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  • LivingAlmostLarge
    replied
    how's it going

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  • FLA
    replied
    Originally posted by Trace View Post
    Yes I do work..I have my own business for over 20 yrs... We had my business built in to our house when we built it . I work as much as I can. Take care of the household cleaning meals etc. My income is not anywhere near as much as hubby though. I started out this way so I could be home with the children and make a living as well.
    one trick that worked when I was married was that we pretended I didn't earn an income and we lived off his. all my money went into savings. Maybe you could try that with your income, just throw it all at the debt.

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  • Trace
    replied
    To FLA

    Yes I do work..I have my own business for over 20 yrs... We had my business built in to our house when we built it . I work as much as I can. Take care of the household cleaning meals etc. My income is not anywhere near as much as hubby though. I started out this way so I could be home with the children and make a living as well.

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  • disneysteve
    replied
    Originally posted by Trace View Post
    I really came here more to see if the amount of debt verses current income was even possible to tackle.
    It is definitely manageable but will require both of you to work together to fix it, which requires both of you to be fully informed about where things stand.

    Good luck.

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  • Trace
    replied
    Of course if I could pay back what I've gambled away without him finding out I would. Who wants to face the music (even if I should)and I feel really horrible about slipping up again. It is an addiction or has become one. He most certainly could ask anytime to pull up our credit accounts and look at them. He trusts me to pay everything and look after our finances. I fully understand I've taken advantage of that trust. The debt does need to be dealt with and yes I'm aware there are things we could go without no doubt. Really we have three separate issues the gambling the debt and the financial infidelity. I really came here more to see if the amount of debt verses current income was even possible to tackle. I take comfort in the fact the others who have shared there debt stories have managed to dig there way out owing as much as us with similar income. It at least gives me some hope.

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  • Gailete
    replied
    Originally posted by Trace View Post
    ....Neither one of us drink or smoke. The boat is something he bought awhile back and gets tons of enjoyment from along with my boys. He DOES know we are in considerable debt I have added to it by gambling and being deceitful about how much I was spending. He just doesn't know about extra amount I added on... Yes I need to stop gambling asap... Selling the house isn't an option I have a business that's been built in to our home. Cutting back yes.
    I wasn't implying that you did smoke or drink, those are only examples of money suckers that just about everyone in America has. For some it is cigarettes, for another chocolate, while another it might be weekly mani-pedis, weekly trips to the hairdressers or barber, dinners out a couple of times a weeks can vary greatly in expense depending on where you go; with McD and Taco Bell in one cost range and Red Lobster in yet another and then the really expensive restaurants that your area may have. I used to work with a girl that went bankrupt (before she did, she used all remaining credit on her cards to get herself a new summer wardrobe) but she also gambled and loved to tell us about her wins and how her room was comped, etc. Of course when things didn't go so well for her she wouldn't talk about her weekend and we all had to stay out of the her way. The two of us made the same income only she also got ~$400 child support. She could never figure out how I could get along on what we earned. She couldn't understand that I didn't enjoy shopping till dropping, or feeling like I needed to pay $50 every few weeks to get my car detailed, or no need to go gambling, nor did I take my boys out routinely to Red Lobster for dinner like she did because her 8 year old liked going there instead of McD! The point was she was spending money constantly that she didn't have. We could all see it but she wasn't at all interested in our take on how we lived more frugal lifestyles. Comfortable but frugal lifestyles.

    That is part of the trouble with those that wallow in debt that was due to over spending. Refusal to do what is needed to dig out of the hole. I had to break down a few years ago and hire help to clean house for me due to no longer having the physical strength and energy to do so. It wasn't money that I had spare, but I had to do it so I gave up haircuts as well as other little things I had been spending on. Our income can't afford cell phones or cable TV. Currently with our rabbit ears we get about 9-10 channels, more than enough with the DVDs and videos we also have to watch. Haven't been to the movies in years, but if one looks really interesting my son will try and buy it for us for Christmas, birthday, mother's/father's day, etc. My favorite store to shop at is a thrift store. We enjoy our life for the most part (take away the physical problems I might enjoy it even more). I don't feel deprived of anything. That is something my co-worker couldn't understand. She felt deprived if she couldn't buy something, same as that ex-husband. Reminds me of the Cathy cartoon years ago that had her saying 'how could I be out of money? I still have checks left!'

