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What are your thoughts on income inequality?

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  • #76
    #2 has more brainpower because he's actively THINKING and planning for the future versus the instant gratitude guy. Like a teenager that thinks a little and pulls on the condom versus the guy that just plows right in there.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Singuy View Post

      True to an extent. I argue the true barrier to wealth is a lack of ambition.

      Imagine two people both just got hired to mow grass. One will take his paycheck and relax on that Friday by blowing half of it on booze and fun because that person feel they deserved it for such a hard 2 weeks worth of work. The other one saves the money with a goal of getting his own truck and equipment one day. Way too many people falls into camp one...cursing the CEO of the company for long hours, low pay, and greedy for taking too much profits/not paying his fair share of taxes. I believe both has similar muscles and brain power. It's really a matter of the person circumventing temptation that ends up winning.
      Of course, "winning" is a purely subjective term. My son, a rising sophomore in college, is a person of outstanding character and motivation. He is well thought of in his university community and among his peers. But he has no particular desire to be wealthy: He thinks he would like to be a school teacher and coach golf. He likes to fly fish and would like a break each summer to do a little of that. He wants to have a family in a nice house and in a smaller town. He wants to be involved in a church. So his idea of "winning" is entirely different than those chasing the dollars. Dollars aren't what motivates him.

      He and his sister will inherit plenty enough to fund both of their retirements, so no particular worry there.
      How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by TexasHusker View Post

        Of course, "winning" is a purely subjective term. My son, a rising sophomore in college, is a person of outstanding character and motivation. He is well thought of in his university community and among his peers. But he has no particular desire to be wealthy: He thinks he would like to be a school teacher and coach golf. He likes to fly fish and would like a break each summer to do a little of that. He wants to have a family in a nice house and in a smaller town. He wants to be involved in a church. So his idea of "winning" is entirely different than those chasing the dollars. Dollars aren't what motivates him.

        He and his sister will inherit plenty enough to fund both of their retirements, so no particular worry there.
        I love this. Too often people define success in monetary terms. Being happy and satisfied with your life is a far better measure of success than how much you have in your bank account. Some of the happiest, most content people I know don't make much money but they love what they do, have a nice home, and a loving and supportive family.
        Steve

        * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
        * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
        * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

        Comment


        • #79
          I don't think these companies have been mentioned yet. But what about Costco for example...

          They are nothing extraordinary, just a well managed supermarket. Their employees aren't particularly over or under skilled. But the company can manage to pay labor workers on average like ~$20 ish an hour. Actually just saw an article today that they are bumping up starting pay to $14 an hour.

          The point to focus on, is Costco does this and is a successful company with a good reputation, quality, price, and profit.

          If I'm not mistaken, trader Joe's pays their employees really well. And they're just a grocery store. Nothing you can't get anywhere else.

          ​​​​​​It's win win when prices are competitive, quality is above average, and the company is making money while paying their workers well is something everyone should support.

          Minimum wage is a sticky issue... People should do the right thing before our government forces us to make laws upon ourselves.

          Forcing companies to pay is not the right idea. I think it is wise as a consumer to drive demand to support companies doing the right thing. That should help weed out the poorly managed companies not properly distributing their resources and causing more stress and less joy.

          Policy wise, people seem to respond to opportunity. Our capitalism heavy economy responds well to individuals with opportunities. I think it would be wise for people to brainstorm how to either increase financially lucrative opportunities to people, or simply Target to lower the barriers for job/training/career to people (geographically too).

          I heard Chase and Bank of America are bumping their minimum wages to$20 an hour in a year or two. That's pretty wild considering how larger the companies are. It must hint to how ubsurd the profit must be from their operations. I would feel a bit better supporting almost any company if knowing they pour some of their surplus resources into paying the ground level employees.

          At least we know some of these companies can pay like people with like skills, more pay. If the company is responsible and managed well enough to pursue doing what is proper.
          ​​​​

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          • #80
            We are inching up our wages, as well as our prices. When stuff costs more, stuff then costs more.

