If you can save...why not just finance?

[AmbitiousSaver]

Ok, so after sitting down and figuring out a budget and how we're going to pay for our debts... set aside money every month to account for future goals (buy a car in cash, etc, etc) I figured out to do what we want to do for the next 9 years... we need to save a set amount a month

So I tell DH he can get a motorcycle in 2011

To which he say "Why don't you just tell me I can't get one then? Cause in 3 years something else will come up and I can't get one." He's up in arms about this cause earlier I told him we could use our tax return next year and get him a motorcycle, which with adjusting our withholding to pay down the CC debt... is no longer an option.

So I say "Look, all I'm saying is if you really want one, just set aside $175/mo for 3 years" and he responds "Why can't we just finance one for $175/mo if we can save that $175?"

And I told him "Cause we're paying interest on it every month vs EARNING interest"

Is there a way I can help change his thinking or make him see what I'm trying to do? His thinking doesn't make sense, right? And I'm not good at explaining things like that... he just thinks this is my round about way of saying we'll never get one

I'm just thinking "Jeez, he should be glad I'm thinking about HIS goal of a motorcycle and not MY goal for a horse." At least I'm trying to think of a plan to make it happen vs throwing my hands up in the air and saying "My dreams will never come true"

[LuxLiving]

In a way, he's right. Something WILL come up! However, if you are locked into the $175 a month payment you can make no adjustment, that payment HAS TO BE sent. If you are saving and you need the 175 that month for a minor emergency then okay, you spend it for the emergency and then get back on track to the savings. PROVING that you NEED to have an emergency fund and the desire for a motorcycle is a WANT until everything else is taken care of F.I.R.S.T.

I get tongue tied in these situations too!

[skydivingchic]

Sounds like you two are not on the same page yet. In order for this to work, you BOTH have to be willing to give some things up to get out of debt. That includes delaying purchases which haven't been adequately saved for.

You both need to sit down together and decide together what your goals are and how much each will cost. Right now it seems as if your top priority is to get out of debt and his is not. The first rule when you find yourself in a hole is to STOP DIGGING. Going further into the hole by adding debt (i.e.. financing anything) needs to be avoided - it just makes the hole that much deeper.

But you can't make him change his thinking - he has to want the debt gone too. Your explanation to him is correct - saving for the motorcycle will earn you interest while financing will cost additional money. But if he is not ready to see things that way, there's not much you can do about it.

One thing that might help is to give yourselves an allowance that can be used for whatever you choose. If he wants the motorcycle badly enough, he can save his allowance for that. Maybe you could also reach some type of agreement that if he earns extra money by selling stuff or getting a second job, some (or all) of that money can go toward the motorcycle savings.

[Snave]

Wasn't financing things (like everything that is on the credit cards) what got you in your situation in the first place?

[maat55]

Sounds like you got one big little boy. I payed cash for my motorcycle last year and still sold it to tweak my money makeover. His heart needs to be in this plan or he will cry like a baby from now on.

Beg him to read The Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey. Or even go to his financial peace university. I can tell you are ready to have financial peace, I pray you can find a way to get him on board with you, good luck.

[AmbitiousSaver]

Yeah... ugh... I can tell this is going to take a LOT of discussion with him. And don't be surprised if I post for support to stay strong and ride out his temper tantrums... part of what has gotten into this mess is I'll tell him no, he'll have a temper tantrum... and I'm not evil... I want my partner to be happy, so finally I give in.

We went on a looonnnnnggggg drive. Probably a bad waste of gas but it was my only way to think of keeping him out and allow us to talk (if we are home he can tune me out with the TV).

His wants remind me of mine... my Dad has/is recovering from CANCER and is 67. He lives in Hawaii and this was his 2nd brain tumor... the first one partially handicapped him. I want to visit him SOOOO bad, but can't cause we can't afford it. Which is pitiful... when I sat down... we take home almost $6000 a month (not counting the rental) and we can't afford to see my father who has cancer? DH complains he's going to be 40 when he can finally get a motorcycle... so I told him my Dad will be dead before we can afford to go back... doesn't he realize I have just as much if not MORE to be disappointed about?

