Pet Peve: "you make good money, but you top out quickly"

[red92s]

So my brother just married a recent graduate (may 2009) of a very good pharmacy program. Typical entry-level salary for retail pharmacy is in the $110-$120k range. She has zero debt (public in-state tuiton).

Frequently I hear other young professionals in other fields make the argument that "yeah you start off high in pharmacy but you don't really go above that". This really irks me. These are people who probably started in the $50k range right out of school. They don't seem to realize that having that type of liquid income early on in your career opens a LOT of doors: My brother can finish grad school without working, and they just bought a nice house on her income alone. They will rapidly pay down their mortgage after he starts working and save many, many thousands in interest.

Meanwhile people in other fields may reach that income level after 10 years or so. I doubt you'd ever really catch up in net earnings over a career when someone has a head-start on you like that, especially once you factor in compounding and interest avoidance.

What irks me even more is the insinuation that one person earning several times the median income of an American FAMILY is somehow insufficient or inadequate.

/soapbox

[Radiance]

People don't want to hear they could do better for themselves. I would ignore them or say:
"With that startup I really don't mind to top out,
I can live off 40k and retire early, ahhh, so nice"

Good for your brother!

[m3racer]

Originally Posted by red92s

So my brother just married a recent graduate (may 2009) of a very good pharmacy program. Typical entry-level salary for retail pharmacy is in the $110-$120k range. She has zero debt (public in-state tuiton).

Frequently I hear other young professionals in other fields make the argument that "yeah you start off high in pharmacy but you don't really go above that". This really irks me. These are people who probably started in the $50k range right out of school. They don't seem to realize that having that type of liquid income early on in your career opens a LOT of doors: My brother can finish grad school without working, and they just bought a nice house on her income alone. They will rapidly pay down their mortgage after he starts working and save many, many thousands in interest.

Meanwhile people in other fields may reach that income level after 10 years or so. I doubt you'd ever really catch up in net earnings over a career when someone has a head-start on you like that, especially once you factor in compounding and interest avoidance.

What irks me even more is the insinuation that one person earning several times the median income of an American FAMILY is somehow insufficient or inadequate.

/soapbox

Sounds like your just hating because you're unhappy with your own situation. If you want to make more $$$ than go get a higher paying job.

[disneysteve]

I understand your point, but there is some truth to this. I'm a physician and that's a field that exemplifies this. My income has been the same for about 6 years now and will likely stay the same for the forseeable future. No cost of living increases. No annual raises or bonuses. Yes I earn a very nice income and I'm certainly not complaining, but how many others have seen no pay increase for the past 6-7 years? The other thing to consider is that the fields, such as medicine, that have that type of pay structure, also tend to require advanced degrees. That means that people working in those fields get a later start in the workforce and often have significant student loans to go along with it. I didn't start working as a full-fledged doctor until a few weeks before my 29th birthday. By then, most of my friends from college were well established in their careers, having been working for 7 or 8 years at that point. And friends from high school who got jobs straight out of school not requiring a degree had been working for 11 years already. Plus, many of those folks are in jobs with full government pensions after 20 years. I'll work for 35 years and have no pension.

So I can see the other side of this, though I certainly understand why it annoys you when people complain about it.

[ActYourWage]

Sometimes it is the amount saved not the amount earned over the long haul.

[red92s]

Originally Posted by m3racer

Sounds like your just hating because you're unhappy with your own situation. If you want to make more $$$ than go get a higher paying job.

I fail to see where my own income has any relevance in the above post.

[m3racer]

Originally Posted by red92s

I fail to see where my own income has any relevance in the above post.

Than why make a comment that makes it seem like your jealous of his compensation? If you want to make a higher base salary than put in the time and go to school longer.

[investingnoob]

Top out in the 6 figures...wow that would be sick...I get an annual cost of living raise of like 50cents /hr

[red92s]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

I'm a physician and that's a field that exemplifies this. The other thing to consider is that the fields, such as medicine, that have that type of pay structure, also tend to require advanced degrees. That means that people working in those fields get a later start in the workforce and often have significant student loans to go along with it. I didn't start working as a full-fledged doctor until a few weeks before my 29th birthday.nt pensions after 20 years.

Yeah I can see how this is a consideration in the medical field. Her situation is different in that she finished her degree at the age of 23 and was able to complete it without acquiring any debt . . . which greatly impacts the net earning picture when compared to the additional time and monetary requirements of an MD.

For pharmacy, there is always the option of going to work for the private drug companies if you don't like the idea of salary stagnation. Lord knows there is no profits there, right?

From what I recall don't you own your own practice? Does your bottom line just increase at an equal or greater rate than the rates for providing service (which always seem to go up)? I guess there is a chicken/egg discussion there, right?

Originally Posted by m3racer

Than why make a comment that makes it seem like your jealous of his compensation? If you want to make a higher base salary than put in the time and go to school longer.

Again, I don't know what comment you are referring to that implies jealousy. Sure, it'd be a nice spot to be in, but I'm compensated more than fairly for my age, education, and experience level.

