Is College Worth it?

[ashandariel]

Simply, would it be financially savvy to return to college or to simply focus on my current career.

I am 30 years old and make 40,000 a year, with full benefits and a company pension plan. I have been employed at my current job for 2 years and reasonably expect to make 50k within 5 years, probably topping out around 60k sometime in the future. Our pay automatically scales with inflation.

I just finished paying off my student loans from a previous, failed college experience(non accredited institution). I have always been a good student, and would like to get into software engineering.

Needless to say it will be expensive, and also very difficult to attend school while working 55+ hours a week, and I had hoped to start a family within the next 5 years as well. Also very expensive. Honestly I am not sure what to do. Any advice?

Thanks in advance,
Ash

[elessar78]

Hard to say, you'd have to look at it from a business standpoint.

Look at the tuition you'd pay as an investment of capital. What's the return on investment going to be? If you spend 40K? 80K? for tuition will you be making considerably more than 40K/year with a degree?

If tuition was going to be 40K for the whole thing and you there was a reasonable expectation of making 100K with a degree, then it'd be a relative no brainer.

[feh]

I don't have a suggestion for you. But I thought I'd provide a little information, as I am a software engineer (have been for 20 years now).

Take what I write below w/ a grain of salt - they are the observations of a single person. I'm not quoting any studies or research here...

Some sort of degree (CS, Math) is likely necessary to get your foot in the door. However, it doesn't need to be from an expensive, well-known school. I've worked w/ PhDs that didn't know which end is up, and I've worked w/ folks who had a 2-year degree from technical schools that were excellent. Your pay increases and opportunities for advancement will depend on your skills and work ethic, not your degree.

Secondly, most of what you need to know you will learn on the job. For the most part, schools teach the fundamentals and concepts. The nitty gritty details are learned through experience and continuing education. Be prepared to do a fair amount of reading on your own if you want to excel.

Lastly, make sure this is something you want to do before you jump into it. Most (virtually all?) software developers spend 95% of their time in front of a monitor and keyboard. I find designing/writing software a very creative and rewarding experience, but if you're a social person that desires lots of interaction w/ other folks, it may not be for you.

Be prepared for the first job you find to be (relatively) low paying. The higher salaries you may have read about generally are only given to experienced, talented coders.

I'll try to answer other questions, if you have any.

[zetta]

What is your current career? You say it tops out at about 60k... Are there people with bachelor's degrees in your field, and where would their salaries top out? (You can browse around on salary.com to get some estimates.)

I am a software engineer, and have worked with many engineering technicians (typically folks with either a 2 year degree or military training related to computers or electronics). My technician friends estimated that just having the BS would add an automatic 20k to their salaries for the same number of years of experience. It is also more unusual for a technician to be promoted into management, so the software engineers (and software test engineers) have more potential for leadership positions and higher top salaries.

Depending on where you live and how many software jobs are in your city, it's likely that you would have a much higher earning potential in software than in your current career. This is a field where the college degree makes a big difference. It's not impossible to get a job without a degree, but it is much much easier if you have one.

As for starting a family, if you will be the primary breadwinner I would definitely say go for it now. Is there any chance you could work part-time in order to get your degree faster?

If you think you might want to be a stay-at-home parent for a few years, you might consider part-time schooling, timing things so that you get your degree about the same time the kids are ready for school.

[EEinNJ]

If you've had a bad experience with college before, I can see why you'd be cautious. From my experience as an electrical engineer, I would say whether college is worth it depends on what you want to do. If you want to work for a big corporation, a degree is essentially a requirement- there are so many others that have them, you can't compete. People with associates degrees or technician degrees may start out at similar wages, but they top out sooner in salary and won't advance. But, those jobs may also be hourly and with overtime, you could easily make more than a salaried engineer.
If you have an entrepreneurial bent, software is a field where not having a degree is not a disadvantage, but there are lots of other risks, of course.
If you decide to do it, don't wait, because it won't get easier or any cheaper. Get your employer to pay for it, if you can, and don't go to "Joe's On-Line University".

[ashandariel]

My career is sales/comission based. Without promotion I can expect to make 60k in 10-15 years based purely on the fact that I have an indispensible product with a very constant, stable demand. A degree will not help me in my current career at all, and there is no way I can go part time.

