Need Help with EF

[disneysteve]

One can tithe and still make headway financially, but you can't go out to eat, have cable and eat and restraunts along with it and expect to get ahead. You WILL have to make sacrifices if your priorities are an emergency fund and tithing.

I agree. If tithing is your priority, you need to arrange the rest of your life and spending around that priority.

[watsoninc]

BD, I was not saying that the church requires 10% of your income but rather that many Christians and Jewish people feel moral obligation to give tithe (10% of their income) to their church based on their interpretation of scripture. If you act against something that you believe to be correct, then you are in some respects acting against your morals hence the moral/financial logic dilemma. By telling someone who feels this way that they should decrease what their tithe, I would be telling him to do something that he believes to be wrong. I agree with DS in that there is not a logical argument that would dissuade someone who is devout and convinced that their scriptural interpretation of tithing being a requirement is correct. For someone who feels this way, it is a matter of faith not logic.

I can tell you from personal experience that some pastors will not ease a person's conscience about non-tithing, even if the individual has very little. I'm not placing a value judgment on this, merely explaining the situation. Plz don't kill the messenger.

"One can tithe and still make headway financially, but you can't go out to eat, have cable and eat and restaurants along with it and expect to get ahead. You WILL have to make sacrifices if your priorities are an emergency fund and tithing."

I agree. It all about your priorities. Afterall, tithing represents 10% of your income. If people manage the remaining 90% appropriately, most can still hit their finanical goals.

[creditcardfree]

I can tell you from personal experience that some pastors will not ease a person's conscience about non-tithing, even if the individual has very little. I'm not placing a value judgment on this, merely explaining the situation. Plz don't kill the messenger.

Thanks for your experience. It still doesn't hurt to have talk with the pastor to see what their guidance might be for a particular situation.

Keep in mind, I'm not a tither, so I do find it amusing that a pastor would not allow a member to stop tithing...some of the pastor's income comes from tithes. Conflict of interest? Maybe.

I still agree that a tithe can be made and one can work with the remaining 90% to meet their goals. So, if that is you, OP, then go for it!

[Slug]

One could argue there is also a moral obligation to provide financial security to your family and to pay one's debts in a timely manner such that the former is not put in peril (or even a slightly anxious state).

[watsoninc]

Creditcardfree,
It certainly could be a conflict of interest, especially if that church is unwilling or unable to tangibly help a person. Who knows? I believe if a church is going to insist/teach that members tithe no matter what, then they have a burden to make sure that members who need financial help receive that help from the church. Some do just that, and others don't.

[deedee421]

I agree. If tithing is your priority, you need to arrange the rest of your life and spending around that priority.

I agree with you and with creditcardfree that if tithing is a priority, then other things may need to be sacrificed. I don't want to get off topic and get into a whole debate about tithing, and only responded because I wanted to encourage OP to continue tithing if that is what he had budgeted as "charity". As you and others have suggested, there are other items that can be cut to help fund the EF.

[BlackDiamond]

I just looked up tithing. I never knew such a thing existed.

I agree with DS. There is no logical way to convince someone who is devout not to do this. I also agree that you have a moral obligation to pay your debts and family first.

[rizzmo]

One note, if your charity is your church (i.e. you are giving your tithes, and according to your numbers, this seems plausible), I do not think it is unreasonable to continue giving. A financial plan does not precedes a moral obligation IMHO. Otherwise, it doesn't appear you are a position to be giving that much, yet.

If you temporarily eliminate dinner (50)+ cable (180) + massage (50), you will have your $3000 EF in 11 months. Also, you may have to pick up a part-time job if possible, which would accelerate your plan even greater.

I though I'd weigh in on the tithing issue. First and foremost tithing only exists because of social and religious pressures. A church may say "we do not require people to tithe" but talking out the other side of there mouth they say that scripture says people need to tithe x%. Ultimately they create a situation where a person feels guilty if the don't contribute. This guilt should not exist, no one expects to work for free ... even nuns and priests.

From OP comment he and his wife combined earn an average of about $24/hr. That being said a $340 a month tithe means they are essentially working for the church around 272 hours a year for $0/hr. This is ridiculous IMHO. I don't know of any religions that allow you to buy your way into heaven (at least not anymore). If OP takes a part time job so he can make sure he can provide for his families future, does he then have to tithe a percentage of that income too?

