Anyone else who hates Wal-Mart - check this out!

[paulmish]

This is a link which concisely lists all the reasons why Wal-Mart is costing taxpayers millions of $$ a year. I despise Wal-Mart, because to me they symbolize everything I don't like about our economic direction.

"I'd rather have a good job than a $5 shirt."

[paulmish]

Duh! I forgot the link. Here it is:

http://wakeupwalmart.com/facts/

[amomof4]

Could we not say the same thing about McDonalds or any other company that hires unskilled labor? I know here in the North that Walmart is a premium job because they pay more than other companies, & they give benefits that the other companies don't.

Ok, using your $5 shirt as an example, tell me how a person living below poverty is better off paying $10 for the same shirt? Just wondering.

[Snoopy2645]

Where I live walmart is also one of the better paying stores. My friend works thier & has several degrees & works as just a regular cashier I cant understand that but whatever!!

As for thier grocery dept they are by farthest the cheapest place to shop around here but for clothes they are pretty expensive I can get brand name cheaper on clearance somewhere else.

[VJW]

Originally Posted by amomof4

I know here in the North that Walmart is a premium job because they pay more than other companies, & they give benefits that the other companies don't.

Then why does Walmart have the largest number of employees on state Medicaid assistance programs around the country ?

Ok, using your $5 shirt as an example, tell me how a person living below poverty is better off paying $10 for the same shirt?

How did you arrive at the assumption that paying their employees a fair wage and benefit package would DOUBLE the cost of the shirt ?

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[paulmish]

VJW - great points! I'm glad the question about the $10 shirt was mentioned. That highlights exactly the c**p that we're being told about the impact that "box stores" have on our economy.

Could we not say the same thing about McDonalds or any other company that hires unskilled labor?


Absolutely. I just chose Wal-Mart because right now they are doing the most damage to our economy. Wal Mart actually markets themselves as an aid to budget-conscious families. Remember that nauseating ad about how the Mom could stay at home because of Wal-Mart's low prices? What about the husband coming home and saying "Honey, my flower shop / grocery store / hardware store / lawn care store / clothing store is going out of business because of the new Wal-Mart - now you have to work nights to help feed us, because we will both be making minimum wage!"

There is NO free lunch. When small businesses supply goods and services, the prices are higher, but the owners actually make good money. That means they can patronize restaurants, stores, housing, support local sports, and even marry stay-at-home moms. They can also provide jobs where the workers are not controlled by a faceless corporation, which has broken labor laws countless times, including locking employees in overnight with no key, and forcing people to work off the clock. How is that remotely justified by saving 50 cents? Whatever happened to ethics (stop laughing VJW!)?

Ok, using your $5 shirt as an example, tell me how a person living below poverty is better off paying $10 for the same shirt?

Great question. My point is that Wal-Mart's (and many other corporations') practices include forcing their workers onto public healthcare insteading of providing a reasonable benefit system. Many Wal-Mart employees cannot afford the health-care they are offered. We pay for that - 'nuff said. Not only that, but they put other businesses who actually pay a living wage out of business. That means more people living under the poverty line, more social services needed, etc. If they (dream on) paid a decent wage, there would be less people under the poverty line. Those people would not have to scrape and claw to afford a shirt. And the millions saved that we taxpayers are now paying could be used for, well, just about anything, right?

Wal-Mart violated anti-trust laws years ago. However, they are not prosecuted - why? One guess (lobbyists). Without real anti-trust safeguards, a large corporation can eventually take over to the point where they are unstoppable. That's not opportunity, that's monopoly. Bottom line, we should hold corporations accountable, and we don't, because they obscure our vision with aisles and aisles of stuff, alot of which we don't even need, for 46 cents less. Bottom line, our wage structure is being damaged, and that's bad for everyone, especially for those struggling against poverty.

[BillsGirl]

my uhsband and i watched something on history channel about sam walton and the only reason the employees of walmart got health insurance is because they threatened a strike and his wife made him do it, even with the strike he didn't want to do it!