I orginally went to college because I wanted to design software, I thoroughly enjoy it, and actually still write simple code now and then because I miss it, but I don't know how to do any of the complex, real world stuff.

Education is just so damn expensive...

[feh]

Originally Posted by EEinNJ

People with associates degrees or technician degrees may start out at similar wages, but they top out sooner in salary and won't advance.

My experience has been the exact opposite - salary and advancement have been merit based with my employers.

This may be the situation at large companies? If an employer limits compensation or promotions based on which institution granted your diploma, or how many years the program was, I would discourage the OP from working for them.

[tifnglen]

Will your currernt employer pay any tuition?

[lovcom]

It sounds like the OP is in IT, and wants to stay in IT and thinks getting a degreee in IT will mean more money. Well this is not usually the case.

I make big bucks in IT without a college degree. With IT, the big $$ is not backed by a college degree unless you want to go into IT management.

Development most often pays the most $$ and provides the most opportunities, and for a developer to make six figures, it is exceedingly more valuable to have experience and the proper skills then to have a degree.

Im 49 now and have no formal IT degree, nor any type of degree, yet I make $175,000+ (since age 24) each year because I have the sexy skills; know the right languages, operating systems, etc.

And I have stayed off the management track on purpose because going into IT management means less opportunities, technical skills turn to fallow, and worse.

Stay in development and learn the sexy skills, and to do this you almost never need to attend college, nor get a degree...and if you can read, you can do it like I did: read books, learn from others, absorb new things like a sponge...and again, no college degree needed.

In IT, it's not about what degree you have, nor where you got it....it's about what you know now. I work with MBA's, PH'd folks, and I have never come across a task they could do that I couldn't, and in fact I'm the best developer on the current project.

Success is 90% attitude, and 10% everything else.

In summary, make a list of the skills you need to make $100,000+ and from that list, go to amazon.com and buy the books required to learn those tasks. Study 3-4 nights a week and one day on the weekend, and start cutting code. Do this for the next 12 months, and I guarentee you that within 2-3 years you too can bill well into the six figures.

Why people crank up tuition loan amounts, and settle for sub-six figures is beyond me...LEMMINGS BABY!!!!!

Don't settle...and don't buy this dillusion that you need a degree in IT to get six figures!

[ashandariel]

Thanks all for the advice.

I think I will skip the college thing and do this the american way, half cocked dogged determination. I just dont think I can commit to the financial and time costs, but I know I am a good learner.

Thanks again.

[safari]

A college degree doesn't have to expensive. I went to one of the cheapest public universities and got a degree in Computer Science. I was also working full time while in school. I learned the same things that people learn at expensive schools because most of it was self-study and homework assignments. The professors at cheap schools are not any worse than the professors at expensive schools. The only difference is the students. Expensive schools let you connect and network with the people who might help you later in life. I decided it wasn't worth it for me, and I am glad that I went to a cheap school because I had zero debt upon graduation. With a degree I was able to get a job at a large company, which paid $23K more than my previous job. In the next few years I received several big raises and promotions, which more than doubled my salary. It was never a factor that my school wasn't prestigious; however, I would have never gotten that job without a diploma. That's why I highly recommend getting a degree. When you apply for a job and don't have a college degree, human resources most likely won't even forward your resume to the hiring manager because it wouldn't pass the initial screening process. It depends on the company, but in many cases as long as you have a degree, it really doesn't matter what kind of degree it is, if you have experience in the field. I personally know many people who went to work in IT field and became successful with degrees in other fields, such as electrical engineering, marketing, business administration, political science, etc. Just go and get a degree. You need experience to get a good job, but to get experience you need to find a company that would give you a chance, and in today's economy with so many people looking for work, you'll have a hard time finding a company that would hire you without a college degree.

[nycguy567]

well, there are many factors to consider. software engineering is no walk in the park. how can your current position be leveraged towards software eng?

also, u have to take into consideration your cost of living. granted 50k is decent, i made more than that when i graduated college in NYC 2 years ago. did my masters degree part time at firm's expense and now i almost break 85k. now that is only the base, u have to account for nonfinancial benefits like work/life balance, fringe benefits, scalability and transferability of your skills, exit opportunities, upwards opportunities within that firm etc....many manyyyyyyyy things to consider.

