Frugality is a tough sell

[lrjohnson]

Re: Frugality is a tough sell

For some people I know environmentalism is an easier sell....there are trust fund babies in our College town living very frugally because they are wanting to consume less, own less, use less. I think it's funny and welcome into the frugal fold at the same time. A lot of my frugality is based on focussing on reduced consumption; I don't have debt and could spend more than I do, but I don't choose to, not to deprive myself but to avoid using more "stuff" than I need to.

[amberfocus]

Re: Frugality is a tough sell

One of my roommates... I cannot discuss money with her. She makes absolutely hideous financial decisions that are hurting her chances to live the life she wants long term (home ownership, retirement, etc.) so she can have what she wants now.

Word. My roommate, while not in significant debt, does maintain a car that leeches more money per month than rent. We're talking $600 to $700 here. He might as well screw the lease and go live in his car!

Add in the constant influx of shiny new toys and gadgets, and his entire paycheck is POOF! each month.

I just watch and chuckle.

Use your roommate to remind yourself of what you should not be doing, and reinforce that what you're doing is better.

After all, a smart man learns from his own mistakes, but a wise man learns from the mistakes of others.

~mimi

[ren]

Re: Frugality is a tough sell

Amen, Mimi. I have to admit, I was awfully damn tempted when I found out that my employer gets discounts on several brands of new cars, but then I think about how spendy roommate has to send half a paycheck a month on her two vehicle loans and go, "Naaaaaaaaaah."

[MonkeyMama]

Re: Frugality is a tough sell

For some people I know environmentalism is an easier sell....there are trust fund babies in our College town living very frugally because they are wanting to consume less, own less, use less. I think it's funny and welcome into the frugal fold at the same time. A lot of my frugality is based on focussing on reduced consumption; I don't have debt and could spend more than I do, but I don't choose to, not to deprive myself but to avoid using more "stuff" than I need to.

OMG I wish. That is my other pet peeve with people around me of late - no respect for environment int he least. I honestly think frugalness would be an asier sell around here. Okay frankly neither would fly. Everyone aorund here wants to consume more, own more. Aaaaah, maybe I should move.

[MonkeyMama]

Re: Frugality is a tough sell

It's not what you make, but what you keep. I just saw that somewhere around here and sums it up pretty well. Very wise words. I think that is my new motto.

[tgavin71]

Re: Frugality is a tough sell

Of course frugality is a tough sell. Just look at what your up against. Marketing budgets of billions of dollars bombarding us with messages.

[Duchesse]

Re: Frugality is a tough sell

Frugality is an easy sell, as long as you're selling it to a bargain hunter.

[syracusa]

Re: Frugality is a tough sell

Oh, I have a feeling this thread is going to be very theraputic for me.

One of my roommates... I cannot discuss money with her. She makes absolutely hideous financial decisions that are hurting her chances to live the life she wants long term (home ownership, retirement, etc.) so she can have what she wants now.

• She has a car loan and a motorcycle loan (car is an SUV bought used, bike was bought new).
• The SUV's radiator needs replacing, so instead of shelling out the $600 or so it would cost to replace it, she's decided she's going to get another car, despite the fact that she owes about $2000 more than the SUV is worth.
• She ran her credit cards up over a couple years to the tune of about $4500 and did a consolidation loan last spring.
• She has since run up another $4500 on her cards.
• She has 0% financing on her mattress that she's not going to have paid off by the end of the 0% period.
• She regularly pays $250+ a month for her cell phone, but won't switch to a plan with more minutes because 'those cost too much'.
• She's going on a week long cruise with a friend to the Bahamas next spring, also financed.
• And her latest brilliant plan is that she's taken out another $5000 loan so she can get a breast enlargement.

Yes, she's financing a boob job. This last loan will put her in debt roughly equal to her annual gross income; she'll probably exceed it if she does end up getting a new car. This is before she starts planning her dream wedding scheduled for spring 2008. Her fiance is just as bad as she is. I really hope they see the light at some point, but I've tried talking to her (well, I tried pointing out that now might not be the time for the boob job, but she 'needs' her new boobs for the cruise) and she doesn't want to hear about it.

In fact, a couple months ago I was saying how buying a new computer was really hurting me (the old one was out of warranty and the fan was going) and she said, "Yeah, but you can't complain, because your car is paid off and you don't have any real expenses like I do." I had to bite my tongue so hard not to say that I made a decision to live within my means instead of living in debt, because I couldn't live the way she does. I may be a 'judgemental b****', but at least I can sleep at night.

So I don't talk about money with her. She doesn't want to hear it, I get frustrated, it's not worth it. I just make sure to cash her check for rent the day I get it, because even she admits that any money in her checking account will be spent.

I feel bad for ranting, but watching an otherwise intelligent, disciplined person (she used to be a Marine and she's fabulously good at her job now) dig a hole like this and then tell herself that this is something that happened to her, not something she did to herself, is so very frustrating. I'd get her a Dave Ramsey or Suze Orman book for Christmas, but she'd probably beat the crap out of me.

I have heard about such cases but I honestly thought those were exagerations for making a point. Honestly, I have a hard time believing that people like these actually DO exist.

