Smoking the budget away

[ttt.]

Thanks for the update Mitch. I am really glad to hear that you've gotten your life on track. It does sound like your wife is smoking more than ever now thought. Is she smoked lamsot 5 full pack every day?
Last time you posted before this, you said that your wife was clsoe to a diagnosis of emphysema, how is that going
How has your daughter's asthma been?

[Mitch71]

Thanks for everyones comments and concerns, like Ive said before, effecting a lifestyle change is not easy, but Ive been proud to make the effort. It means alot to me.

LivingAlmostLarge, youve got a good point about not rushing to skip ahead in grades. We are still seriously considering, because if we did it could allow our daughter to graduate high school at 16, meaning she could potentially graduate college with a degree by 20. She has even gotten more than a little excited about the idea of even trying to finish college early by a year, and possibly graduate college by age 19.

Her mother just calls her our little Doogie Howser, but Im pretty sure she didn't get the reference because she's way too young! Seriously, though, you're right that even with home schooling, the complications of graduating high school and going to colege at 16 aren't insignificant. But both the girls seem to want to do it, so I havent said no yet.

snafu, I cannot tell you how glad I am to have really gotten after this alcohol problem. Looking bac on it, its a wonder I never turned to Our Lord God before now, but I suppose He always has His time for us to learn. This must have been mine.

But you are very right about the health insurance issues. My wife has been having trouble getting routine procedures covered when my insurance coveraged changed over at the beginning of the year with a new company. I thought Obama care was supposed to reduce discrimination for pre-existing conditons!

Now, the insurance company is telling me that they have to raise our premiums even higher because she is such a heavy smoker, which I have no idea how they would find that out, since most forms just ask you to check smoker or non-smoker. Maybe it was in her pre-screening for emphesyema. She's been really short of breath lately, has trouble making it up the stairs inside, etc. Part of me wants to scold her for her constant chainsmoking, but the other part of me is really worried about her health. She's in her early forties now, and she is probably at much higher risk for lung cancer than she wants to admit.

But what I dont understand is why do insurance companies want to start not covering routine tests that they used to cover just a year ago? Even things that have nothing to do with smoking. Why isnt that covered in the increased premiums? Its crazy and it's very upsetting to me.

ttt, I think that answers your question. We are still trying to get all of the updated tests done on my wife to see about whether she is going to be diagnosed with emphysema or not. Of course shes still smoking four or five packs a day or however much it is that she smokes these days. It seems like our DD is smoking just as much as she does, but I try to continue to let that go It actually makes me upset that she doesnt seem to care more about her health, but I know its not worth fighting with her about because she just gets angry and that anger isnt productive. But fighting with the the insurance companies is what really makes me the most mad.

Like with my daughter and her asthma, which has been taking a turn for the worse this spring. She claims the pollen and mold are much much worse this year than in recent years, and I again point out that she is smoking much more than before and that undoubtedly contributes too, but she just gives me a glare. So I stop. But then when we try to get even routine check ups done at the Dr's office, the insurance company suddenly doesnt cover certian medications for her inhaler than they used to cover, and they dont cover certian types of visits or tests, or charge even larger co-pays for. What gives? Why did United Health Care's evli-insurance people decide that they suddenly want to start gve worse care at higher prices than ever before?

Im convinced these insurance companies must all be greedy profiteers, making money hand over fist, and that this Obama care is just part of their racket. I thought Obamacare was supposed to try to do something about the insurance coverage and cost situation, but from what I can tell its only gotten worse these past few years. Why doesnt anyone care about what these insurance crooks are doing? Why doesnt there seem anyway to stop them? Why do certian procedures have to cost 20% more than they did last year, which was 20% more than the year before, which was 20% more than the year before?

How is a family supposed to keep on budget and keep finances and costs in check, with spiraling health insurance costs like this? I dont want to get on a soap box, but I have been trying to hear the President's side out on this and I have tried to be open minded and moderate about this, like alot of things. But from what I can tell, my health insurance coverage has just gotten worse and worse.

[ttt.]

Mitch:
I totally knwo what you mean. I have United Health Care too and they don't really seem interested in helping. My significant other has a slightly different insurance plan and she now has a lot of copays that she didn't have before and is finding that doctors have to completely turn her away (or she has to pay thousands in cash to be seen) that took her last year. When she called to find out why they told her it was because she didn't use her insurance enough. So basically, because she chose to only go to the doctor when she needs it, she get's reduced benefits for when she does actually need it.

