Separate Finances Argument With Spouse

[btrout]

My husband and I had an argument last night about how separate our finances should be. He likes to keep them pretty much separate and tallies what we owe each other pretty much down to the dollar.

He makes about $29,000 a year. I have been making $22,500. I have a high rather fixed cost for a medical diet at about $650 per month. I have an illness that prevents me from working more or changing jobs right now.

We split rent and utilities and phone service down the middle. We have been driving my car exclusively 7 days a weeks for a while now, splitting the cost of gas evenly. However, we may switch to driving separately for 2 days a week in the near future.

My car recently needed a repair for $275. On my income, that's a lot of dough. Enough to put me personally in the red for the month and dip slightly into savings. I avoid using credit. Especially now that we are married, I wondered why our finances are so separate. Why not have large unexpected expenses split between us?

He said that I only wanted him to help pay because I had wanted a certain pair of shoes that I found on sale. I did want a pair of shoes (which I will not buy now) , but I think my point still stands. He thinks it's okay that I go into the red this month and use savings to cover this unexpected expense while he bears no obligation to help out to help pay for the car we both drive, but that I own. I believe we as a couple should avoid either of us going into the red in any month.

Thanks for your opinions,
btrout

[bjl584]

I am an advocate of when people get married there is no more his money and her money. There is only our money. You have entered into a marriage (a kind of partnership.) You are sharing each other's lives. That has to include finances. What is your husband's argument for wanting to keep your finances seperate?

[MonkeyMama]

Personally, I couldn't be married to someone without completely inter-twining our finances. I just can't wrap my brain around - "you pay for that" when you should be a team. This mine/yours business seems petty, especially for people who have made a lifelong commitment to each other.

Regardless, if he is driving your car, why is he not helping you with the repair?

I have often seen it recommended to split bills base on percentage of income. Meaning, since he makes 56% of the household income, he should pay 56% of the shared bills. You should pay 44%. To make it more equitable in a separate finance environment, anyway.

From what you shares, I think it goes beyond my personal feelings about separating money. I personally couldn't be married to someone who treated me like that. He sounds very selfish.

Heck, I Can't say I would be friends with someone who was like that. You know - those friends who are always keeping financial score? Ugh. Versus just having a mutual respect that you don't screw over your friends financially (when you go out to dinner together or sharing a hotel, etc.)

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by btrout

He likes to keep them pretty much separate and tallies what we owe each other pretty much down to the dollar.

That isn't a husband. It is a roommate. What part of "and the two shall live as one" didn't he get when the two of you decided to get married?

I'm with Brian 100%. When you both say "I do", that's the end of "Mine" and "Yours". It all becomes "OURS".

ETA: This is NOT a financial question, by the way. Your problem is NOT about money. This is a much, much deeper relationship problem.

[btrout]

I'm not sure what his reasoning is exactly. Something along the lines of "it keeps things simple". I think he is content to let me screw up my own finances as long as he gets to manage his own as he sees fit. My illness makes me a bit forgetful, so he pays the bills. Maybe he thinks I'm generally irresponsible. It's been years however since I overdrafted an account and I live pretty much debt free. I think he thinks I'm more irresponsible than him though.

When we added me to his car insurance, there was a discount made available to him, or to the both of us, I'm not sure. In any case less was owed than expected at that time that I was added and he just asked me to pay for what was owed rather than an amount that would have reflected splitting the amount of the discount between us.

Last night, he asked me to split the cost of a new electronic device 50/50 with him while we were at the store for him to look at it. I hemmed and hawed, not knowing whether i could afford it given my recent car repair cost. I finally agreed when he said I could pay him back over a couple of months. And I brought up that he didn't pay for any of my car repair and he got angry. This electronic device I get some use out of, but not as much as him and I would never have bought it on my own.

He said that he had not asked for that extra $90 from me for the car insurance, so really I could afford to split the electronic device with him.

In addition to him making more money than me, I have this rather large fixed cost of paying for my food and generally taking care of my health. He spends a decent amount of the money he earns on cigarettes and alcohol. I don't smoke or drink at all.

It just doesn't make sense to me to be squeezed more than him, if we are partners.

We've not been married long, so I'm not extremely aware about how other couples manage their finances.

