How to be fair with saving and bills?

[MelC]

My fiance is from England. He work for himself for his UK based company. He has UK bank accounts. He cannot open up a bank account here because he is not a citizen and does not work for a US company. This will be the case even we get married (he does not want to become a citizen for business reasons).

SO now about his business.. he is a consultant and works when work comes in. He makes good money when hes working. Hes actually been working almost every day and some weekend days since the start of this year. Today was the first day with no work, so now to worry- when will the next project start? He makes about $350/day. I make 2K/month.

He has a flat in the UK which he is renting out so gets the mortgage paid that way. We just bought a house here together with a 1200K/mo mortgage. Monthly basic bills are all we really have besides that, no car loan or credit card debt.

OK, so how do we make fair savings and paying monthly bills? 10% of my paychecks go to my IRA through work. He doesnt allocate anything towards savings, but he said he'd start contributing $150/mo to my ING acct (again he cant open one here). I also contribute $150/mo to my ING acct. I have stretched myself to the limit with contributing to my IRA and the ING acct.

He has been giving me $500 month for bills.. I just dont know if its fair. And that goes both ways. He has UK bills he had before we met (taxes, etc) and I have US stuff I had before we met (student loans).. When he is working, he makes way more than I do. But my work is consistent.

I think he should put a fixed percentage of his pay into a savings acct in case he goes a certain amount of time without work. I also get $500/mo child support. We could basically live on my salary, even more reason to save his incase we chose to have kids and I stayed home..

Any advice out there??

[MiikeB]

What does he do with the rest of the money?

You say he is your fiance, but this does not sound like a committed relationship.

Maybe it is just me, but IMO you should not have "his bills" and "your bills." Especially after you "bought a house together."

It should be a list of all bills, including his mortage and your loans.

Then there should be a list of all income, including what he gets from renting and makes contracting on average after taxes (best to be cautious with this, if he normally works 18 days a month maybe just budget on him working 15).

You should subtract the first list from the second list, then look at whats leftover every month. From there you should both decide how much to save and where (IRAs, ING etc) and how much each of you should have in personal spending money (these amounts do not have to be equal though).

If you factor his average salary at working x number of days then I would have a seperate account to set aside money from any extra days he works for months when he works less.

From your post it just sounds like there is to much his/your money thinking for a soon to be marriage.

[disneysteve]

I'm with MiikeB. I don't go for this my money/his money nonsense. Deposit ALL income into one account. From that, pay your bills and living expenses and fund your retirement accounts. Build an emergency fund. In your case, since his work is inconsistent, I'd suggest 6-9 months of living expenses. Then, you should be fully funding your Roth, not just $200/month. Use some of his income to make up the difference.

ETA: Forget the word "fair" in this context. You're getting married and functioning as a team. It doesn't have to be fair nor will it be fair. You can't sit there and calculate that he earns 75% of the income so he should pay 75% of the bills. It doesn't work that way.

[sweeps]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

Forget the word "fair" in this context. You're getting married and functioning as a team. It doesn't have to be fair nor will it be fair. You can't sit there and calculate that he earns 75% of the income so he should pay 75% of the bills. It doesn't work that way.

Great comment. And not just financially I would add. Sometimes one person bears more of the load in a marriage, and sometimes the other person does. Keeping score can be dangerous.

[jIM_Ohio]

If his work is sporadic, he should plan on having 12 months expenses in the bank. That appears to be around the $500/month he pays you.

He should also be setting aside around 15% for retirement. have him wire 15% every check to a UK bank account/investment account. I would guess some banks would allow him to have a UK based account and accept US deposits.

[GoodBuyGirl]

I think you will have a difficult road ahead being citizens of different countries.
My DH earns quite a bit more than I do. All of our money earned is combined into joint accounts that we both have access to. The left hand always knows what the right one is doing.
Not only should you trust your mate with your heart you should also be able to trust them with your money.