Do you think your wife and daughter are reaching 5 or more packs a day almost every day now?
Do they both still chainsmoke 4 or 5 in a row without a break, and then wait 20-30 minutes to repeat the cycle?
Does your daughter have a frequent cough throughout the day like she did last spring?
Can you tell me more about what her cough is like?

[Mitch71]

Well, its been an eventful spring with out family, but I'm proud to say we made our budget last month and were actually able to pay our federal taxes owed from savings for the first time in three years! I cannot tell you how relieved it makes me to not have to have $5,000 or more in debt to the IRS lingering over your head, getting paid on, little by little each month. Of course, now I have new financial headaches in the form of spiralling medical bills, but more on that later.

Secondly, on the bright side, our daughter just finished her school semester this week, yesterday actually, and due to the miracles of home schooling and Adderall, she has made straight As again. I think getting her away from the wrong crowd at her other school has made an immeasurable difference in the quality of her life, and ours too. Her getting treatment has been such a difference maker, and while shes not without a few bad habits, as we all can be from time to time, its been really encouraging to see her turn the corner.

Although while I'd love to be able to report that there was some progress made on the health front, specifically with respect whether they were smoking all the time, as ttt asked about, Im sad to say that they are. As far as specific numbers, I can't say for certian, but I think my wife is probably smoking about five packs a day now. My daughter keeps pace with her as well, and if it weren't for alternating use of discount tobacco stores and the rolling equipment recomended by others on here, the costs of their habit would surely be breaking the bank. I would have liked to report that my daughters asthma and cough have gotten better as we start to move out of full bloom spring pollen season, but here lately these past two weeks she's come down with a very heavy, wet sounding cough that sounds almost like bronchitis. Of course, you can't tell her that, and she is stubborn as her mother about not wanting to go to see the doctor, which is why her mother has had a sinus infection that won't go away for the past five years.

More disturbing, my wife had a mini stroke just last week, and she actually passed out at home while I was at work, but thankfully my daughter acted fast and called 911. They've been running a number of tests on her, and they have found that she has high blood pressure and that inside her nasal/sinus cavity she has some sort of tumor.

They havent been able to schedule a biopsy yet to know if the tumor is malignant / cancerous or not, so I'm just holding my breath and hoping that she doesnt have sinus or nasal cancer, while we try to get that scheduled. Right now, all I can do is pray for her health.

The Lord has watched over her thus far, and our family is trusting in Him to guide us through this.

Its tempting for me to want to chastise my wife's constant smoking as the cause of her nasal tumor, but its probably unproductive. I proud that I am able to recognize that even if I were to try to make an issue of it, it wouldnt change the fact that she still has a tumor. Moreover, I'm pretty sure that all her worry has only made her more dependant upon her crutch of cigarette smoking, as it seems like shes been smoking more than ever before. Meanwhile, I can tell that her mothers health problems have been worrying our daughter as well, because she has become quite the sympathy smoker with her mother, lighting up whenever she lights up, and the two of them just generally becoming inseperable. Thus, while it seems clear to me that one bad habit could have contributed to my wife's health problems, I also can see how its not really healthy for our relationship for me to antagonize her and attack her about this all of the time.

The Lord has told me to turn the other cheek, and that is what I must do.

The Lord has asked me to show compassion for the sick, and to love my wife in sickness and in health, and that is what I must do.

I have found myself needing to pray alot more lately. But I believe that He will answer my prayers.


I know for certian the Health Insurance company would never answer my prayers though! Those bastards seem to want to deny every imaginable health care procedure as "not covered" for one reason or another!

I'm pretty sure the health insurance company are actual thieves. They made me pay like $1,500 out of pocket as the co-pay on the MRI of my wife's head that found the tumor, because they said that treatment of nasal tumors are not related to her treatment for her mini stroke. How ridiculous is that?

Obamacare was supposed to fix this wasn't it? Doesn't look like anything's been fixed. Everything is more expensive this year than it was last year, even routine doctors visits and check ups. Wasn't Obamacare supposed to control costs to protect the middle class americans?

How can anybody expect to keep a family budget intact when someone gets sick and has medical bills?

Its hardly shocking to learn that excessive medical bills are one of the leading causes of bankruptcy in the US?