[whitestripe]

Originally Posted by m3racer

Sounds like your just hating because you're unhappy with your own situation. If you want to make more $$$ than go get a higher paying job.

i think you read the OP's post wrong, m3racer. go back and re-read it. to me, they do not sound 'unhappy with their own situation', merely stating what a good position the brothers partner is in.

or am I reading it wrong???

[red92s]

Originally Posted by whitestripe

i think you read the OP's post wrong, m3racer. go back and re-read it. to me, they do not sound 'unhappy with their own situation', merely stating what a good position the brothers partner is in.

or am I reading it wrong???

Yeah . . . as stated above, I can't really complain about my personal economy.

[am_vanquish]

Originally Posted by red92s

Yeah I can see how this is a consideration in the medical field. Her situation is different in that she finished her degree at the age of 23 and was able to complete it without acquiring any debt . . . which greatly impacts the net earning picture when compared to the additional time and monetary requirements of an MD.

It seems like the issue of graduating with so much debt from an advanced degree program is the larger issue I graduated in 2008 & I was very involved in our school's Honors Program. Unfortunately, I found a TON of pressure among these advisors and students to go become a doctor or lawyer or veterinarian or .... it got old. I'm one of only a handful of students who didn't attend graduate school at all. Since graduation, I've found a nice job with a nice salary that will grow quite well in the future. Since May of 2008, I've been able to jumpstart my savings to the tune of about $30,000. Meanwhile, my friends who are in school to become lawyers/doctors/psychologists ... they've racked up a TON of debt in student loans. By the time they graduate, I expect them to out-earn me for about 2-3 years, then I'll catch back up to them. But they'll still paying on a six-figure student loan and I'll have a 6-figure retirement account

I've never really heard people complain about topping out. I've got friends who have recently graduated with expensive graduate degrees (2 Optometrists, 1 Vet) who complain quite often about their student debt. Your brother's wife is the exception to the rule, not the standard. The people you think are just being jealous have a very good point. A professional degree is often not worth the delayed start for large paychecks and high amounts of student debt.

[red92s]

Originally Posted by am_vanquish

It seems like the issue of graduating with so much debt from an advanced degree program is the larger issue.

Yeah definitely. She graduated with a Doctorate degree in about 5.5 years without going through the process of getting a BS or MS. It seems sort of odd that you can jump straight to a doctorate without having a bachelors degree, but that is probably a large part of why it is so financially attractive.

[buildmybudget]

The young professionals yourereferring to simply just don't understand how money works. If they can't see why it would be more beneficial to earn more earlier, they just need a lesson on compounding.

[wincrasher]

well everything is supply and demand isn't it. If the schools were spewing out thousands and thousands of un-needed pharmacists, then the price would drop.

Almost all professional positions have only modest yearly increases - you have to get promoted to get alot more money.

Just like any other career, a pharmacist would have option to make more money too - they could move into management of the retail operation they work for, they could take a job with a pharma or research faciltiy, they could start their own retail business, etc.

As an engineer, I started off at a good salary, but the raises were generally 2 to 3% a year like clockwork. So I moved into project management, then eventually worked as a consultant. My first job in 1988 paid $27k a year. Last year I made ~ $297K. That may sound obscene to some of you. But I'm worth it. How do I know that? Because someone is willing to pay it. If they want to pay less, then I'm worth less. If more, then I'm worth more. That's how it works for all careers.

[wnlbutterfly]

I hear teachers complaining because their payscale is set to where they do get a raise for "time served"..HA, but at a certain point it tops out (and not on the very high end of course) and the only way to add to the income past that is to take more classes or earn a Masters. A lot of teachers will do this, but some are too busy teaching and sending their own children to college. And of course it means taking on new debt maybe even student loans again.

I think it would be great to start out your career with a high end salary like that and a chance to be debt free early in your lifetime. With good budgeting they could really invest and come out WAY ahead! Good for them!

[cptacek]

I like how you think, WinCrasher! I completely agree!

[red92s]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

As an engineer, I started off at a good salary, but the raises were generally 2 to 3% a year like clockwork. So I moved into project management, then eventually worked as a consultant. My first job in 1988 paid $27k a year. Last year I made ~ $297K. That may sound obscene to some of you. But I'm worth it. How do I know that? Because someone is willing to pay it. If they want to pay less, then I'm worth less. If more, then I'm worth more. That's how it works for all careers.

I'm in engineering also, but in the very early stages of a career. The above sounds very much like my idea of a career progression I'd like to follow. I had no idea the payscale went that high for project management, but I must have glossed over the consultant part . . . I've been blown away at what our corporation pays some of our consultants.

[toboramai]

Originally Posted by red92s

I'm in engineering also, but in the very early stages of a career. The above sounds very much like my idea of a career progression I'd like to follow. I had no idea the payscale went that high for project management, but I must have glossed over the consultant part . . . I've been blown away at what our corporation pays some of our consultants.

I do consulting work. Its a hard life. Most consultants are not independent contractors so do not get the full amount paid out by the companies. Independent contractors make the real money.

[wincrasher]

You are right baby! You get to eat what you kill.