[KatieNK]

I think you should give all your money to your sister.

[MelC]

Hmm maybe I didnt make myself clear when I said "fair"..

I guess what I mean is, I want to make sure he is saving enough, I am saving everything I can.

We are recently engaged (within the last couple weeks) and I am trying to figure out all this money stuff before we get married so it isnt an issue later.

He is really open to anything and is somewhat confused just like me.

We looked into wiring money and him just taking over bills, but there are always fees. Itd just be easier if he could have an account here where he could wire money back and forth easily and free!

The reason I was talking about his bills and my bills are because I want it to be fair as possible, no one person taking on more than the other. Its hard when his pay is sporadic and I never know how much is coming. This is why I was asking advice on what percentages are good rules of thumb.

We did discuss him opening his own 401K (or equivalent for UK) and him transfering a certain amount from each check to it. He hasnt done this and references his flat in England as being his retirement fund (double in value in 5 years and only going up).

I wanted to clarify that he is not being sneaky or trying to keep his money for himself and mine for me.. I just cant figure this all out.
Some good advice given, thank you!

[sweeps]

I'd recommend sitting down with your fiance and coming up with goals first -- short-term, medium-term, long-term. Once you come up with those goals, you can find out how much you need to save. Then look at all the options available to both of you and find out the best vehicles for meeting those goals. For example if his retirement plan offered a match and yours does not, you'll probably want to take his advantage of his plan first. Or if the Roth IRA is a better option than similar plans in the UK, you should probably take advantage of that.

As long as you've both thought it through and agreed to the plan, I don't think you'll have to worry about the fairness issue.

One comment concerned me though:

We did discuss him opening his own 401K (or equivalent for UK) and him transfering a certain amount from each check to it. He hasnt done this and references his flat in England as being his retirement fund (double in value in 5 years and only going up).

If you're going to put your eggs into one basket, I wouldn't make it real estate (and especially just one apartment). A diversified stock fund blows away all other investments over the long term.

[MelC]

Thanks sweeps. Ive been having a hard time convincing him that he needs to start a retirement fund and not rely soley on the house. I do not expect him to sell his place because it is an investment thats growing, but he needs to start a retirement account too.

Or would you recommend selling the house and putting a majority of the proceeds into a retirement account?? It scares me that hes here and his flat is there.. He wants to have a broker take care of his house but currently that is not happening. he is just lucky to so far have a reliable tenant.

[scrava]

Congrats on your engagement! Trying to figure out what to do with your joint money and bills is tough. I think it's great that you are taking the time to talk about it & plan. I woudl say, whatever you decide to do, just give each other periodic updates. FI, I paid these 4 bills with your $500 for the month. What did you pay for in the UK, etc. Maybe if you add him to a joint checking accont here in the US that would help with household expenses. Does FI live here in the US? How often does he travel home?

[sweeps]

No, I wouldn't necessarily sell the flat. If he's getting good cash flow from it and it continues to appreciate in value, it sounds like a good investment. But *in addition* both of you should be contributing to retirement accounts. Contributing just 5% of your income to a pre-tax plan (401k or similar) will make a huge difference in your future and probably doesn't affect your take-home pay as much as you think. Good luck.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by MelC

The reason I was talking about his bills and my bills are because I want it to be fair as possible, no one person taking on more than the other.

And that's exactly what I was saying can't happen. One person WILL take on more than the other. Most of the time, it will probably be him since he earns more. There may also be times when he is not working for a period of time where you will take on more. For good and bad, better and worse, sickness and health, yada, yada, yada. Nothing in those vows about splitting everything evenly and proportionately.

When you get married, you need to stop thinking in terms of "me" and "him" and start thinking in terms of "us".

I've been married for nearly 16 years. Do you think I give any thought whatsoever to whether or not my wife is contributing enough to our finances? Do I think, "Gee, I think last month I earned 80% of the money but paid 84% of the bills"? Not a chance. Money comes in. Money goes out. Every dollar is equal, no matter where it came from or where it is going.

