Anyone else who hates Wal-Mart - check this out!

[CRFSaver]

Well, I dont get overtime, I get bonuses. Union doesnt help me there. 40 hour week? I admit I put in 50 many times. Hasnt helped me there. Child Labor laws and safe working conditions? I am not a laborer, I work in a the financial world. No one is going to pay a 12 year old to run money. So again, a Union helps me how? did they have a spot 50 years a go? Absolutely. Do they now, IMHO, not at all.

I still think people seem to forget most small businesses dont offer health care coverage of any kind, let alone at least a little. Target has competed quite affectively with Walmart with higher prices, sometimes lower. I am curious as to where your statistic about employees on the medicare payroll comes from. I never trust statistics till I know the assumptions behind them as they can be skewed to show anything you want.

[jmjj215]

They still have the largest number of employees on taxpayer underwritten state medical care across the country, and there is no evidence that Walmart provides “catastrophic healthcare coverage” to all of it’s employees.

Did you mean they have the highest percentage of employees on taxpayer underwritten state medical care? B/c I don't know if it would be fair to just spout off the largest number - since Walmart is so huge. I guess it just means they're the biggest *ahem* target.

[VJW]

Originally Posted by CRFSaver

Well, I dont get overtime, I get bonuses. Union doesnt help me there. 40 hour week? I admit I put in 50 many times. Hasnt helped me there. Child Labor laws and safe working conditions? I am not a laborer, I work in a the financial world. No one is going to pay a 12 year old to run money. So again, a Union helps me how? did they have a spot 50 years a go? Absolutely. Do they now, IMHO, not at all.

Well, if you’re not working for a wage, but a salary, then quite obviously a union would not “help” you. Why would they, as the company considers salaried employees, particularly white-collar salaried employees, as part of management.

However, your bother or sister, father or mother, daughter or son, may earn a wage. Therefore, they may have been forced to work overtime without compensation, work for less than the Federal Minimum Wage, work 80 hour weeks, or be subject to unsafe working conditions, if it were not for the unions.

This society is more than just about YOU.

I am curious as to where your statistic about employees on the medicare payroll comes from.

The state Medicaid rolls, which are public documents. Besides, Walmart does not deny it. They’ve tried everything under the sun to distract people’s attention from it, but they do not deny it.

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[VJW]

Originally Posted by jmjj215

Did you mean they have the highest percentage of employees on taxpayer underwritten state medical care? B/c I don't know if it would be fair to just spout off the largest number - since Walmart is so huge. I guess it just means they're the biggest *ahem* target.

Both.

Now that assumes a comparable workforce, as I assume you could find a company somewhere with four employees, three of which were on state-provided medical care....

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[CRFSaver]

Thats what OSHA, education and federal labor laws are for now adays. Back 50 years ago Unions were very helpful in that respect. Doesnt mean they are needed anymore. But like anything times change. Just like now a days, you don't see a huge number of horse buggy whip manufacturers. As a student of economics unions keep us from full employement and tend to raise prices above equilibrium. Why is it unions never study their affects on full employment? Look at the speed at which car prices have accelerated in the last 20 years. At Chrysler, 70 percent of the cost of a single car goes to pay wages. At GM, 1500-1600 of every cars costs can be attributed to health insurance.

I would be more supportive of unions if they were realistic. And I have seen too many unions "help" their members with lower wages or no jobs at all cause they dont care or understand the economics of the business, or more interested in saving the Union and not the worker they are supposed to support. And lets not even talk about sports unions. Why do you think Union membership has declined to its lowest level ever.

Unions serve a role in representing members to maintain and receive benefits. At some companies more then others. But many times they seem to forget the owner taking the financial risk, and the affect those agreements have on the company. As an owner, they should be able to make a profit on their investment. I also dont like national unions that spend more money on administration and lobbying then on working at the local level for their constituants.