[Merch]

I agree with lovcom about degrees and sexy skills. However, his advice is more appropriate for experienced programmers in the consultanting world where skills and experience trump everything. I have managed, hired and fired programmers. and work as a consultant now.

With the entry level positions, you will be competeting with college grads. I generally looked for BA/BS in math, physics or CS. I would also look at technicla schools. For someone to come in with no degree and no experience, I would probably just pass over the resume.

But then, I work in investments and a lot of programming positions look for finance degrees and advanced math degrees coupled with deep programming experience.

I would say look at your competition for the positions you are looking at and that should help you determine what you need to do to get in the door.

Good luck.

[Scanner]

I think education and training should be part of your life, unless you have a "terminal degree" like DisneySteve or a PhD.

That being said, it doesn't have to be "university paper." I think pursueing certifications can be relevant.

[zetta]

There is a significant difference between IT and software engineering. The former is more about setting up and managing computers and networks, where the latter is about designing new software products. Just depends on what kind of work you would like to do.

Given your sales experience, a lateral move into software or IT sales might be a option that you could do without going back to school. Or a certificate program could lead toward a job as an "applications engineer" -- generally someone who installs or troubleshoots products.

In any case, depending on your location, I'd say you should be able to make a lot more than 60k in any of the above fields.

I would agree that self-taught or a certificate program would be enough to get you started in IT, the hardest part being to find that first job and get your foot in the door. It's quite possible that with 10 years experience you could earn a lot more as an IT consultant than as a software consultant, if you acquire the right skill set. For software engineering, the 2 year degree (or military or equivalent experience) will get you in the door, and then you can often get tuition reimbursement to finish the 4 year degree. The companies I have worked for are not large -- generally 40-150 people -- and having a degree does matter in hiring. The position you are in (technician vs engineer) does matter in promotion opportunities -- it's unfair, but technicians tend to be treated as having less ability and potential.

A bachelor's degree from a state university with an engineering program would be my first recommendation. You want a BS in Engineering or Computer Science, NOT a Bachelor's in Engineering Technology, which is considered more of a technician's degree. A certificate program from a state university with an engineering dept would also be better than one from a school with lesser accreditation.

[lovcom]

Originally Posted by zetta

There is a significant difference between IT and software engineering.

I would have to disagree.

The term "IT" is so broad, and vague. IT encompasses software engineering.

The context of my responses in this thread are for "developer", and a developer in IT is many things; programmer, developer, coder, software engineer, plus more.

Regardless, a great developer should be in the six figures by the 4-5th year of their career. It's just a matter of what skills to master and how one markets themselves. One needs to adapt to the changing industry; determine what the current hot skills are, because when one does this, one can easily make $150k or more each year, even in this downturned market.

I was told of this strategy by an old timer back in the last 1970s, and since the age of 24 (I'm now 49) I've been making six figures doing IT dev, and back before the term "IT" existed.

Oh, and I have no degree, and for IT development a degree is rarely necessary to make six figures...I've prove this with my 30+ year career.

[AtlantaLife&Health]

I say go to school. Your job isn't guaranteed. Don't wait until one day in the future where you might get laid off or fired and then you have the urge to want to attend school. Do it now while you're young. Go part-time, take your time and get your degree. Once you have it, it's yours!

[pikey412]

There is no guarantee you will be making $40,000 after you are finished school.

[amarowsky]

Originally Posted by pikey412

There is no guarantee you will be making $40,000 after you are finished school.

and not to put another damper on the school idea, but isn't software engineering easily outsourced?

Software engineering makes a comeback, despite outsourcing - BusinessWeek

that article says they still have a nice job demand for them, but that just seems to me like a job that could easily be outsourced to another country at a discounted pay. If you really truely think you will like the job and can afford the financial risk of switching careers do it!

I'm just playing devils advocate by trying to remind you of some of the obstacles and difficulties in switching around.

[frito833]

I would have to say no. I'm a Software Engineer and got my Computer Science degree 5 years ago. I learned everything I needed to know in my first semester of college which was the basics of programming and could of taught myself. To add, my college had a poor internship program and I had to approach tech companies myself and practically worked for minimum wage as a web programmer. This alone proved more valuable than my CS degree because in tech jobs experience is greater than a degree.

However, I can see gov't jobs requiring degrees but the private sector it's all about experience and if you can do the job fast and efficiently, the pay will come.