We want too much.... I actually suggested he go IA (something he's been suggesting to me to do to get out of debt). He'd be gone for a year in Iraq. We agree on our month to month budget... but can't agree on our goals or what to save for.

He tried equating my masters degree to him wanting a motorcycle, and I said No, my masters can earn me more money. I'm just ARRRRGHHHH!! Frustrated. I love him... but him going to Iraq for a year has suddenly become very tempting since he's not willing to budge on his goals.

He wants to spend $6K on a motorcycle, $1500 to see his family... I want $9000 for my master's degree and $8000 to have my family go back to Hawaii so my Dad can see the baby and I can too.

The conversation was never fully resolved. I told him I'll figure out how to get him a motorcycle if he figures out how to let me see my family in Hawaii. I don't know...

But I can tell this is going to definitely be a process... take a lot of discussions and not be overnight... yet I'm still very thankful to have found this forum cause at least we can agree on a month to month budget.

Now we just need to work on the next step.... our goals... cause thats where we argue. In DH's words "I'm not going to wait 3 years to have a motorcycle... I'll be 33 then... what's the point?" Or "You want to be debt free so that means we should live like paupers till we're 40" (which really - if we worked on this for 4 years... we'd be entirely debt free besides the mortgage)

Anyhow, thanks for listening to me vent... and again... I appreciate any advice. Even if its just encouragement to keep me from giving into his ideas.

[DayByDay]

Maybe he's a visual learner. Find one of the interest calculators online and show him the actual amount the motorcycle will cost him if he did it his way (cost of motorcyle + interest) vs. your way (cash price of motorcycle - interest earned in savings account).

[maat55]

Unlike you, I had to force my financial goals on my wife. Our kids are gone and I refuse to ever go into debt or retire broke. Your husband whining for a motorcycle while you two are financially stressed, is borderline retarded. I feel for ya, best wishes.

[Seeker]

I get the impression that the husband's wanting a motorcycle is after being rejected time-after-time-after-time again; not only for a motorcycle but for other things.

Ambi- in another post you wrote that you saw your Dad last May.... May '07? How long has it been since he's seen his family? For him to see his costs $1,500 for you to see yours costs $8,000. I realize that your Dad is fighting cancer but doesn't this (8k per year) sound a bit excessive?

If you spent 8k last year, his asking for 1.5 + 6k does not seem like a whole lot to ask for? If he's going to Iraq, he may need to clear some things up with his family too.

I guess I'm seeing the "want" situation as a competition between the two of you. And is causing stress and grief on both sides. Marriage is about give and take; it's about compromise. It's about bad times as well as good times.

You are 27 years old and he's 30. You have 4 younger children depending on the two of you. You've been married 9 years and everything is borderline at the moment; you're living on the edge and are in the "red" financially. And you both are pushing each other away.

Frankly both of you adults need to discard your "wants" until your needs are not in the negative. If it means working part time and postponing your PhD, then maybe you should do that. If he can work more, then maybe he should do that too.

Your postings are putting up a bunch of red flags for me and I have this impending sense of marriage failure.

[MiikeB]

8k to go to hawaii seems excessive, so does 1.5k to fly to see him family. What makes up these expenses?

Also, your husband is military. Have you looked at flying Space-A? If you are not aware of this, basically it is a program setup where military members and there families can sign up to take flights from military bases on planes that are carrying troops or supplies to other bases on a space available basis. The downside is there is very little advance notice, you just have to show up on that day and hope there is room on the flight. The positive is that active duty military and family is top priority on the waiting list.

You should look into this and then call the nearest airfield and maybe they can let you know what your chances of getting to Hawaii space a are.

*edit, not sure on posting links here so just google military space available flight and you will get good stuff.

[AmbitiousSaver]

We're actually trying to plan to see his family this year... my family next year. So we go 2 years between seeing each other's family. I've tried not to make the trip to Hawaii excessive, but 6 plane tickets costs a lot. From our last trip (which we only made cause my Dad paid for the airfare for 5 people).... by having the mileage from our last trip paying for one of the plane tickets... so we only have to buy 5, the hotel which is a military hotel that is tax free. But now, we have one extra person so we are no longer allowed to have 1 room anymore... thus increasing the costs.