[mom-from-missouri]

When Walmart in my town went from a little Walmart to a Super center, they put numerous businesses out of business. The new Walmart supercenter had to put in a beauty shop, shoe & leather repair, pharmacy, movie rental, snack shop & deli, barber shop and dry cleaners in the front of the store. Within 3 months, several locally owned barbers, beauty shops, the only other shoe repair shop and a video shop closed due to loosing business to Walmart--also a pharmacy closed as well. HOWEVER, within less than a year, walmart closed their shoe repair, barber shop, beauty shop and movie rental--now in our town, we have NO shoe repair, only 1 barber shop, and only 1 dry cleaner. The also put out the 2 fabric shops in town-so you either buy your fabric at walmart, or drive to kansas city to get it. They also won't let girl scouts sell cookies, or boy scouts sell popcorn in the parking lot anymore, because it takes away from sales of their cookies and popcorn..... I kind of lost my respect for Walmart. I also have seen personally, Walmart managers displine their employees in front of customers. I found that very unprofessional and embarsing. (excuse my spelling, I have been awake over 27 hours...)

[VJW]

Originally Posted by BillsGirl

my uhsband and i watched something on history channel about sam walton and the only reason the employees of walmart got health insurance is because they threatened a strike and his wife made him do it, even with the strike he didn't want to do it!

You're referring to the full time workers, but a very large number of Walmart's employees are ‘technically’ part-time. They only let them work 38 or 39 hours, because if they work 40 hours, then they have to provide healthcare and other benefits.

The Frontline investigation “IS WALMART GOOD FOR AMERICA ?” is a good resource, but there are many others:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

[jmjj215]

I should maybe start a new thread for this...

because we will both be making minimum wage!

I just don't understand why people settle for minimum wage. Why don't they find a different job for crying out loud? The last time I worked minimum wage was when I was 15 (lied and said I was 16) at a yogurt shop. I think it was $4.25 or something? It's obvious you can't make money doing that. You can work telemarketing and make 5x that amount (which I did when I was really 16). Then I paid a guy $60 to teach me how to make balloon animals and I did that for a year and averaged about $30 and hour less balloons (which is neglible). Once in college I did telemarketing again b/c I could live on that, and in the mean time looked for another job that eventually paid me $10.80 an hour.

I just think people need to expect a bit more from themselves. You can make more cutting grass for people. I had a friend (13 at the time) that made about $20 an hour cutting grass for people.

And if you find a job on a commission basis? Then it's up to you - which you may not like - but you can make a lot more than min. wage. They would have to pay more if people wouldn't take the stupid jobs!

[jmjj215]

Interesting facts in that link - very intersting.

Man, I'm glad they lost the suit about forcing employees to clean after they clocked out, and erasing their time. My word.

A couple questions:

The poverty line comparison is for a family of three? Calculating the pay of wal-mart employees, that's obviously assuming they have no other sources of income.

The health care issue is a problem. But I pay more per month than those employees do b/c I have to do a private plan. I work 40 hours per week at my employer, but because I'm an "intern" and not an "employee" I'm not eligible. It happens all the time. Am I bitter about it? No. What do I do? I think of ways to make more money to provide for my family (where my wife does stay at home) - while I'm in a graduate program at a university. It just takes lots of work. And I don't have time to sit around watching TV or anything - ever. Seriously.

Don't bother with the MLM stuff, but this poem
expresses what I'm trying to say.

If people would divert just half their energy they use complaining about their circumstances, and actually take that half of energy and put it to productive use, they would see they could dig themselves out of a lot of these circumstances. I'm not saying it's without effort. I know personally it takes effort. But what the heck is worth anything if you don't have to put some effort into it?

On another note: I'm curious to see what new company or turn of events will eventually de-throne wal-mart. They are far too prideful, and, as can be seen, uncaring.

I don't agree with any of Wal-mart's illegal practices. But I do think people need to use their agency, energy, and intelligence, to better their circumstances.

[paulmish]

Come on Jesse! Give me a break. Do you really think these minimum wage workers settle for these jobs? No, they compete for them. You gotta read "Nickel and Dimed!" You are obviously very intelligent, however, you have no grasp of what true poverty is. You and I do not fit the mold. We are white, intelligent, attractive, well-spoken, etc. I'm ahead of you in age/life, but it was certainly not impossible for me to get ahead, and alot of it was personal charm, etc., because people liked me. You said you have a car to get to work. Do you think that is the norm? It is not. Would you be fired if you were sick for 3 days? If not, also not the norm. Are you healthy and reasonably well-fed when you start your day? Again, not the norm. I am not exaggerating. One of the stories in the book was about a house-cleaning agency that charged $25 per hour - Merry Maids, I think. They paid $6.25 for these pathetic, uneducated women. One of them was pregnant, and one day all she had for lunch was a marked-down package of hot dog rolls (25 cents). She fainted several times on the job, and her co-workers tried to cover for her so we wouldn't get fired. She was married, and her husband had two jobs. They couldn't afford a deposit on an apartment, so they rented a motel room with another couple, for about twice what an apartment would cost, therefore they couldn't save anything. This women was carrying a baby, for Pete's sake! Anyway, these are the people who could take another couple of dollars per hour (do you know that minimum wage has not going up in 7 years?!) to actually buy themselves food for lunch.