    Over the years on many money forums I have seen people practically cry and have every excuse in the book about why they can't give up there cable TV, their cell phones even though 25 years ago pretty much nobody had one and now no one thinks it is odd to spend money on the newest and latest model and phone plan, 50 years ago credit cards were a rare thing for anyone to have so people budgeted for what they needed.

    My biggest concern with your problem is that you don't want to bring your husband into your confidence about the family finances. Are you maybe gambling that you can sneak in austerity measures and get rid of this debt without him knowing? It is going to come out someday and most likely in an uncontrolled many instead of taking the time to have a sit down talk about the problems. There is more than one way to gamble, and in this matter you seem to want to take the chance that you can do this without your hubby knowing the worst. Sort of like some spouses having affairs thinking that their spouse will never catch on.

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  • FLA
    replied
    Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

    In fact, one thing you might consider doing is putting up a whiteboard somewhere visible like the kitchen. List all of the debts with the starting balances. Each month as you make payments, update the board with the current balances so that you can clearly see the progress. Each time a debt is repaid, do something to celebrate together. Maybe go out to dinner or to a movie, then come home and cross that debt off the board together. Make it a game, a challenge. The more motivated you can get, the more dedicated you will be.
    this is a great idea!

    I'm all for transparency when it comes to finances. I learned the hard way. I was married to someone who was very anal about keeping a budget to the penny but did not know how to save for retirement. He taught me to budget, I taught him to invest. But I let him take over the books because he genuinely likes it so much. Well, when our marriage went off the rails, I found he had moved all of our retirement investments into cash (forging my signature) and had taken out 30k for a lawyer. He had to pay it all back but had I insisted on being involved more THAT would never have happened.

    I get the shame you feel over the gambling but you are sorry and moving on to fix things. Your husband needs to know all the hard work you are doing, read the same books you are doing and partner up. If he's really busy, just meet once a month and go over the books. Also, you're paying for your midlife crisis, I think he needs to pay for his and get rid of the car before it depreciates further. Especially if he can use his work car at home.

    I might have missed it, do you work? Maybe a short term part time job would help. All of the extra income can go towards debt and an emergency fund.

    You can do this!

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  • Trace
    replied
    Some good points..

    Yes you are right gross income and after tax are very different..
    My hubby is in line for a promotion sometime in the coming year..this should increase his income considerably...but we don't count on something that hasn't happened yet. Neither one of us drink or smoke. The boat is something he bought awhile back and gets tons of enjoyment from along with my boys. He DOES know we are in considerable debt I have added to it by gambling and being deceitful about how much I was spending. He just doesn't know about extra amount I added on... Yes I need to stop gambling asap... Selling the house isn't an option I have a business that's been built in to our home. Cutting back yes. We need to give up all vacations and eating out also not buying anything unless absolutely needed. I think he would sell the car if it came right down to it...He forgave me once before for over 40 000 of gambling debt that's why it's so hard to for me to confide in him for my latest transgressions. I think over spending has been a theme through out our 30 year marriage. We are not behind in bills and still have good credit ratings..but if our income where to go down or one of us become ill..it would be a fast fall downward...
    I'm so done with being debt but I know I really need to give up gambling for good..we wouldn't be nearly as bad off if I hadn't lost my mind. I'm working on my issues and I will have to tell hubby as he will eventually find out at some point no doubt. Thanks for your perspective.

