skip a fuel bill totaling several hundred bucks per month.

At this stage of the game, I'd be in it for the FUN. EV's with a little bit of power are stupid-fun to drive (if you enjoy that sort of thing).

[Fishindude77]

My buddy's son in law has a Tesla and made a trip from Indianapolis to Chicago this winter during an extreme cold period. Said it was quite troublesome, batteries didn't hold up long, and it took about three charges to make the round trip.
Don't know what a recharge costs?

[disneysteve]

My buddy's son in law has a Tesla and made a trip from Indianapolis to Chicago this winter during an extreme cold period. Said it was quite troublesome, batteries didn't hold up long, and it took about three charges to make the round trip.
Don't know what a recharge costs?

The cold does shorten battery life. Living in the northeast, that would certainly be a concern here and I'm sure even more in places like Chicago or Michigan or Wisconsin where it gets far colder for far longer.

[ua_guy]

My buddy's son in law has a Tesla and made a trip from Indianapolis to Chicago this winter during an extreme cold period. Said it was quite troublesome, batteries didn't hold up long, and it took about three charges to make the round trip.
Don't know what a recharge costs?

Hmm. There's always a one-off anecdotal story about an EV not working well in the cold. Yet when I lived in the upper midwest (cold) I saw a bunch of EV's and Teslas up there and a colleague of mine bought one. Cold is a factor, but it's not prohibitive.

Here's a pretty good test! --And to see how it actually should work, as demonstrated on a Tesla. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei4qiSrPAoI&t=267s

[disneysteve]

Hmm. There's always a one-off anecdotal story about an EV not working well in the cold.

It's not just anecdotal.

AAA did a study that showed EV range drops 12% when the temp is below 20 degrees. If you're running the heater, it can drop by over 40%. Consumer Reports has given similar data. Also, charging takes longer in colder weather.

[ua_guy]

It's not just anecdotal.

AAA did a study that showed EV range drops 12% when the temp is below 20 degrees. If you're running the heater, it can drop by over 40%. Consumer Reports has given similar data. Also, charging takes longer in colder weather.

It's anecdotal in the sense that whenever an EV thread comes up, someone chimes in with an unfortunate incident of why an EV didn't work perfectly. I'm sure nobody has ever had cold-weather trouble with an ICV, hybrid, or run out of fuel in dangerously low temperatures, gelled fuel, dead battery because of a hard-starting engine, or a random internal combustion engine or accessory failure that left them on the side of the road. Never! :P

[LivingAlmostLarge]

It's anecdotal in the sense that whenever an EV thread comes up, someone chimes in with an unfortunate incident of why an EV didn't work perfectly. I'm sure nobody has ever had cold-weather trouble with an ICV, hybrid, or run out of fuel in dangerously low temperatures, gelled fuel, dead battery because of a hard-starting engine, or a random internal combustion engine or accessory failure that left them on the side of the road. Never! :P

Actually have lots of friends in very cold places think canada with Tesla. Doesn't work that well in cold when it's -45C. Yeah that's correct and not a typo. It's north of montana, michifan, everywhere. But where do they really need to go except around town? They don't use it to drive between cities and if they do it's using a gas car. Where DH grew up they had heat blocks to keep the oil moving because you couldn't start the cars otherwise. So it's half a dozen of one or 6 of another. But to say that the driving range doesn't drop substantially with cold weather is unreasonable. It drops a lot when you are running a heater in that sort of temps and driving anywhere. It drops the mpg on gas cars.

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7bc4e7b5427722b1134755058b8a8c0f285df1fea0a20dcd87d675ba1ea197ee.png

Drops like 30% at 0F. So try even colder weather. Most people live probably in mild enough climates they have no idea. But anyone in cold weather? This will not be your primary car if you are driving far in below 0 weather regularly probably I'd guess. But the canada environmental agency said the same thing. Who drives more than 80 km a day? You can easily get by in the city with a EV even in super cold weather because you are always close to charging.