            Companies aren't going to do anything out of a sense of responsibility. Shareholders don't care about responsibility. They want a dividend and growth. Responsibility is for someone else. Shareholders are the owners of these companies, not some boss man somewhere.

            Companies will pay more to retain and keep good people in order to protect their bottom line and their shareholders. If they are losing good people to other companies because of pay, they will either increase pay or accept a lower caliber worker.

            At my franchises, we pay well above the market. As a result, we tend not to have a lot of turnover, which means our customers are familiar with us, which means they stick with us, and they hopefully come back more often. It's a trickle-down effect. Meanwhile several competitors are trying to pay minimum or possibly a bit more to squeeze out more profit, they will tend to charge more than us for services, and they have absolute incompetents representing their brand. That is almost as good for us as us doing a good job delivering our brand! Who needs marketing when your competitors are a joke?
            Last edited by TexasHusker; 06-16-2019, 08:05 PM.
            How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

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            • #81
              send them a nice card and tell em to keep up the good work!

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by TexasHusker View Post

                Companies aren't going to do anything out of a sense of responsibility. Shareholders don't care about responsibility. They want a dividend and growth. Responsibility is for someone else. Shareholders are the owners of these companies, not some boss man somewhere.
                ​​​​​​Yes most shareholders react only to returns. And consumers drive all the returns in retail companies. If consumers chose to support responsible companies that use good corporate citizenship, and ignore those that tend to underpay, it would reinforce the better team over the worse.

                People seem to be shameless for profit. I'm not discriminate in my investments as a shareholders. But as a consumer of goods, I do my best to support companies doing the right thing. And avoid companies that are underpaying or just straight up exploiting people.


                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by amarowsky View Post
                  I don't think these companies have been mentioned yet. But what about Costco for example...

                  They are nothing extraordinary, just a well managed supermarket. Their employees aren't particularly over or under skilled. But the company can manage to pay labor workers on average like ~$20 ish an hour. Actually just saw an article today that they are bumping up starting pay to $14 an hour.

                  The point to focus on, is Costco does this and is a successful company with a good reputation, quality, price, and profit.

                  If I'm not mistaken, trader Joe's pays their employees really well. And they're just a grocery store

                  I heard Chase and Bank of America are bumping their minimum wages to$20 an hour in a year or two. That's pretty wild considering how larger the companies are. It must hint to how ubsurd the profit must be from their operations.

                  At least we know some of these companies can pay like people with like skills, more pay. If the company is responsible and managed well enough to pursue doing what is proper.
                  ​​​​

                  It is VERY difficult to compare companies unless you were/ are in their system.

                  I find JOBS are like insurance you often do not KNOW how good or bad it is until you USE/work it.

                  Even in my new temp job a person applied and is driving a LONG way based on " I heard they pay X once you get on as regular employee" but they did not know they just shed or transferred to lower cost area about 400 regular jobs and are really relying on a temp system to do things and almost no one is being converted to regular employee.

                  I worked at a bank they paid well per hour but had expensive/ almost no benefits. turned down a job at Costco for same reason.

                  I also worked at a store that was so proud to tell customers and once a local news story " we pay over minimum wage".
                  Often making some think they were generous and cared for employees when the truth was they started .10 cents over minimum. They did not lie..... just it was not the Big picture people assumed.
                  I remember so many customers coming in saying they were so glad they were supporting a "good" company . If asked, I told them the truth and many felt differently.

                  Some places do pay better without gutting benefits or other limitations and that is their choice.
                  It is often their choice as well to be very picky in whom they hire and shed ASAP many that do not earn it.
                  .
                  Pay more - get more from employees often does not happen. So many people simply assume all those people are hard workers getting the shaft.
                  That is often why it come to government trying to force things to get those employees that at $10 are overpaid.... for their PERSONAL effort.