[zetta]

He cannot open up a bank account here because he is not a citizen and does not work for a US company.

I don't know about the employment rules, but I do know that you don't have to be a citizen to open a bank account. If he is in the country legally, he should be able to use documentation of whatever sort of visa he has when opening the account. And once you are married, he can get permanent legal residence and a green card because he is your husband.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by MelC

My fiance is from England. He work for himself for his UK based company. He has UK bank accounts. He cannot open up a bank account here because he is not a citizen and does not work for a US company. This will be the case even we get married (he does not want to become a citizen for business reasons).

SO now about his business.. he is a consultant and works when work comes in. He makes good money when hes working. Hes actually been working almost every day and some weekend days since the start of this year. Today was the first day with no work, so now to worry- when will the next project start? He makes about $350/day. I make 2K/month.

He has a flat in the UK which he is renting out so gets the mortgage paid that way. We just bought a house here together with a 1200K/mo mortgage. Monthly basic bills are all we really have besides that, no car loan or credit card debt.

OK, so how do we make fair savings and paying monthly bills? 10% of my paychecks go to my IRA through work. He doesnt allocate anything towards savings, but he said he'd start contributing $150/mo to my ING acct (again he cant open one here). I also contribute $150/mo to my ING acct. I have stretched myself to the limit with contributing to my IRA and the ING acct.

He has been giving me $500 month for bills.. I just dont know if its fair. And that goes both ways. He has UK bills he had before we met (taxes, etc) and I have US stuff I had before we met (student loans).. When he is working, he makes way more than I do. But my work is consistent.

I think he should put a fixed percentage of his pay into a savings acct in case he goes a certain amount of time without work. I also get $500/mo child support. We could basically live on my salary, even more reason to save his incase we chose to have kids and I stayed home..

Any advice out there??

1) There's such a thing as US Dual Citizenship. You may want to look into it. If he does not want to consider US Citizenship now nor later, you need to ask yourself if you're willing to go back to his country if he loses this job. It sounds as if he's not really wanting to stay in the US (this by virtue of renting out the flat in the UK).

2) Most US Banks require a social security number. As a UK Citizen working for a UK Company... it sounds like he's not interested in obtaining citizenship nor a bank account here. It's probably possible to get a bank account under your SSN. The house is a "we" thing and I don't know how it works to pay such things as property taxes and be constantly transferring money from where it's earned (UK) and where you reside (US)?

3) The part above where I bolded his making approx $350/day (when he works) I'm thinking that you maybe see his contribution of $500/month as a bit unfair to you. This is something you need to discuss with him.


Communication of your concerns especially before marriage can resolve a lot of the "questions" you have here. And it sounds as if you have a few things to discuss. Especially the what if's... and the fairness or lack of fairness that you are feeling.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by MelC

Hmm maybe I didnt make myself clear when I said "fair"..

I guess what I mean is, I want to make sure he is saving enough, I am saving everything I can.

We are recently engaged (within the last couple weeks) and I am trying to figure out all this money stuff before we get married so it isnt an issue later.

He is really open to anything and is somewhat confused just like me.

We looked into wiring money and him just taking over bills, but there are always fees. Itd just be easier if he could have an account here where he could wire money back and forth easily and free!

The reason I was talking about his bills and my bills are because I want it to be fair as possible, no one person taking on more than the other. Its hard when his pay is sporadic and I never know how much is coming. This is why I was asking advice on what percentages are good rules of thumb.

We did discuss him opening his own 401K (or equivalent for UK) and him transfering a certain amount from each check to it. He hasnt done this and references his flat in England as being his retirement fund (double in value in 5 years and only going up).

I wanted to clarify that he is not being sneaky or trying to keep his money for himself and mine for me.. I just cant figure this all out.
Some good advice given, thank you!