My best friend offered us to stay with her but DH doesn't want to... but that would save us $1500. He says her place is too small (2 bedroom 1000 sq ft condo)... my friend knows there are 6 of us and thinks it would work, but DH still doesn't want to.... I've also told him I could just take that "free" ticket... stay with my best friend and go back by myself with the baby. But he wants to go too.

I don't know... our conversation yesterday ended with us both deciding seeing family is important. He's supposed to get some extra travel pay this summer that should allow us to pay to see his family in cash... and in October, he gets a bonus. We were going to use that to pay down the credit card, but use that to pay for the plane tickets in cash. So although we aren't paying down the credit card as fast as we would like... we are still paying it down every month and not adding to it. Then between October and April (which is when I plan to see my family)... I can come up with the rest in cash. So both trips are paid for with cash.

That leaves the motorcycle and my master's degree up in the air... but we're still talking. This isn't going to be solved in one long conversation and we both know that. He's still my best friend... and I am his... I did mention if he REALLY wants a motorcycle... maybe we could sell his car and downsize his car to afford a car we can buy in cash and a motorcycle in cash. I mentioned that yesterday and he said it wouldn't work.... but now he's thinking about it. We'll see, but yeah... this will be a process. Main thing is, we aren't really SURE what we are going to do in respect to our goals yet... in the meantime till we can come to a resolution, we are saving and paying down the CC. The whole situation is overwhelming so I know its going to take a lot of discussion between him and I before we reach that "financial peace" where we know the answer and are both 100% okay with it. It took him and I a month of negotiation when I had to sell my car and his motorcycle to downsize to his commuter car.

[AmbitiousSaver]

Originally Posted by MiikeB

8k to go to hawaii seems excessive, so does 1.5k to fly to see him family. What makes up these expenses?

Also, your husband is military. Have you looked at flying Space-A? If you are not aware of this, basically it is a program setup where military members and there families can sign up to take flights from military bases on planes that are carrying troops or supplies to other bases on a space available basis. The downside is there is very little advance notice, you just have to show up on that day and hope there is room on the flight. The positive is that active duty military and family is top priority on the waiting list.

You should look into this and then call the nearest airfield and maybe they can let you know what your chances of getting to Hawaii space a are.

*edit, not sure on posting links here so just google military space available flight and you will get good stuff.

The 1.5K to see his family is driving to see his family. The most expensive part being lodging because we can no longer stay in 1 hotel room anymore. So $750 for hotel ($59/night for 2 rooms weeklong trip plus tax), $500 for gas, $250 for food.... unfortunately neither of our families have the ability for us to stay with them. Food is probably overshot cause we are staying where we don't have to worry about breakfast but we just rounded the number up.

[maat55]

I think you should look at the possibililty of just you going to see your dad and him his parents. I think your families would understand that, 8 traveling is a problem. These trips alone are a financial disaster. Family visits should never be a huge burden, think about it.

[scfr]

Originally Posted by maat55

I think you should look at the possibililty of just you going to see your dad and him his parents.

That's exactly what I was going to suggest.
Is there any reason why you couldn't just each go seperately and on your own? It would certainly make the trips much more financially feasible.

[cicy33]

I am married to the same type of man. He wants me to give up everything for the budget and paying stuff off but won't do without himself. very frustrating. I tend to agree with others, revisit the idea of seeing your dad by yourself with the baby. I disagree, strongly, that you should give up your education just because he wants a motorcycle. Those two are not even in the same universe. A motorcycle, especially an unneeded vehicle, is a frivolous want. Your education can help you achieve a higher salary which can help get your family the things they want later on. Is there any grants that can help you pay for college? Good luck. I do know what you are going through.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Would the visit with parents be just as fulfilling if you paid to fly the parents to your home, rather than you all try to drive or fly to see them? This assumes parents would be able to travel, of course.

