Are we in a Civil War?

[kork13]

As I stated 3 months ago, the current situation is not even remotely a civil war, and to characterize it as such is a disservice to the people voicing their legitimate concerns. We are seeing civil unrest & uprising against perceived & actual inequities in some of our nation's largest cities, mostly featuring only protests, most of which are peaceful/non-violent (yes, with limited but notable exceptions). But outside of those large, dense urban areas, there is nothing to indicate any sort of chaos, "civil war," or even disquiet. Life is moving on as normal as is possible while still under pandemic conditions. I understand that it may seem romantic & dramatic to label as "civil war" the 1-2 dozen cities with significant protests ongoing which are failing to address their systemic issues, or our nation failing to help in doing so. But by labeling it as such gives protesters the label of "rebels" and "revolutionaries" seeking to overthrow the structure of our nation. Not the case -- they're seeking equity & fair treatment. But that's how such a label misconstrues the facts of what going on, and disguises legitimacy as contemptible revolution to be crushed.

Look at the countries with actual, ongoing civil wars (some ongoing for decades). Civil war demolishes a nation from within. Life ceases to continue with any sense of normalcy. Yemen is a prime example. It has been in civil war since 2015, and had become totally impoverished, with disease, death, violence, and chaos literally on every street corner. In fact, nearly all of the world's most impoverished nations are actively or recently in civil war. Anyone who takes a step back from the emotions of our situation to look at it objectively & academically can only see that we're nowhere remotely approaching any level of "civil war" in our country.

[james.hendrickson]

Mod note: moved thread to "everything else financial", as is a political topic.

Please remember: respectful discussion is encouraged and welcomed.

[disneysteve]

I don't know how to respond without saying anything political because this simply isn't an apolitical issue. I think at least the near-term future will depend very heavily on the outcome of the election. I'll leave it at that.

[srblanco7]

Sort of.
The war was more about State's rights versus Federal control.
The slavery issue was more about the economic system of slavery and the political control over it.
The modern interpretation is a clouded version of actual history.

Respectfully disagree with all of this. Civil War was about the right to continue the "institution of slavery".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/five-myths-about-why-the-south-seceded/2011/01/03/ABHr6jD_story.html

[mumof2]

I feel like we are currently in a civil war right now albeit not full scale war but at the very beginning of one.[/QUOTE]
I have to say I live on the other side of the world and it looks like the beginning of a war to me...I am afraid it is going to get worse and all hell is going to break loose...I am hoping i am wrong but it doesn't look good

[QuarterMillionMan]

100 days protests/riots in Portland. NY still ongoing. Kenosha recently. Right wing vs left wings in the streets. The crazy antifa guy who killed a man in Portland then got killed by the US Marshalls said he felt like we are in a civil war. At what point do we go from protest, rioting, looting, killings and cross into a civil war? I feel like we are currently in a civil war right now albeit not full scale war but at the very beginning of one.

[Fishindude77]

Need to shut off your news for a few days and take a break.
There has never been a more prosperous, safer, healthier, wealthier time to be alive in the world than right now.

The media shows a few "hot spots" of trouble around the nation / globe and tries to get us believing there is trouble and problems everywhere. For some reason, good news and happiness doesn't sell in the media.

[bjl584]

The US Civil War was essentially over the right to discriminate. One side wanted to be able to treat blacks differently than whites. The other side wanted to make the words of the Declaration of Independence a reality: All men are created equal. We know how that battle ended.

Sort of.
The war was more about State's rights versus Federal control.
The slavery issue was more about the economic system of slavery and the political control over it.
The modern interpretation is a clouded version of actual history.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Not even remotely. As ~bs said, it's more accurately pockets of civil uprising. There's alot of factors of a civil way that are not happening, and have no indication that they will.

Calling protests & even riots a civil war is hugely over-dramatizing the situation. This isn't to say the news media won't apply that label, but as a group, they've already long-proven their ignorance of & disregard for accurate depictions of circumstances when it doesn't fit their preferred narrative..... So I wouldn't put it past them.

The situation is showing signs of cooling off, at least with the worst of the riots/looting/violence/vandalism starting to die off. What's going to decide what happens next is how the states & cities address the top issue of police violence & accountability, followed more slowly by the continuing discussion about race in our culture. But cultural change is hard, and takes years.

Maybe but i hope some peaceful protests can continue? Maybe we'll protest more than just race. But also the inequity that is rising in the country.

[disneysteve]

The situation is showing signs of cooling off, at least with the worst of the riots/looting/violence/vandalism starting to die off. What's going to decide what happens next is how the states & cities address the top issue of police violence & accountability, followed more slowly by the continuing discussion about race in our culture. But cultural change is hard, and takes years.

I agree with all of this. The rioting and looting was just a bunch of knuckleheads, as our governor would call them, causing trouble just for the sake of causing trouble. It had nothing to do with the actual issues.

What is so disheartening is the stories and videos that continue to come out of police misbehavior. Even knowing full well that the eyes of the nation are on them, they still can't do the right thing. Heck, even little kids know to behave when mommy is watching.

We are dealing with the same issues over and over and over again and it's been going on for many decades. I don't know what it will take to change it.

[kork13]

Not even remotely. As ~bs said, it's more accurately pockets of civil uprising. There's alot of factors of a civil way that are not happening, and have no indication that they will.

Calling protests & even riots a civil war is hugely over-dramatizing the situation. This isn't to say the news media won't apply that label, but as a group, they've already long-proven their ignorance of & disregard for accurate depictions of circumstances when it doesn't fit their preferred narrative..... So I wouldn't put it past them.

The situation is showing signs of cooling off, at least with the worst of the riots/looting/violence/vandalism starting to die off. What's going to decide what happens next is how the states & cities address the top issue of police violence & accountability, followed more slowly by the continuing discussion about race in our culture. But cultural change is hard, and takes years.

[disneysteve]

Right now there isn't any armed conflict.

That's somewhat debatable. You have one side firing rubber bullets and tear gas and swinging batons at the other side. And there has certainly been a great deal of physical conflict including the most recent case of murder that set off the current unrest.

[james.hendrickson]

Question: Are we in a civil war?

Answer: No. According to Websters a civil war is "a war between opposing groups of citizens of the same country". Right now there isn't any armed conflict.

If you're concerned about this, check out Barton Biggs book, Wealth, War and Wisdom. It has a really excellent discussion of the impact of the second world war on bond and equity markets as well as some practical observations how to preserve wealth during armed conflict.

[disneysteve]

The US Civil War was essentially over the right to discriminate. One side wanted to be able to treat blacks differently than whites. The other side wanted to make the words of the Declaration of Independence a reality: All men are created equal. We know how that battle ended.

Today, 155 years later, we are once again (still really) fighting the same battle. Many Americans continue to want to treat certain people differently. They want to treat blacks differently. They want to treat women differently. They want to treat Hispanics and Asians and LGBTQ individuals differently. They want the right to discriminate against anybody they don't like or agree with or who they feel are inferior in some way. And we have elected officials at the highest level who agree with and support them in those efforts.

The Civil War never really ended. The formal fighting with guns and cannons may have ended. Slavery may have been abolished. But the underlying issue has never gone away. In fact, in many ways it's worse than ever because, as I said, it isn't just about blacks anymore.

[rennigade]

Not sure about that kind of civil war, but I like the Guns N' Roses song - Civil War