Okay, read further into this thread.

Marriage is a teamwork.... there's always something you will be better at than he is and always something he will be better at than you are. Talking and compromising and coming to a decision jointly about the actions you both will take is the definition of teamwork and that's the reality of marriage. Marriages fail because of a lack of communication firstly; and sometimes that lack of communication is about money.

You shouldn't be alone when trying to figure it out. You're both "confused" and part of the problem (as I view this), is the separateness of the two countries and the two of you as far as the financial aspects.

How are you going to do Income Taxes? You separate and he separate? How is the house here done within marriage on tax forms if you're not filing jointly (after marriage)? You have an added confuson because of the legal implication involved with finances being income in two countries; and expenses that will mostly be here once the two of you are married.

I think you both need to talk with a financial advisor and I am unsure of whether or not they can help either. Tax planner maybe? Hopefully someone else can chip in here.... because I don't know enough to be able to recommend much else.

[MelC]

I didnt even consider the tax situation. Ive always filed head of household being a single parent. Can I still do that? He files and pays UK taxes. So it seems legit to me. I file and pay US taxes as I make US dollars and vice versa for him.

Maybe I am worried about the saving part. I thought about it all some more and talked to fiance some more and I think thats where my worries come from. He does technically have way more in savings when you think of what his flat is worth. But I put every penny I can into a 403B (Sorry I said 401K but I meant 403B), into a 529 for my daughters college savings, and ING. He doesnt have a savings acct. I want him to open one and start putting in big chunks of what he makes into it. He says he cant for some reason or another, not big chunks at least.. some sort of rules with owning his own business and accounting for money..

I also suggested he figure out what he can live on (he and we) from his salary and actually "pay" himself that amount each month, including contributing a percentage to a savings plan. The rest he should leave in his business acct so if there is a time he's not working, he can continue to pay himself his regular salary at all times.

He is open to it but getting him to actually DO this is something else. Im going to sit him down this weekend and go over his expenses with him. Hes a long time bachelor so this is all new to him.

I also feel a little helpless NOT knowing how much money he has and all that jazz. I know to the penny what I have at all times and whats coming out when, etc..

[LuxLiving]

Not that they will cover the international aspects, but I do advise the two of you to read "Smart Couples Finish Rich" by David Bach and "The Wealthy Barber" by David Chilton.

[noppenbd]

Originally Posted by MelC

Hmm maybe I didnt make myself clear when I said "fair"..

I guess what I mean is, I want to make sure he is saving enough, I am saving everything I can.

We are recently engaged (within the last couple weeks) and I am trying to figure out all this money stuff before we get married so it isnt an issue later.

He is really open to anything and is somewhat confused just like me.

We looked into wiring money and him just taking over bills, but there are always fees. Itd just be easier if he could have an account here where he could wire money back and forth easily and free!

The reason I was talking about his bills and my bills are because I want it to be fair as possible, no one person taking on more than the other. Its hard when his pay is sporadic and I never know how much is coming. This is why I was asking advice on what percentages are good rules of thumb.

We did discuss him opening his own 401K (or equivalent for UK) and him transfering a certain amount from each check to it. He hasnt done this and references his flat in England as being his retirement fund (double in value in 5 years and only going up).

I wanted to clarify that he is not being sneaky or trying to keep his money for himself and mine for me.. I just cant figure this all out.
Some good advice given, thank you!

I have heard that transferring money from UK to US can be done easily and cheaply through Paypal. You set up a Paypal account and transfer money in from a linked UK bank (in pounds sterling). Then you additionally link a US bank account and you can transfer the money back out in dollars. I think there aren't any fees associated with it if you transfer more than $150. I'm not sure if this helps you, but maybe others can use it.

[MelC]

Thanks Nop. We looked into Paypal once and I think we dumped the idea because of the fees. I believe the fees would be on MY end, as the receiving party. Im going to look into it again!