Advice for Friend

[lovcom]

Originally Posted by watsoninc

Also, the mother is absolutely not pressuring the daughter at all. It is 100% the daughter's sense of obligation that gave her this idea, as guessed.

Just because the mother is not pressuring the daughter to buy the car, does not mean the mother should accept the car...it would be immoral for the mother to take the car.

At the end of the day, the daughter should grow up and move out. Let mom worry about her own issues, and let daughter worry about her's. Too many boundries are trampled, and the whole thing shoulds jacked up...what a mess!

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by lovcom

Just because the mother is not pressuring the daughter to buy the car, does not mean the mother should accept the car...it would be immoral for the mother to take the car.

At the end of the day, the daughter should grow up and move out. Let mom worry about her own issues, and let daughter worry about her's. Too many boundries are trampled, and the whole thing shoulds jacked up...what a mess!

luvcom,

How would it be "immoral" for the mother to take the car? Would therefore a gift of an auto from parents, be immoral for sons/daughers to accept? Or is that different somehow?

In my view, a gift is a gift, no matter its source. It would have been nice if daughter could afford what she had planned... but life unfortunately does not always work out nicely.

People come from many different cultures with unique traditions and values toward "family." We each do the best we can.... but "shoulds" and "should nots" do not hold true for every person. When we make a judgement, it needs to consider the people involved and events that have happened that are not listed. "Family" means love and sharing, sometimes even when it hurts.

I feel for all the people in this situation.

1) You have Mom with transportation needs
2) You have daughter with financial issues and "guilt" issues (duaghter knows and feels that her dependance is not right, but she's not in a financial position to be able to do anything about it).
3) You have OP who is fearing treading upon waters and boundaries that are a sensitive issue for both these people.

The fact is that the car the daughter uses is also not hers... so she cannot really sell it and seek less expensive transportation for herself. Sounds like the daughter "owns" nothing but a lot of debts.

Is it the "family" that has that debt? Whomever "owes" the debt on the daughters car... that car may be the key to two other drivable useable cars. I cannot tell without numbers, budget, etc.

It is a mess.... but it's a mess for all.

[lovcom]

Originally Posted by Seeker

luvcom,

How would it be "immoral" for the mother to take the car? Would therefore a gift of an auto from parents, be immoral for sons/daughers to accept? Or is that different somehow?

In my view, a gift is a gift, no matter its source. It would have been nice if daughter could afford what she had planned... but life unfortunately does not always work out nicely.

People come from many different cultures with unique traditions and values toward "family." We each do the best we can.... but "shoulds" and "should nots" do not hold true for every person. When we make a judgement, it needs to consider the people involved and events that have happened that are not listed. "Family" means love and sharing, sometimes even when it hurts.

I feel for all the people in this situation.

1) You have Mom with transportation needs
2) You have daughter with financial issues and "guilt" issues (duaghter knows and feels that her dependance is not right, but she's not in a financial position to be able to do anything about it).
3) You have OP who is fearing treading upon waters and boundaries that are a sensitive issue for both these people.

The fact is that the car the daughter uses is also not hers... so she cannot really sell it and seek less expensive transportation for herself. Sounds like the daughter "owns" nothing but a lot of debts.

Is it the "family" that has that debt? Whomever "owes" the debt on the daughters car... that car may be the key to two other drivable useable cars. I cannot tell without numbers, budget, etc.

It is a mess.... but it's a mess for all.

I think it is safe to assume that buying a car for mom would hold back daughter termendously, and since that is probably the case, then it would in fact be immoral for mom to allow this to happen.

Parents should never hold back their children. Parents are to give to them until the children are late teens/early 20s, and if a parent has to give beyond those ages then the parent did a terrible job raising the child.

And if a child has to give such a huge gift to their parent/s, then the parent/s did a terrible job taking care of themselves.

Cultures that trample boundries so easily, have a high sense of entitlement are unAmerican, and go against what America stands for. It would be a mistake to equate love with such giving...this is not love, this is need and taking advantage of others....this is socialism-type paradigms that are not compatible with the American way....it may work in Mexico or China, but it is a shameful way to live here in the states.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Well, for sure, this forum's focus is not "The American Way." This is the internet, for goodness sakes. People may be from anywhere on earth.

[LuxLiving]

lovcom said:

"Parents should never hold back their children. Parents are to give to them until the children are late teens/early 20s, and if a parent has to give beyond those ages then the parent did a terrible job raising the child.

And if a child has to give such a huge gift to their parent/s, then the parent/s did a terrible job taking care of themselves."

Sorry, lovcom, but I think you are painting with an awfully wide brush here. There are many families, mine included, that have disabled people in them who may be dependent on others financially. Just because I've a disabled child/parent who needs help does not mean I/they did a terrible job raising them.

Please!

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by lovcom

I think it is safe to assume that buying a car for mom would hold back daughter termendously, and since that is probably the case, then it would in fact be immoral for mom to allow this to happen.

Parents should never hold back their children. Parents are to give to them until the children are late teens/early 20s, and if a parent has to give beyond those ages then the parent did a terrible job raising the child.