Why do we let hospitals and doctors and pharmacutical companies have such insanely high profits built upon the backs of decent middle class working Americans? I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed a reasonable profit, but why are supposedly "non-profit" hospitals charging so much for the same procedures that apparently cost fractions less in Canada?

Why can't somebody try to actually Regulate the real costs from the health care industry the way they try to regulate the power companies and water companies and other public utilities? The idea that health care should be a purely for-profit system is really disturbing when its your wife in her early fourties being tested for cancer!

How do they expect us to be able to afford all this? There are only so many budget cuts a family can make, and we've already gone well beyond in cutting things like cable and internet, minimizing heating or AC/cooling use at the house. This winter our house was nearly 60 degrees every day, and this summer, Im sure it will be at least 80 degree, or maybe more like 85 degrees in the house most days. We'll just open more windows and try to use the ceiling fans more to cut utility bills. Both of our cars are paid for, and I have lowered the insurance premiums on both to state minimums to try to save money. I also told my daughter that she wasn't allowed to sign up for drivers ed because we couldnt afford to let her apply for a permit to get a drivers license, mainly because I can't afford to put her on the insurance. The amount of money that auto insurance companies want to insure teenagers is literally preposterous.

But their thievery pales in comparison to the health care insurance scheme. How could anyone reasonably say "No" to a test or procedure recomended by the doctor, when their loved one's life is on the line? Whether the procedure or test is covered by insurance or not, you still have to take it if you want them to have the best medical care. Or even, if you want them to have half way decent medical care. So its not a real choice. Its a false choice. Its a fake business. The idea of competition in health care is laughable.

In my business, if I don't tend to my customers, they can go elsewhere. There are dozens of comperable competitors advertising online, on tv, and around town. But with medical care, there is only one premire cancer center at the hospital in town, its the only one within 100 miles. There is another crappy hospital across town with an ER and a pediatrics wing, but thats about it, other than a few clinics scattered around. Thats not real choice.

Moreover, in my business, we have the price listed right out where you can see it. If you don't like the price, you can try to get a discount, or you can just go to see if someone else has a better price. And if they are advertising a better price in print, I will try to match it if I can. But in hospitals, they don't tell you what anything costs up front. Its not a real choice, because everyone is chosing blindly. And everything costs different depending on who your insurance company is, or who you are. They charge certian people special discount rates, while they are screwing the rest of us over.

Maybe my experiences of the last month has just embittered me beyond reason about the ridiculous nature of the health care industry's exorbanant costs, but this is just so unfair to people. How can you issue an insurance policy, say that certian things are covered when someone is paying the premiums, then say those those same things are covered because of how they were referred into the system. That makes zero sense. Either its covered or its not. And if its not, why even have health insurance to begin with?

These crooks are robbing good hardworking American families blind, and nobody seems to be willing to actually do anything about it. How can anybody budget or keep a family budget or save for the future, when these health insurance costs keep skyrocketing the way they have and the insurance companies keep refusing to pay for anything.


Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now. I guess I just needed to vent. But, I did have a serious question in there. How can people afford the necessary health care when the costs are so insanely high for anyone in the middle class? How can anyone afford to keep a budget or ever save for the future, when they get hit with health care costs that wipe out savings in a matter of weeks?

I'd love to hear answers from people on here smarter than me. Thanks again for all your time and advice, it is always appreciated. Mitch.

[ttt.]

Tahnk you for the update Mitch, it is always good to hear from you. Congradulations on meeting the budget, and on how well things are going with your daughter.
I understand your plight regarding insurance, mine seems to go up every eyar and cover less and less. I have vision insurnace but it barely seems to cover anything, I remember back when I was jobless I paid less for visits and glasses being on a sliding scale than my copays cost now. It's the same thing with doctors. I feel like the whole medical world is a rip off. Last year I had a horrible pain in my toe that I ghouth might be gout. When I went to the doctor's office it was a $30 copay, then $15 for a trial prosciption, then $30 more for a folow up. In the end they had no idea what I had, no idea what to do, and told me to just "wiat and see if it comes back and come back to us again." What a crock. I know that $74 isn't a terrible amount compared to some of your medical bills, and is less than what you use to spend in 2 days on your family's cigarettes, but it is a lot to me. My significant others insurance has gone up to, severly limiting who she can see or what she can have done, and imposing new copays. The reason? because she didn't use it enough before.
Unfortunately I am unsure of what to do to lower your medical costs. I am unsure if shopping around for another insurance company would be any better.