Thanks,
btrout

[bjl584]

Originally Posted by btrout

I'm not sure what his reasoning is exactly. Something along the lines of "it keeps things simple". I think he is content to let me screw up my own finances as long as he gets to manage his own as he sees fit. My illness makes me a bit forgetful, so he pays the bills. Maybe he thinks I'm generally irresponsible. It's been years however since I overdrafted an account and I live pretty much debt free. I think he thinks I'm more irresponsible than him though.

When we added me to his car insurance, there was a discount made available to him, or to the both of us, I'm not sure. In any case less was owed than expected at that time that I was added and he just asked me to pay for what was owed rather than an amount that would have reflected splitting the amount of the discount between us.

Last night, he asked me to split the cost of a new electronic device 50/50 with him while we were at the store for him to look at it. I hemmed and hawed, not knowing whether i could afford it given my recent car repair cost. I finally agreed when he said I could pay him back over a couple of months. And I brought up that he didn't pay for any of my car repair and he got angry. This electronic device I get some use out of, but not as much as him and I would never have bought it on my own.

He said that he had not asked for that extra $90 from me for the car insurance, so really I could afford to split the electronic device with him.

In addition to him making more money than me, I have this rather large fixed cost of paying for my food and generally taking care of my health. He spends a decent amount of the money he earns on cigarettes and alcohol. I don't smoke or drink at all.

It just doesn't make sense to me to be squeezed more than him, if we are partners.

We've not been married long, so I'm not extremely aware about how other couples manage their finances.

Thanks,
btrout

You have way bigger problems than a simple matter of finances. I can't really offer you advice on your situation or tell you what to do. Your problems go beyond the scope of an internet forum. Does anyone else know about any of this? Family? Friends? I know what I would do if I were in your position, but you need to do what is in your best interests. I wish you the best.

[Ima saver]

I agree with the others. It is not your money or his money, it is our money and should be handled jointly. I have been married for 34 years (and do not work now) and I have handled the money the entire time.

[riverwed070707]

Separate finances work for some people so I don't think you should let the boards resounding vote that married people combine finances sway you from what works...however, this isn't working. It sounds like he controls the money and you do what he says -- that is not a marraige and it will not work if you can't talk about this and resolve it without someone getting mad.

You make about the same so I think that part is kind of irrelevant. The part that sticks out to me is how he has no problem asking you to split something he wants and blowing his own money on cigarettes and alcohol while you're left to scrape by to cover your medical expenses and car repairs. You need to be able to communicate with your husband and him with you. Start with that, then start working on your finances.

[MonkeyMama]

Originally Posted by btrout

We've not been married long, so I'm not extremely aware about how other couples manage their finances.

I think Brian said it very well in his last post.

It really doesn't matter at all how other couples manage their money. All that matters is that both you and your spouse feel comfortable with your own financial arrangements.

OF course, nothing will change if you don't communicate how you feel and stand up for yourself.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by btrout

I think he is content to let me screw up my own finances as long as he gets to manage his own as he sees fit.

As long as he continues to see himself as independent of his wife, this will never work.

Last night, he asked me to split the cost of a new electronic device 50/50 with him

Great. He wants you to pay for his toys but he wants to have nothing to do with your necessities.

It just doesn't make sense to me to be squeezed more than him, if we are partners.

He is not viewing you as a partner in this relationship.

[maat55]

Originally Posted by btrout

I'm not sure what his reasoning is exactly. Something along the lines of "it keeps things simple". I think he is content to let me screw up my own finances as long as he gets to manage his own as he sees fit. My illness makes me a bit forgetful, so he pays the bills. Maybe he thinks I'm generally irresponsible. It's been years however since I overdrafted an account and I live pretty much debt free. I think he thinks I'm more irresponsible than him though.

When we added me to his car insurance, there was a discount made available to him, or to the both of us, I'm not sure. In any case less was owed than expected at that time that I was added and he just asked me to pay for what was owed rather than an amount that would have reflected splitting the amount of the discount between us.