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  • Gailete
    replied
    Coming late to the discussion, but I noticed one thing right away and that was you kept mentioning that your total income was $210,000 a year and then in one post only, you said this:

    after tax income current is 140 000 according to our year end.
    What you need to understand and internalize is that your income is NOT $210,000. It is $140,000 which is $70,000 LESS than the number firmly fixed in your head. I know with me, the number $210,000 is close to a quarter of a million dollars, but $140,000 isn't anywhere near that. You have to remind yourself whenever you want to spend money on something and want to justify the expenses is that we make so much, we can afford this $5 coffee. No you can't afford it and no you don't really make that much money. Those expenses add up. One $5 coffee 5 days a week ends up being $1300 a year. Same thing with cigarettes. I don't know how anyone can afford to smoke considering they are just burning up dollar bills.

    You and your husband NEED to have a sit down conversation and with absolute truthfulness about the money situation. Do you think he would have really bought this 'mid-life crisis' car if he had known the true extent of your finances. Same with the boat and it's upkeep. You say he has $20 spending money a week. He knows what he makes and when you didn't say 'no we can't afford it', felt like this wasn't going to even be a dent in the savings he may have figured you should have had. But the truth needs to come out. Even if you continue paying the bills, he needs to 'countersign' so to speak what you are doing with the money. Show him the actual bills and the checkbook register where you paid on the bill. Let him check things out as much as he wants, but he needs to to keep you accountable. You also should join Gamblers Anonymous to help keep you honest about your gambling.

    At one point in my life I lived in a mobile home park in a doublewide home that I had bought new for $40K, I drove a car with only about $200/month payments and HALF of my income went to taxes, SS, and savings. I lived on half of what I made. I made a foolish mistake and married a man who had been less than honest about his finances. The day after we got married, I found that I was now with him, in over $20K credit card debt, his mortgage debt and car payments. I was shocked to say the least. He sold his house and paid off the bills. But insisted my three bedroom mobile home (1200 sq ft) was too small and we had to buy a bigger house for on the rare occasions his son visited, same reason for we need a bigger car. So suddenly I had a mortgage for $100K, $400+ car payments, I had had a worker's comp payout that paid the downpayment on the house, but within months pretty much all my savings were gone. Within a year and half we were in $42K worth of credit card debt, the car payments and property taxes were boosting the mortage up $25 extra every month and that happened every year so that after 4 years our payment was $100/month more than we had started with. He loved to tell people that he made $800/week (he did a 2-4 times a year) the rest of the time it was anywhere from $200-400/week and when he 'needed' or wanted something he would take cash advances against his pay check. Anyhow after 4 years I realized that he wouldn't change, I was making $1100/month in minimum payments on credit cards, the mortage was $900+, we still had the $400 car payment. Oviously we barely had money for food or utilities and gas. I brought home $900 every other week so the mortgage and the credit cards payments were more than my take home. I told him we were getting a divorce. He moved oout, we sold the house with enough profit to pay off ALL the credit cards, I'm not sure if he paid the ones in his name, my worker's comp payout ($25,000) that I had paid the down payment with, was completely gone. I started life over. And then the calls started from his creditors. I think I now haven't had one of them call in a couple of years, but we divorced in 1999. One of the first things he did was buy a motorcycle, a brand new single wide mobile home after telling me 4 years before he would never live in one again, and a 6' wide TV for $1500. All on credit. I estimate that within a month from the divorce he was in $60K worth of debt again. While he refused to change his money habits, I was left with $1000 after things were paid off and from there, I was able to start saving again and then I got hit with a medical problem and could no longer work at age 45. My current husband doesn't make much, but still with a very minimal income I have managed to save around $10K in the last 8 years or so. Some of that was $15 deposits at a time. I never wanted to be in that situation again. But this past year was a rough one financially and we had to get in the cc again. My goal is to get them paid off ASAP now that life is back to 'normal' . You can get there also.