                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by amarowsky View Post

                    ​​​​​​Yes most shareholders react only to returns. And consumers drive all the returns in retail companies. If consumers chose to support responsible companies that use good corporate citizenship, and ignore those that tend to underpay, it would reinforce the better team over the worse.

                    People seem to be shameless for profit. I'm not discriminate in my investments as a shareholders. But as a consumer of goods, I do my best to support companies doing the right thing. And avoid companies that are underpaying or just straight up exploiting people.

                    Sheeple are by nature selfish. It is an inborn trait to all. As for supporting companies "doing the right thing", that's great. You might also think about supporting companies that are paying for your local police and firefighters.

                    Most sheeple don't have a clue that they are effectively killing their local tax base by purchasing everything off of Amazon to save a few dollars. Amazon is to local retailers what WalMart was to local retailers 30 years ago. Sears is almost done, as is Toys R Us, JC Penny, and a host of others.

                    But your local government, schools, parks, recreation, police, and fire departments are funded either by property taxes or sales taxes, or a combination thereof. When these retailers go out of business, it is gutting your local tax sources, as Amazon isn't collecting, nor remitting, local or state taxes. And obviously when you have scores of employees being laid off, you have more houses for sale and apartments vacant, which translates into decreasing property tax receipts.

                    Amazon has gotten so big here that each Christmas season, UPS is now renting a local parking lot to park large trucks in for packages, and they are literally shuttling packages throughout the neighborhood on golf carts for about 6 weeks each year. I first thought that was a nifty thing. Now I realize it is a massive threat to my municipality and local economy in general. So I try to do my part and buy local.
                    Last edited by TexasHusker; 06-17-2019, 04:53 AM.
                    How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Smallsteps View Post


                      It is VERY difficult to compare companies unless you were/ are in their system.

                      I find JOBS are like insurance you often do not KNOW how good or bad it is until you USE/work it.

                      Even in my new temp job a person applied and is driving a LONG way based on " I heard they pay X once you get on as regular employee" but they did not know they just shed or transferred to lower cost area about 400 regular jobs and are really relying on a temp system to do things and almost no one is being converted to regular employee.

                      I worked at a bank they paid well per hour but had expensive/ almost no benefits. turned down a job at Costco for same reason.

                      I also worked at a store that was so proud to tell customers and once a local news story " we pay over minimum wage".
                      Often making some think they were generous and cared for employees when the truth was they started .10 cents over minimum. They did not lie..... just it was not the Big picture people assumed.
                      I remember so many customers coming in saying they were so glad they were supporting a "good" company . If asked, I told them the truth and many felt differently.

                      Some places do pay better without gutting benefits or other limitations and that is their choice.
                      It is often their choice as well to be very picky in whom they hire and shed ASAP many that do not earn it.
                      .
                      Pay more - get more from employees often does not happen. So many people simply assume all those people are hard workers getting the shaft.
                      That is often why it come to government trying to force things to get those employees that at $10 are overpaid.... for their PERSONAL effort.




                      To add to this; I've worked in retail on and of my entire working life. Some companies were good, some not so much. The truth is that some of these retailers are paying decent, but becoming a full time employee is often an uphill battle.

                      $15 an hour is nice, but if you only get 25 hours a week and don't have benefits, not so much anymore.
                      Brian

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by TexasHusker View Post
                        Amazon isn't collecting, nor remitting, local or state taxes.
                        They didn't use to but they do now for the most part. Almost everything I've bought on Amazon in the past year or so has had sales tax charged. I'm not sure what determines it exactly but it used to be nothing was taxed. Now almost everything is.
                        Steve

                        * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                        * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                        * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by bjl584 View Post

                          To add to this; I've worked in retail on and of my entire working life. Some companies were good, some not so much. The truth is that some of these retailers are paying decent, but becoming a full time employee is often an uphill battle.