I'm curious does the moral obligation of tithing supersede saving for retirement? If so is the church going to make up the difference between what social security provides and what the individual needs to live? We all know that they won't make up the difference. After all its not their fault you poorly planned for your future, however since social security is income the church (scripture) would expect him to tithe a percentage of that.

If a person has there financial house in order and still has more income than they need then it would be acceptable to donate money to a church, cause, charity.

[YISave]

I would not want to comment on your tithing to your church. That's a personal committment. As I look at you expenses, they don't look overboard. I would say that when my husband and I were climbing out of debt that we skipped eating out. It does add up. You can try to lower your utilities. You might try not leaving your AC or heater on when you're not there. Also, you might consider dropping cable and maybe picking up Netflix or using Redbox or Blockbuster.

We found that we had to lower our costs and looked for ways to earn more money. We sold aluminum, looked for extra jobs to do. There is much that you can do to add money to your emergency fund. It takes time.

[mommyof4]

Just a quick note re tithing: We can tithe TIME, TALENT, AND TREASURE. If you can't pay 10% (temporarily at least), do some volunteer work, volunteer at a homeless shelter one night a month, spend extra time in prayer, donate used clothes to charity, etc. Look for creative ways to share your gifts (not just financial) with others.

[watsoninc]

From OP comment he and his wife combined earn an average of about $24/hr. That being said a $340 a month tithe means they are essentially working for the church around 272 hours a year for $0/hr. This is ridiculous IMHO. I don't know of any religions that allow you to buy your way into heaven (at least not anymore). If OP takes a part time job so he can make sure he can provide for his families future, does he then have to tithe a percentage of that income too?

I'm curious does the moral obligation of tithing supersede saving for retirement?

If a person has there financial house in order and still has more income than they need then it would be acceptable to donate money to a church, cause, charity.

The main reason I brought up tithing is because I wanted the OP to know that there are some people who don't think giving tithes (10% of income) while getting out of debt is unreasonable. You may think it is "ridiculous," and that's fine. There are others who don't share your opinion, possibly the OP. I just didn't want to alienate the OP by suggesting that they had to stop tithing if they feel a moral conviction to tithe. Such a suggestion may very easily cause them to ignore all of our advice because there is no "meeting of the minds." I just wanted to let the OP know that 1) we are tolerant to his beliefs even if we don't all personally share them and 2) he and his wife can find harmony with their faith and their financial plan. Clearly, if they are to continue tithing, other things MUST be sacrificed.

Do you tithe on additional income from a 2nd/3rd job? I believe most churches that teach tithing would tell you to tithe on additional income as well.

I'm curious does the moral obligation of tithing supersede saving for retirement? Most churches that I am aware of that emphasize tithing teach both investing for retirement and tithing.

I am well aware that the purpose of this forum is not to advance one's religious agenda; I still hope that in the spirit of tolerance we don't show insensitivity to people who have different belief systems by calling their actions and beliefs ridiculous. I don't know if that helps them at all IMHO.

[rizzmo]

watsoninc thanks for your reply. Upon re-reading my post it appears that I may have been a bit to cavalier on this issue. My beliefs are not everyone’s, and I apologize if offended OP or members of the forum.

[PetMom]

The $340.00 is listed as charity.

If it was under the category of Church or Tithing then this would probably be his belief and he is willing to cut back in other areas.

I cannot find where he wrote or posted it was for the Church.

If it is charity - as hard as it might be - stop for now. Unless the Salvation Army they won't be around if you were to become penniless.

I was generous with donating to animal charities. You give them a decent good donation and sadly they obviously put your donation as 'income' on their financial projection budget and I am still literally hounded for more money. I donated to a pig sanctuary and all I got was a cute Christmas card and no guilt and begging. Now no monetary donations are going out due to EF needing rebuilding. If charities are bothering you with their money problems and ability to do their work be firm with them and tell them to stop contacting you.

I do still give clothing/books/miscellaneous to charitable organizations - that is something I do cheefully (knowing full well I could ebay some items I choose to give). Also donate time - even cleaning a place, help with Habitat for Humanity. I did some help at a community theater and got some free tickets. Help a neighbor with occasional free babysitting, etc...so many non money ways to give.

With our taxes we pay (and it is good to know this at this time of year) we already give quite a lot to programs that help the poor and the more we pay in taxes the more we are giving.

Others have covered the obvious of cutting out eating out, trying to get the massages out of the budget quickly, grocery budgeting, etc...

Once your EF is safe and full then you can redo the budget and go back to charity giving.