And if a child has to give such a huge gift to their parent/s, then the parent/s did a terrible job taking care of themselves.

Cultures that trample boundries so easily, have a high sense of entitlement are unAmerican, and go against what America stands for. It would be a mistake to equate love with such giving...this is not love, this is need and taking advantage of others....this is socialism-type paradigms that are not compatible with the American way....it may work in Mexico or China, but it is a shameful way to live here in the states.

Immoral is a pretty strong word.... especially used in concert with that which is meant to be a "gift." Accepting and rejecting of gifts has certain connotations in different cultures as well.

Luvcom, you use such words as "never" and "parents are to give to thier children until" and "has to"; each of these statements can be easily countered with specifics (as LuxLiving and Joan have stated).

Do parents really have the obligation to freely give to their child regardless of specifics? Many of us have heard the word "no" as childen; many of us need that "no" from time-to-time.

Anyone who gives to anyone else (regardless of age or relationship) without thoughtfully considering these two questions may be enabling a dependency:

1) Is the need real enough and the situation caused by external or internal factors that the person in need cannot really control?

2) Is the need itself enabling the person to better their situation in the long-run? Will the person likely better their situation if I help them?

In this situation, Mom needs a car to go to work. Will Mom still continue to work without a car? Will Mom & family continue to "help pay" for daughter's car if Mom becomes unable to transport herself to work? What happens to other bills/expenses if Mom loses her job?

Life is a circle and every decision usually affects at least one other person.

"Boundaries trampled"? Not all cultures have "boundaries" so how can you trample them? I've also seen many "Americans" with that sense of "entitlement" that you say is so unAmerican.

Many cultures or families within cultures do indeed operate as a team.... and approaching life as a team is not always a "bad" thing. Boundaries can be a positive or a negative; it really depends on the individuals in question.

American families are composed of many ancestries as well. Many people (regardless of tradition or culture) choose their own ways (pick and choose among those ideas we would like to encompass)... especially when we marry and combine traditions and ideas.

Very few people are 100% of their background... and nobody deserves to be automatically grouped with their race, class, gender, culture or whatever we tend to judge individuals by.

[watsoninc]

I just received an update today regarding the car. My friend was able to find a reliable car for her mom. The total cost was $6300, of which $2000 came from insurance and the remainder came from the daughter's savings.

Although it's not ideal that the daughter had to use ~50% of her savings, at least she didn't add any debt to this scary financial equation. Thanks for all your thoughts.

BTW, my friend is American, so I don't believe she feels extra cultural responsbility to do this deal per se.

[lovcom]

Originally Posted by Seeker

Immoral is a pretty strong word.... especially used in concert with that which is meant to be a "gift." Accepting and rejecting of gifts has certain connotations in different cultures as well.

Luvcom, you use such words as "never" and "parents are to give to thier children until" and "has to"; each of these statements can be easily countered with specifics (as LuxLiving and Joan have stated).

Do parents really have the obligation to freely give to their child regardless of specifics? Many of us have heard the word "no" as childen; many of us need that "no" from time-to-time.

Anyone who gives to anyone else (regardless of age or relationship) without thoughtfully considering these two questions may be enabling a dependency:

1) Is the need real enough and the situation caused by external or internal factors that the person in need cannot really control?

2) Is the need itself enabling the person to better their situation in the long-run? Will the person likely better their situation if I help them?

In this situation, Mom needs a car to go to work. Will Mom still continue to work without a car? Will Mom & family continue to "help pay" for daughter's car if Mom becomes unable to transport herself to work? What happens to other bills/expenses if Mom loses her job?

Life is a circle and every decision usually affects at least one other person.

"Boundaries trampled"? Not all cultures have "boundaries" so how can you trample them? I've also seen many "Americans" with that sense of "entitlement" that you say is so unAmerican.

Many cultures or families within cultures do indeed operate as a team.... and approaching life as a team is not always a "bad" thing. Boundaries can be a positive or a negative; it really depends on the individuals in question.

American families are composed of many ancestries as well. Many people (regardless of tradition or culture) choose their own ways (pick and choose among those ideas we would like to encompass)... especially when we marry and combine traditions and ideas.

Very few people are 100% of their background... and nobody deserves to be automatically grouped with their race, class, gender, culture or whatever we tend to judge individuals by.

You very conveniently twist my words and put words in my mouth.

Just because a particular country has a culture that lacks boundries, does not make it moral or right.

I've spent time in eastern Europe (just one example) and in some of those cultures, and for centuries, there is a lack of boundries and respect from individual to individual, and across generations.

So lets NOT cover up immorality by placing it in a cute little box called "culture".

Lack of respect for others is always wrong, and for the prior gen to take from the new gen is wrong anywhere in the universe. And parents should only support their offspring up to a certain age, and then it should stop.

I'd rather shoot myself in the head then to expect my daughters to support me, feed me, shelter me....I love and respect them too much to put that on them, which will take their focus off their own kids, husband, and lives and onto me....IMMORAL!