                          $15 an hour is nice, but if you only get 25 hours a week and don't have benefits, not so much anymore.
                          This is very true, as is the comment about higher pay often being accompanied by lower benefits. People like to look at one factor: the hourly wage. You really need to look at the total compensation package. At my job, I have great health insurance and dental insurance, life insurance for 2X my income, reimbursement of gym membership, 7 weeks of PTO, and several other benefits. All of that stuff is worth money. When I look at what I'm earning, I also need to add in the value of all of those things, not simply focus on the hourly rate.

                          Many places will pay more but keep everyone below full time hours so they don't need to provide benefits. Would you rather make a couple dollars more per hour but only get 24 hours/week or would you prefer to make a bit less, get 40 hours consistently, and have health insurance?
                          Steve

                          * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                          * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                          * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by TexasHusker View Post
                            We are inching up our wages, as well as our prices. When stuff costs more, stuff then costs more.

                            Companies aren't going to do anything out of a sense of responsibility. Shareholders don't care about responsibility. They want a dividend and growth. Responsibility is for someone else. Shareholders are the owners of these companies, not some boss man somewhere.

                            Companies will pay more to retain and keep good people in order to protect their bottom line and their shareholders. If they are losing good people to other companies because of pay, they will either increase pay or accept a lower caliber worker.

                            At my franchises, we pay well above the market. As a result, we tend not to have a lot of turnover, which means our customers are familiar with us, which means they stick with us, and they hopefully come back more often. It's a trickle-down effect. Meanwhile several competitors are trying to pay minimum or possibly a bit more to squeeze out more profit, they will tend to charge more than us for services, and they have absolute incompetents representing their brand. That is almost as good for us as us doing a good job delivering our brand! Who needs marketing when your competitors are a joke?
                            Wait a moment here, doesn't ethical behavior actually increase profits in the long run?
                            james.c.hendrickson@gmail.com
                            202.468.6043

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by james.hendrickson View Post

                              Wait a moment here, doesn't ethical behavior actually increase profits in the long run?
                              Who said anything about ethics? It isn't unethical to offer a lower wage if that gets you the staff you need to run your business. If it doesn't, then you need to offer more. Supply and demand.
                              Steve

                              * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                              * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                              * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Wages are set by the market in most cases. When I first took over a division we had 221 employees. The company was high tech manufacturing. Our voluntary turnover rate was over 14% and that is very expensive. Time to hire was over 60 days. Nobody wanted to work there and then if we did get someone, nobody wanted to stay. So I asked HR to find out why. Started entry and exit interviews and surveys. Pay was part of it. We were already paying above min wage, but not keeping up with the other manufacturing companies in the area. So we raised average pay. We hired more and faster, but still had a high turnover rate. And high call in rates (calling in sick). Reason why? No training, no growth, no vision. Turns out, a lot of these workers wanted to be part of something more than just showing up to work.

                                So we started all hands meeting with me, lunch and learns, skip level meetings and implemented standardized training and rating systems with a clear path for growth. This helped the most. Our turnover was low and our productivity went through the roof. We were doing the same production with 168 people that used to require 221 people. And quality went to 100%. On time delivery went from 23% to 100%. First pass yields went from 20% to over 80%. All of these improvements more than paid for the higher wages, but the real testament was the quality of life for the workers. They wanted to work there.

                                And people started to advance up the ranks. Line workers were becoming supervisors. Supervisors were becoming managers. Managers were becoming directors and directors were becoming VP's. The beautiful thing was we were part of a megacorp that had a lot of opportunity for these folks, so there was no log jam at the top. I was always sad to see a great person go somewhere else, but a very proud poppa that they were moving up and out to do more great things.

                                If you forced me to raise my minimum wage to $15, I would do it but I would also make it clear that will not solve anything. While we would start people at $12/hour, they could be at $14-$16 / hour in 3-6 months if they wanted to. If they didn't want to, they either left on their own or we made room for someone that did want to. But you had to earn it. Wasn't a very high bar, but just showing up and fogging a mirror was not going to get you a pay raise.

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