And no I am not management. I am just a little analyst who has made themselves valuable enough that I can represent myself in salary and benefit negotiations. And if they dont want to pay me, someone else will. This has come from hard work and sacrafice, working better then the next guy or girl. I paid for my education. No one should be guaranteed a job. If you dont work hard then you shouldnt have it. I come from a family that works hard and doesnt want to be lumped into a group.

What percentage of those Walmart workers are part timers that dont qualify for company provided health insurance? How many of those people were on the public medicaid before they started at Walmart and how many are on it after. As the largest employer in the state it makes sense that those numbers would be large.

Given that this country thrives on small business, what percentage of those numbers come from people that work for small business? That's what no one will answer. Most people do not work for Fortune 500 companies. The ones banging on Walmart are grocery workers that dont want to change with the time.

So now that I have had my rant, I am going to agree to disagree with you. Given that people keep shopping at Walmart, they must provide value to a great deal of people. And that value in collumn A must be worth more then what they lose in Collumn B. Mind you Walmart is not perfect. Far from it. They have done some sleezy things. So have Unions and Union heads. No one in this world is perfect including me and including you. I will keep shopping at Walmart and I would bet you a ton of other people will also. Until people stop shopping there, you are not going to change the company.

[VJW]

Originally Posted by CRFSaver

Thats what OSHA, education and federal labor laws are for now adays. Back 50 years ago Unions were very helpful in that respect. Doesnt mean they are needed anymore.

You’ve got to be kidding.

We just recently saw this administration attempt to eliminate overtime for over eight million working Americans. The Congressional Republicans have attempted to pass legislation numerous times to eliminate the 40 hour workweek and kill the Federal Minimum Wage.

As a student of economics unions keep us from full employement and tend to raise prices above equilibrium.

How ? When ?

Look at the speed at which car prices have accelerated in the last 20 years.

Which has WHAT to do with the price of eggs in Singapore ?

At Chrysler, 70 percent of the cost of a single car goes to pay wages.

I’m afraid not.

Unless you’re referring to management ? (Just kidding)

At GM, 1500-1600 of every cars costs can be attributed to health insurance.

Yes, and less than 50% of every dollar paid in health insurance premiums goes to medical care.

BTW, how much of the price of every car at GM is attributable to corporate management, with their corporate jets, corporate yachts, corporate limos,corporate condos, corporate vacation lodges, corporate bonuses, and corporate stock options ?

Why do you think Union membership has declined to its lowest level ever.

Ah, stacked membership of the NLRB and anti-union legislation ?

I also dont like national unions that spend more money on administration and lobbying then on working at the local level for their constituants.

Names please.

No one should be guaranteed a job.

And just who has proposed that ?

What percentage of those Walmart workers are part timers that dont qualify for company provided health insurance?

Almost all of them. That’s the point. If you had read the thread, you would have seen that it was pointed out that Walmart intentionally assigns a large percentage of their employees to only 38 or 39 hours a week, which keeps them under the 40 hour/week threshold that mandates full benefits.

So now that I have had my rant, I am going to agree to disagree with you.

You can “disagree” all you like, it’s still a free country the last time I checked, BUT you’ll have a lot of trouble trying to substantiate it.

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[CRFSaver]

wow such bitterness. I notice you only reply to the things where you can somehow disagree and very little or none at all about the things where you have no answer. Either way I feel so sorry that you are bitter at the world. But I won't make any more judgements. Maybe life has been terrible to you.

[VJW]

Originally Posted by CRFSaver

wow such bitterness.

Huh ?

What “bitterness” ? Just the facts. You really do need to refrain from projecting.

I notice you only reply to the things where you can somehow disagree and very little or none at all about the things where you have no answer.

Like ?

Actually, you just failed to answer or defend a slew of “things” from post # 66.

Either way I feel so sorry that you are bitter at the world.

That’s hysterical.

Maybe life has been terrible to you.

Life has been fairly good to me.

NEXT EXCUSE ?