Whew! I'm done.

Michelle
The Frugal Yuppie

Half.com link for the book - $3.05:
http://half.ebay.com/cat/buy/prod.cg...1856&meta_id=1

[Miz Pat]

You guys, I rarely post, but I love reading what is going on this website, because it encourages me and often helps.

I am the only employed person in my family. My husband is on disability with a back condition and a serious heart condition.

While I struggle to budget and stay out of debt, I just hate going to Walmart. I had a friend who worked there and was underpaid and treated with disrespect. I remember they used to have a rule that employees couldn't date or get married, if they were caught, they were fired. That alone was enough to get me angry.

But economically, they do drive local business out of business and then when they have no competition, they raise prices. They don't have the same price at each walmart, it varies according to the local economy and when there is no competition, they raise their prices.

I haven't been to a Walmart in over a year.

[jmjj215]

Alright, this is my question:

What do you propose is the solution to poverty? How do you help this poor cleaning lady, and the thousands and thousands like her? What should we do to end poverty?

I know of no other country (still) that offers the same opportunity as the United States, so while the system does have problems (as portrayed in your recommended reading), is their another system that will do better?

Until humans can be 100% charitable and 0% envious, the "system" we are in will have its sad stories. But again, I know of no other system that has ever produced what the US system has produced in terms of standard of living. I lived in Germany for two years, it's worse. My brother lived in Mexico for two years, it's worse. I had a friend that lived in Argentina for two years, it's worse...

So in any other system I believe the sad stories would only increase. On an individual basis, we can only hope to do what we can to be at peace with ourselves - teach, inspire, motivate, and help those in need.

Thanks for the link. Since it's a new month, I'm going to make the purchase right now.

[VJW]

Originally Posted by jmjj215

I just don't understand why people settle for minimum wage. Why don't they find a different job for crying out loud?

A lot of the problem is discriminatory employers. About two-thirds of those earning the Federal Minimum Wage are adult women.

#

[VJW]

Originally Posted by Miz Pat

While I struggle to budget and stay out of debt, I just hate going to Walmart.

A lot of Americans have no choice. They had their 'Standard of Living' go backwards by almost 20% from '81 to '92, and after making substantial advances from '93 to 2000, they saw their wages going backwards once again from 2001 to 2005.

They have to shop where they get the greatest bang for their buck out of necessity.

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[VJW]

Originally Posted by jmjj215

Alright, this is my question:

What do you propose is the solution to poverty? How do you help this poor cleaning lady, and the thousands and thousands like her?

First off, raise the Federal Minimum Wage.

When the Federal Minimum Wage was raised multiple times in the '90s, it increased wages for more than 10 million low-income workers, which in turn:

* Lowered the child poverty rate from 22.7% to 18.9%, the largest drop in nearly 30 years.

* Lowered the overall Poverty Rate to the lowest level in two decades, with the African-American poverty rate dropping to the lowest level ever recorded, and the poverty rate for Hispanics declining to the lowest level since 1979.

What should we do to end poverty?

There's a list of policy shifts which would be required.

I know of no other country (still) that offers the same opportunity as the United States, so while the system does have problems (as portrayed in your recommended reading), is their another system that will do better?

Well,

* Switzerland, Japan, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and Finland all exceed the United States in 'Earning Power' as expressed by GDP per capita.

* Germany, Japan, Switzerland, and Canada all exceed the United States on the 'Index of Economic Prosperity'.

* Japan, Sweden, Norway, Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Canada, and Britain all have larger Middle-Classes, as a percentage, than the United States does.

* The United States exceeds Canada, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Britain, Germany, Norway, and Sweden in inequality of BOTH 'Income' and 'Wealth'.