Last night, he asked me to split the cost of a new electronic device 50/50 with him while we were at the store for him to look at it. I hemmed and hawed, not knowing whether i could afford it given my recent car repair cost. I finally agreed when he said I could pay him back over a couple of months. And I brought up that he didn't pay for any of my car repair and he got angry. This electronic device I get some use out of, but not as much as him and I would never have bought it on my own.

He said that he had not asked for that extra $90 from me for the car insurance, so really I could afford to split the electronic device with him.

In addition to him making more money than me, I have this rather large fixed cost of paying for my food and generally taking care of my health. He spends a decent amount of the money he earns on cigarettes and alcohol. I don't smoke or drink at all.

It just doesn't make sense to me to be squeezed more than him, if we are partners.

We've not been married long, so I'm not extremely aware about how other couples manage their finances.

Thanks,
btrout

Your not in a real marraige. The motivations of your so called "husband" are irrelevent. Your lack of recognition of your reality, is the real problem.

I strongly suggest you and your "husband" take Dave Ramsey's Financail Peace course at a local church. This will teach you about personal finance and how a couple should interact financially. It usually costs around 100 per person, sometimes it is buy one get one free. Ask your parents if they will front you the money, you need the course badly.

[papa_squat]

It does sound like the problems may be more than just about finances, but I imagine that the financial stress you're under is also fueling some resentment. If you feel like the husband means well, but just doesn't know any better, here's what my husband and I do.

Currently some of our finances are separate, but it is "our" finances and we share info and make decisions together. We have our own bank accounts and pay bills from them, but whenever we have an agreed "joint" expense come up (mortage, groceries, utilities), we put the receipt in a folder. Then we meet together once a month (the 15th works best forus) to put all the receipts in our joint spreadsheet and discuss our finances for a half hour to an hour. We keep track of who paid what and then we split the cost based on percentages of our income (it works out so he pays 61% and I pay 39%). Usually I write him a check each month for the difference because the mortgage currently comes out of his account. By spliting joint expenses 61/39, we have equal opportunity to have our separate "fun money." We also use our monthly meeting time to talk about our savings goals, upcoming expenses (home improvement, car repairs, etc.) and what we need to do to join our financial lives together.

We just got married 4 months ago, so we're still in the process of merging our finances now. We recently set up our joint check & savings and we're about to have our paychecks deposited there. Joint expenses will come out of this account, so the check writing each month will stop. We will also keep our separate checking accounts so we can also deposit our separate fun money (also based on percentages). We made each other beneficiaries to each other's accounts and we've made plans together based on these accounts (one savings account is our joint emergency fund, one mutual fund is a "future baby" fund and we have an ongoing home improvement fund). We both have reitirement accounts through work, so we keep those separate, but I update each other on how they're doing. We do share car repair cost (why wouldn't you if you drive the same car?) and we share major medical expenses and copays. We haven't figured out if we should share my student loans yet, so I'm keeping that separate for now, but the payments are quite manageable.

It's important that you sit down with your husband and be honest that your separate finances are making you resent that he doesn't consider your car and your health to be of his concern. You two are meant to work as a partnership, which means you make financial decisions together and share burdens together. If there are certain things you both decide you don't want to share (i.e. your shoes and his alcohol & cigarettes), then these come out of your separate "fun money" accounts. Some couples can maintain separate accounts and make it work, but most likely those couples at least split expenses based on percentages of income.

Make sure you both work out a way to track your expenses so you find a fair system. Make sure this includes a joint emergency fund and a budget savings for things like car repairs and health emergencies. Research personal finances for couples and have regular conversations about your financial goals. You should have full dislosure of finances (if he refuses to show you any balances or account info, that is a big red flag). And remember that you need equal footing to make a marriage work. Good luck and keep us posted on how the conversation goes with your husband. Chances are he just need a wake-up call .

[Frugal]

I also agree that finances should be shared and in common, as this is usually how the law views marital assets. I am trying to say that it does not work as well when finances are not completely shared. I can't comment on your particular case, because everyone is different, but I have found if people don't trust each other, it can really be an issue where they demand to keep things like that separate. It is so much easier when finances are joint once you are married...well, if only for the sake of budgeting and simply paying bills!