    Some people just won't change, but the point is that you CAN if you are willing to change. And that is the secret. Are you willing to do what it takes to get out of debt? Are you willing to sell your house now that the kids are out and get a smaller/cheaper one? Are you willing to bring up the possiblity for hubby to sell his car. Maybe if he saw the whole picture he might actually volunteer it. You have a lot of options that many don't have. Even on your take home income you are making so much more than the average family so you do have options. You also have to prepare yourself for a very angry husband who may want to kick you to the curb, but you have to be honest with him. You two have to work together on fixing this and it will take drastic measures to get things sorted out. He will never understand why you aren't going out to dinner or on vacations unless he knows about the debt and how drastic you need to be to cut back to have the money to pay things off.

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  • ~bs
    replied
    to add to what everyone else has already said, once you figure out the numbers, I do think you should disclose it to him. This is your family's problem, hiding it from him will not help, and will anger him if he found out some other way.

    I think when you start paying down your debts, you should use the "pay off the smallest balance first, while making minimum payments on everything else" method. That way you see measurable progress as you pay off your debts one by one. Living on a tight budget sucks, but every once in a while treat yourself to something nice, as sort of a pat on the back.

    And at least you guys have a pretty high level of income. It affords you more flexibility whereas someone making less money with a equivalent income/debt ratio is in a much tighter spot. The reason for this is that basic living costs can only be cut so much, and someone making less money needs to pay a higher % of their income for necessities, whereas if a high income earner cut back their life style to ramen and beans like the poor person, their discretionary income to be applied to savings is considerable.

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  • GoodSteward
    replied
    Trace, I also suggest staying active on this forum, and not just this thread you have started. Sure, people know your situation, but staying involved will help keep you focused on changing. I recently read an article that our brain is wired to think a certain way, as in the nerve grid in the brain is literally wired to process information in a certain way based on past choices and habits we create. This is why new years resolutions typically fail. People try, but almost always fall back into past habits. People don't do what it takes to rewire.

    You need to stay involved here reading and soaking it in to rewire your brain to think differently. I also read it can take up to two months to change or break a habit, which to me sounds like it can take that long to rewire your thinking. Stay involved, read threads, ask questions. You will win with money.

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  • GoodSteward
    replied
    Originally posted by tomhole View Post
    Income - a lot
    The post was a great motivator, but this....this is a cliffhanger. It's all I can see in the post now.

    Last edited by GoodSteward; 01-14-2017, 11:50 AM.

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  • james.hendrickson
    replied
    Originally posted by Trace View Post
    I really appreciate all the constructive criticism, shared experiences, and incourgement. I know what I need to do..there is no easy fix.
    Ill keep checking in to read posts ...Hopefully I cam start to implement some changes .I have to change my thought process... I can't imagine having this paid off in 3 years but even 5 would make me happy.
    Thanks again everyone..I'll check in on a regular basis.
    Trace, once you get motivated and start working at it, you'll find it will go a lot quicker than you think.

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  • Trace
    replied
    Thank- you to all who replied

    I really appreciate all the constructive criticism, shared experiences, and incourgement. I know what I need to do..there is no easy fix.
    Ill keep checking in to read posts ...Hopefully I cam start to implement some changes .I have to change my thought process... I can't imagine having this paid off in 3 years but even 5 would make me happy.
    Thanks again everyone..I'll check in on a regular basis.

    Leave a comment:


  • HundredK
    replied
    Originally posted by Trace View Post
    I would rather he didn't see the extent of my deception. Crazy I know but...
    I totally understand why it would be hard, but not wanting him to see the extent of the deception, is in itself, deception. Think of how much better you'll feel if you just lay it all on the line and allow him to take part in the process. Get rid of the guilt.

    Maybe he'll decide he does want to keep his car, maybe he won't. You can work through it either way, but it's only fair for him to know the size of the hole you're in.

    My biggest concern with your statement is that if you still feel the need to hide things from him, this might be a short lived endeavor to get debt free.

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