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[CRFSaver]

Life has been great for me. I just notice you refuse to even consider your research or reasoning may be flawed in some way. Part of learning is trying to see things from different angles. I have freely admited you have made some very valid points but you refuse to consider others that disagree with you may have points as well. That is where I see bitterness. I have met many people like you, that, you believe the sky is green, someone says its blue, you wont even look out the window to see if maybe the sky is blue. It is that clsoed mindedness that is a shame. I dont know everything, far from it. Neither do you. Either way trying to make points with you is a fruitless exercise as you seem bitter towards anyone that has maybe done better in life then you, or hasnt done it your way.

[VJW]

Originally Posted by CRFSaver

Life has been great for me.

Terrific.

I just notice you refuse to even consider your research or reasoning may be flawed in some way.

I’ve made no such refusal. Please feel free to SUBSTANTIATE where my “research or reasoning may be flawed in some way”.

Part of learning is trying to see things from different angles. I have freely admited you have made some very valid points but you refuse to consider others that disagree with you may have points as well. That is where I see bitterness.

Then you are either imagining things or are projecting. What you are NOT doing is substantiating. However, please don’t expect me to give any weight to mere unsubstantiated beliefs that are thrown about.

I have met many people like you, that, you believe the sky is green, someone says its blue, you wont even look out the window to see if maybe the sky is blue.

Sorry, but I have not presented you with any “beliefs”.

It is that clsoed mindedness that is a shame. I dont know everything, far from it. Neither do you. Either way trying to make points with you is a fruitless exercise as you seem bitter towards anyone that has maybe done better in life then you, or hasnt done it your way.

You're having to resort to attacks seems to be derived from your inability to support your own assertions.

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[mjrube94]

Despite reading the posts on this thread and having very definite opinions, I've refrained from posting because it's obviously a hot-button issue. One of the things I love best about this site is that, despite our differences, everyone is generally friendly and supportive. I'm sorry to see that we have gotten totally away from that with this thread. The bottom line is that people's opinions are shaped from their life experiences, and everyone's will be different from everyone else's because of that. And while it's useful to present and read differing views, one can't get angry when people stick to their opinions and see things differently. Can I suggest that we "agree to disagree" and stop all of the nastiness?

[CRFSaver]

Absolutely!

[jmjj215]

I enjoy VJW's comments b/c they get me thinking, researching, and reading. I also love when "Jon", the phantom poster, makes a post - that means VJW will respond, which is always entertaining.

I think we've de-railed the thread

[VJW]

Unfortunately, it was 'CRFSaver' that "de-railed the thread" by resorting to personal attacks against another poster. Completely gratuitous.

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[lvhocken]

thanks for the info!

Leah

[cicy33]

Wal mart is not the problem, we as a people are. I shop at walmart. I also tried to shop at local stores that close before I get home. I don't want to spend my weekend trying to "beat" the clock at local stores. Unions while they provide good benefits have their problems. I live in southern Illinois. Most of our Union guys here are : UNEMPLOYED. There are jobs, but not with union contractors and here is the catch. They are not allowed to work for a non union contractor while things are slow. This by the way is directly from the Union Rep we talked to when we considered joining. That is bogus in my opinion. but oh well. they knew the rules when they signed up. Our company attempted to become union, couldn't afford it. We would have to pay over $30 per hour between benefits and wages for our lowest paid guy, forget raises. I don't have a problem with unions, but I do have a problem with people picketing because a company chose not to become union. Isn't that their right? Last time I checked we live in the land of the free not the land of the free as long as you do what we want. That would be the same as me picketing someone's job because they didn't offer medical insurance and mine did and I say you must cuz mine does. but back to the original idea here is that people need to stop blaming wal-mart and everyone else and look at themselves. If more people shopped local then wal-mart would not have the hold that they do. Personally I dislike target. Not for their business ways but because I just don't like their stores. By the way did you know that the "local" jobs are the ones that rarely offer any benefits at all? They can't afford it, the owners usually work the longest hours. Why does no one feel like they are in the wrong? I personally don't. I feel that benefits are a privilege not a right. A paycheck is a right. and in the state of Illinois by the way Overtime pay is mandatory for people on hourly wages. If anyone is working a job on an hourly wage and not being paid for it, that is illegal and can be fought.