[Onwards]

Would he consider some kind of "matching" agreement? Like for every cent you put towards the motorcycle, you also match that amount towards a family vacation (or whatever). That way you'll both be motivated to cut costs because the savings will go equally into both goals.

[AmbitiousSaver]

Originally Posted by Joan.of.the.Arch

Would the visit with parents be just as fulfilling if you paid to fly the parents to your home, rather than you all try to drive or fly to see them? This assumes parents would be able to travel, of course.

I can see this happening with more my family than his... his mom is extremely morbidly obese... but she isn't opposed to taking the bus and we've actually in the past paid for her bus ticket to come visit. She stayed with me for a month in 2006. His Dad however won't travel.

My Dad... and I've actually started to have this discussion with him since I look to him for a lot of advice. He's told me not to worry about seeing them, that getting my degree is what he recommends cause it will open us up for opportunities so we can actually afford the things we want later. Of course though, while knowing he is recovering from cancer and is approaching his 70s.... its hard for me to hear... and not really what I want to hear. In his words "Its hard to be patient when you want certain things but you need to do the right thing and get your education taken care of."

We're working at it though, I notice when I get depressed about it I transfer what I have in savings to the credit card and it makes me feel better. I transferred another $347 to pay it down today (even though I paid $2585 on it Friday) just cause if I get used to that money around I might use it on something I really shouldn't. I'm sure if I have enough "down" moments and keep doing this the CC will be gone before I realize it.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

6 tickets to hawaii = $8k? No way. You can definitely get it cheaper than that. My mom, grandma, aunt all came from Hawaii to Boston for $422 ($475 including all taxes) May 1 to May 8th.

Where are you leaving from? You need to shop around and be flexible with dates for coming and going. The ONLY time of year when it's really expensive and impossible to buy to go home to hawaii is Christmas.

My cousin is military and OFTEN flies home to hawaii on military flights for free. The cargo, where you aren't sure if you are going. Why not go do that if money is really tight.

Even if you fly interisland in hawaii it's $60/one way so $120 x 6 = $720. It used to be $9/one way for some flights.

There is an easy way to go to hawaii for cheap. From the east coast it shouldn't cost more than $800 on a peak time (summer). So $4800 for a family of 6. Where is this $8k coming from? And like I said off peak like my mom got under $500.

[AmbitiousSaver]

Originally Posted by LivingAlmostLarge

6 tickets to hawaii = $8k? No way. You can definitely get it cheaper than that. My mom, grandma, aunt all came from Hawaii to Boston for $422 ($475 including all taxes) May 1 to May 8th.

Where are you leaving from? You need to shop around and be flexible with dates for coming and going. The ONLY time of year when it's really expensive and impossible to buy to go home to hawaii is Christmas.

My cousin is military and OFTEN flies home to hawaii on military flights for free. The cargo, where you aren't sure if you are going. Why not go do that if money is really tight.

Even if you fly interisland in hawaii it's $60/one way so $120 x 6 = $720. It used to be $9/one way for some flights.

There is an easy way to go to hawaii for cheap. From the east coast it shouldn't cost more than $800 on a peak time (summer). So $4800 for a family of 6. Where is this $8k coming from? And like I said off peak like my mom got under $500.

The $8K is the TOTAL trip... food, rental car, hotel, gas, and airfare. I'm only expecting between 4-5K for airfare. Hotel is $216 a night cause we have to have 2 hotel rooms. We priced rental cars with DH's gov't discount and my AAA discount for a minivan and its $530 for an 8 day stay. So $1460 for hotel, $5000 for airfare (I'm watching airfare prices now for when we are trying to go in April cause that is the girls' spring break and they can't miss anymore school or risk getting held back... right now they are between $858-$1058 pp plus $41 in ticket fees), $550 for rental car after additional taxes, $150 for gas for the rental car, and $1000 for food for 8 days for 6 people... thats about $6.94 meal per person.... which all totals to $8160. When we plan for trips we try to plan out the total cost, not just what it costs to get there.

All that said... I'm considering holding off on the Hawaii trip till October so we can be more flexible about the kids missing school and my college courses end last week of April soooo if we go to Hawaii in April there is a high likelihood I'd be missing finals or something important.