Does your wife exhale cigarette smoke out of her nose a lot?
Has your daughter developed the same habit?
In the past, you have said that your wife would smoke 4 or 5 cigarettes in a row, and then take a break for 30 minutes. How has that changed lately?
Is she chainsmoking 6 or 7 or 8 in a row now, or taking less of a break?
Do they still often light one cigarette off the butt of the last?
Has yoru daughter been having a lot more asthma attacks or trouble breathing?
Are they both still increasing their smoking do you think, or have they reached a plateau?

[BuckyBadger]

This thread has really become troubling and not about personal finance at all. It is now about health issues and religion.

[fifocoralsea]

I would like to add an advice that smoking is very hard to quit,i would sincerely pray for her and your problem,i would suggest that she is going to get better if you give her more serious attention and help her.

[JoeP]

This thread has really become troubling and not about personal finance at all. It is now about health issues and religion.

I agree but want to point out the irony: the OP is now complaining about how expensive things are (driving permit, insurance, etc) while all the while ignoring the elephant in the room. It would not bother me if this thread got locked; the regulars in this forum have offered advice over and over, and it is being dismissed.

[herdjohnson]

I don't post much, but I have a hard time swallowing someone complaining about healthcare costs after self admitted rampant alcoholism, weight issues, and two family members smoking a combined 10 packs a day. Isn't one of the core beliefs of AA taking responsibility for your actions. When you don't take care of yourself, these are the consequences. It's because of health decisions like these that health costs are spiraling. People want to smoke and drink and eat everything in sight, and wonder why our health system is collapsing.

Save the 1k a month you've been spending on cigarettes (probably more when you add the alcohol) for the last 3 years (at least), and you'd have an extra 36k in your pocket. That would go along way on medical bills (which likely wouldn't exist).

I just read this thread all the way through. I started out sympathetic to the OP, he was in a tough situation. But over the last 3 years he's lost any symbolance of personal responsibility. Now it's up to God? God didn't force your wife and child to become chain smokers, he didn't force you to become and alcoholic, and he didn't force you to passively sit aside while your wife and daughter destroy their bodies. And now he's not going to pay your bills.

[ttt.]

herdjohnson:
I don't remember Mitch ever saying anything about weight issues, cna you clarify?
Mitch71:
is someone in your family over weight?

[Dsquared513]

Your wife is selfish for smoking, you were selfish for drinking, and god abandoned us all a long time ago. Everyone needs to be more self reliant and put the people they love above their own selfish desires. Learn some better coping mechanisms, your life isn't hard enough to be used as any kind of excuse. And yes, I need to take this advice as much as everyone else here.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I don't know how you can complain about health insurance when you are the reason why premiums are out of control. Rampant chain smoking? Possible tumor? Direct linkages show that smoking causes cancer.

And now if anything goes wrong you'll use health insurance to get treatment and care for something that could have been prevented?

You know how insurance works? You need healthy people to pay in and NOT use it to subsidize the sick and unhealthy. But now insurance companies are trying to increase premiums for overweight and smokers because they KNOW they cost more.

I have no issue with socialized health care, I prefer it. I don't mind throwing in my "healthy" self to help others who are less fortunate. BUT seriously? You want to say health insurers are thieves when your wife chain smokes and has allowed and taught your teenage daughter to do the same?

I have two kids and if my DH did that I don't know that I could be with him. You're also lucky I don't know you in real life because if I saw a 13 year old chain smoking I'd report you to CPS.

[herdjohnson]

herdjohnson:
I don't remember Mitch ever saying anything about weight issues, cna you clarify?
Mitch71:
is someone in your family over weight?

I understand that and accept the fact that shes not willing to try to get over her cigarette addiction, just like I have often struggled with my weight and in the past I struggled with a drinking problem, both of which adversely effect my health.

Back on page 5 or 6 ttt...



I'm glad to see I'm not the only one fed up with the OP's new attitude. I'm fine with religion, even though it's not really my cup of tea. But when people shirk all personal responsibility and rely on the tried and true "it's all part of God's plan", it drives me insane. God isn't going to fix your life. It's up to you.

[ttt.]

Mitch: can you give us an update? Wouldove to know how you're doing.