* The United States exceeds Canada, Britain, Switzerland, Germany, Sweden, and Norway with the percentage of the population living below the 'Poverty Level'.

* The United States exceeds, by a wide margin, Canada, Britain, Switzerland, Sweden, Germany, and Norway in children living under the 'Poverty Level'.

* The United States exceeds, by a wide margin, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Britain, the Netherlands, Germany, and Japan in the rates of Murder, Rape, Armed Robbery, and most other crimes.

* Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Austria, Finland, France, Germany, Canada, Switzerland, New Zealand, Belgium, and Australia all exceed the United Sates on the 'United Nations Human Freedom Index'.

#

[PrincessPerky]

ACK! I read this with holding all comment till the "raise federal minimum wage part"!!!!

Please, minimum wage is part of the cause of all this trouble. Big buisness is going to be out for only big buisness, (unless someone knows of some sort of Rambaldi device for real) You cannot change that, but making a minimum wage means a buisness has to pay a kid 7$ to sweep the floor, do you think the extra 5$ came out of the big buisnesses profit? no it came out of an oldtimers raise!

Insisting on more and more rules in the hopes that a buisness will cut its losses is not going to work. You can boycott if you like, you can certainly switch jobs yourself, But asking for more tax money to try and change the very nature of a money hungry buisness isn't going to work.

And on that standard of living going down thing, can I get some concrete stuff we are missing out on these days? I may be missing something since in the 80s I was barely out of diapers and poverty, but so far as I can tell the standards are pretty high, new car every two years can be hard to keep up with. (not to mention eating out a bazzilion times a week- on welfare I might add)

[VJW]

Originally Posted by PrincessPerky

Please, minimum wage is part of the cause of all this trouble.

No, the lack of the Federal Minimum Wage to keep up with inflation is one of the primary reasons why the 'Standard of Living' of the nation has declined the last five calendar years and Poverty has increased the last five calendar years. The Federal Minimum Wage was at it's lowest point in 40 years in 2003, in inflation-adjusted dollars.

Big buisness is going to be out for only big buisness, (unless someone knows of some sort of Rambaldi device for real) You cannot change that, but making a minimum wage means a buisness has to pay a kid 7$ to sweep the floor, do you think the extra 5$ came out of the big buisnesses profit?

What "extra 5$" ? A seven dollar Minimum Wage would be an extra $1.85/hour.

no it came out of an oldtimers raise!

It's never happened.

People don't seem to realize that workers at the low end of the scale spend almost all of their earnings just to exist, therefore, more than 90% of any increases in the Federal Minimum Wage are spent directly back into the economy.

Insisting on more and more rules in the hopes that a buisness will cut its losses is not going to work.

'Voluntary' does not work with Corporate America.

You can boycott if you like

?????

you can certainly switch jobs yourself

Kinda difficult for people to do when we're down almost 7 million jobs since the 1st QTR of 2001.

But asking for more tax money to try and change the very nature of a money hungry buisness isn't going to work.

Which is EXACTLY why tax cuts for the Rich & Corporate have never been successful.

And on that standard of living going down thing, can I get some concrete stuff we are missing out on these days?

The Labor Department releases the wage data every year. For example, 'Real Average Weekly Earnings' in most industry sectors DECLINED over the June 2003 to June 2004 period, according to this graph from the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/images/2.../wk3/art02.gif

I may be missing something since in the 80s I was barely out of diapers and poverty, but so far as I can tell the standards are pretty high

By what measurement ?

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[mom-from-missouri]

In some areas of our country, all there are are minimum wage jobs. I've been to such areas--very very poor parts of our country.
My town (a college town) only has 4 places that pay more than minimum wage-because local employeers know that the college kids will take any jobs they have, so they will always have enough employees. Of the 4 businesses that start employees above minimum, 3 require college degrees (the hospital, the school district, the electric company and the telephone company). I am lucky enough to work for that 4th one for almost 20 years. That makes it so hard for people just starting out who want to stay here, and hard for people who want to leave to earn enough to save up so they can leave. You have to be very frugal and inventive to come up with some of the ways to save and earn more. I know its hard, but I started out at minimum and now make around $25 an hour. there were times I worked 3 jobs at one time to get ahead, but I did it. Of course, that was before I was married and had children (I am now a single parent), but it also allowed me to purchase my first home before I was married. Our local walmart has a huge turnover in employees. Of course, a lot are college students also who just want party money.