[krantcents]

I agree with everyone else, there is a bigger problem here. When I married 42+ years ago, we came into the marriage on an equal footing so we combined our earnings. Since then I made a great deal more than my wife, but it was still our money. If you want to keep things separate, you will need to have an agreement. When both of you use a car for example you should share in the repair. It is complicated that you paid for the car. Both you and your husband have a lot to talk about.

[skydivingchic]

DBF and I have been together for 15 years now and living together for 12. We've had a joint mortgage for 8 years. With the exception of a single joint account from which the mortgage and HOA fees are direct debited (and to which we both contribute to 50/50), we keep separate finances. Our pay is not the same, but we prefer a 50/50 split. We are recently engaged and have already discussed what will happen to our finances after we are married - and our solution will be to not change a thing. It has worked beautifully for us for this long, we see absolutely no reason to fix what isn't broken. I disagree with Frugal that separate finances shows a lack of trust. In our case it is simply two highly independent people wanting to keep control of their own finances. So my perspective is that either way works - combined or separate - provided the parties have both discussed and agreed on the method AND both have similar general philosophies about money and how to handle it.

All that said, however, your problem is much larger than finances. You seem to have trust, communication, and fundamental marriage issues. None of us can solve that for you. You need to sit down and have a serious conversation with your husband about this and how it is affecting you. The behaviors you describe are not acceptable ways to treat someone who is supposed to be your life partner. Based on his behavior (NOT his verbal response) after he has heard your concerns, you can decide what your next step is.

[uRabbit]

Division creates division. My wife is a SAHM, and even if I joke about being the one that makes the money, it causes a bit of tension.

I agree with everyone else - there is no yours and mine in a marriage, there is ours. Or, at least, that's the way it SHOULD be.

[Petunia 100]

I disagree with the majority on the issue of separate finances. I think whatever works for you is the way to go. Plenty of happily married couples keep separate finances.

However, what you are describing is not equitable. He uses your car for free, but repairs are your problem. He gets a discount on his car insurance for adding you, the discount is 100% his and you can pay full price. He wants an electronic device, he wants you to pay for half. You hemmed and hawwed before agreeing. If a person hems and haws before agreeing, chances are good they would rather say no. Why didn't you just say no? Now you owe him half the cost of an item you didn't want in the first place!

You need to stand up for yourself. You are being walked on. Your husband is mooching from you. Respect yourself, don't allow it.

[ActYourWage]

I too am in the keep your finances joint camp if you are married. I try but I cannot understand how couples can keep separate finances.

The issues the OP has listed is something that needs to be looked at long and hard. I hope you two can make things work.

[Pansori]

Wow, I guess I am in the minority here. My SO and I... who do live together and plan to be married in the next couple of years... keep our finances separate. He can go either way on the issue, but I prefer it that way. Like the OP we split everything down the middle, and all of our accounts are individual except for one joint savings account.

That being said, I take care of the finances. I tell him what credit card to use, how much to put in saving, how much to keep in checking, what bills to pay and when, etc. etc. etc. While I know most people would not tolerate this kind of control my SO does not mind this set up at all. We have been together for going on 3 years and have not had any issues. His only concern is that he does not want to pay interest on anything.

Now when we do go out somewhere or are looking at spending something and I want him to pay it, I will ask. I have never had an issue where he refused, nor would he ever refuse. If there is ever an emergency with me he would not hesitate to cover the cost, nor would I for him. We also don't have any expectations of paying each other back. We often offer to buy each other things, and sometimes will randomly cover each others' bills (for ex., I made his cc payment last month).

I just have no desire to share my finances with anyone (even someone I love dearly) nor do I want to be overly responsible for someone else's.

That being said, in the OP's case I believe her husband is extreme and in the wrong. They both drive the car, they should both share the obligation. Plus, come on, he's her husband. How could you NOT want to help someone out who you love?

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by skydivingchic

DBF and I have been together for 15 years now and living together for 12.

Originally Posted by Pansori

Wow, I guess I am in the minority here. My SO and I... who do live together and plan to be married in the next couple of years... keep our finances separate.

Just to be clear, I do NOT think that people should combine finances when they are single, even if they live together. That just gets messy. If you are single, you don't have any legal protection if the other person misbehaves with your money.

Once you are married, however, all money is joint even if you choose not to look at it as such. If you don't believe me, just ask any divorce attorney.