Having grown up in a socialist system (Eastern Europe), I am grateful for one thing today: that the system had trained us to be happy with less and to know how to have major fun without consuming.
I am simply used to "less" in terms of material things and thankfully, I never fell pray to that post-socialism material hunger that a lot of people in those countries acquired after socialism was demolished and the consumerist system attacked.
I like smaller houses (I would hate having to deal with the upkeep of a ginormous McMansion, the kind you see everywhere in the US. - let alone that most of them are bad taste and poor quality). I like fewer (but better) clothes. We do not want a second car. I love, love, love public transportation - what a luxury to have someone else drive the train while you read fancy-schmency, mind-opening books without worrying about traffic or wasted time.

Yes, frugality has many facets. Unfortunately, Americans are conditioned to equate fun with consuming and shopping - which makes for a pretty sad society overall - but a darn comfortable one for those few who can use its overall prosperity to lead a reasonably coushy life without consuming like mad.
This PROVIDED they have a close group of friends and family with stable local ties and similar lifestyle with whom to share quality of life.
This can be hard because ...well...Americans no longer form true "local ties" and if you are an immigrant trying to integrate into the larger US culture, the system will eventually suck you in.
Americans' friends and family move at the drop of a hat if some corporation promises them 100 dollars more a month at the opposite corner of the country. So you end up getting your kicks from shopping, consuming and acquiring - just like everyone else.

The alternative: bring your family and friends from the part of the world you're coming from and live happily ever after.

[PrincessPerky]

Re: Frugality is a tough sell

You gotta find the right trigger....everyone has there own, but no one will be enlightened without the right one.

some people in AA meetings talk about what made them 'see the light' and for every person there there is a new stroy, I think the same is true of frugality, for every non consumer there are several new reasons to be such..untill a person sees their reason they wont change.

[ren]

Re: Frugality is a tough sell

I have heard about such cases but I honestly thought those were exagerations for making a point. Honestly, I have a hard time believing that people like these actually DO exist.

Oh no, she's quite real. Had her pre-op for the boob job on Friday.

I agree with the point you make about having a local network to depend on -- my family may be 2000+ miles away, but I have been very fortunate to make good friends here. They give me something to do other than spend money on useless crap.

[rduell]

Re: Frugality is a tough sell

Frugality is a tough sale but so is reality.

I have a meeting tonight for our church's budget. For the past 5 years they have regularly budgeted $20,000 OVER what they take in! This is all necessary stuff, but something's got to give. They had sold the parsonage when the current pastor and his wife built a house. The extra money was put in a "savings" account to be saved for housing for a future pastor. That money is now gone because that's what's been making up the difference each month.

Would you budget $20,000 above what you know you'll be making? I wouldn't, and I don't think the church should either.

I probably won't be a popular person, but I believe it's irresponsible to continue to budget what isn't coming in. I've been told we have to have faith. I believe in faith, but I also believe in being realistic.

It's not going to be an easy evening.

[Bookie]

Re: Frugality is a tough sell

Lots of luck with your presentation.

I keep the books for a little non-profit that's operating on a faith-based budget. They've been overspending their income by about $150 a month for the past several years and covering the annual deficit with reserves. I keep pointing out the obvious, and everyone agrees that something needs to change. Nothing does. The board members serve for a single year, so they can always pass the problem along. I've stopped trying to be the voice crying out in the wilderness. It doesn't do any good.

"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig."

[miclason]

Re: Frugality is a tough sell

Frugality is a tough sell because today's society sees it as deprivation....I deserve the best, why should I not get it? (er, because you cannot afford it??)... most of the teenagers I know, when asked what they would like to do for a living, they say: have a great job with a big salary at a very nice building, with a nice office and, if possible, a company car! (doing WHAT?)...oh! whatever...

[Broken Arrow]

Re: Frugality is a tough sell

It's amazing, but I've actually had the opposite question posed to me. I'll say something like, "I'm trying to save money."

"Why?"

"So that I can be financially free."

"To do what?"

"Well, whatever I feel like."

"Like what?"

"What do you mean what?"

"Well, you want to save money. And then what?"

"And then what" indeed!

That question has got me wondering for a little bit. Then I realized why my friends couldn't understand me. I think it is because they don't sense the weight of crushing debt. It has to be, or else, they would gone, "Oh, so you don't have to be stressed out over money anymore. Yeah, I get it."

My overarching goal with money is fairly simple actually. I just don't want to be stressed out over money anymore. Instead, I just want to enjoy the simple life; getting to wake up well-rested, work and mostly enjoy what I do, come home to a nice meal without having to worry about whether I can afford it or not, and be able to sleep soundly.

Sadly, the friend that asked me that question still equate living well to having material things. Nice car, nice pad somewhere, and lots of money to throw around and party. So, I suppose I can see why the idea of saving but not spending it would seem kind of alien to him.

[Gruntina]

Re: Frugality is a tough sell

[QUOTE=Broken Arrow]

My overarching goal with money is fairly simple actually. I just don't want to be stressed out over money anymore. Instead, I just want to enjoy the simple life; getting to wake up well-rested, work and mostly enjoy what I do, come home to a nice meal without having to worry about whether I can afford it or not, and be able to sleep soundly.




It’s so nice when you can actually share that same goal with someone. It’s the first time I been in a relationship where we are just so happy to sit outside or go for a moonlight stroll in the trees and enjoy the simple life. But again, he is not a social bug and I believe that characteristic makes a huge difference in my case. I can be a social bug and I do love hanging out with people and friends but he keeps me grounded and not spend so much money on gatherings. When I limit my time with others, its never a problem because my bf is a pleasure to be with.