what is your monthly income?

[M-squared]

Oh and I am saddened by the fact you are comparing people to cows, when I'm not sure that was the point of the poster M-squared.

Nope it wasn't my intention to compare people to cows. In fact, the actual point of my post was kinda missed by Syracuysa. Maybe you got it, AlmostLivingLarge. No matter, I'm not going to get all that fussed about an internet message board, although the flames are sorta pretty to watch.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by M-squared

Nope it wasn't my intention to compare people to cows. In fact, the actual point of my post was kinda missed by Syracuysa. Maybe you got it, AlmostLivingLarge. No matter, I'm not going to get all that fussed about an internet message board, although the flames are sorta pretty to watch.

Your point was not at all missed. I am happy for you that you have such great neighbors. It's just that some people here have problems understanding nuance.

[Ima saver]

I just looked at my social security statement. The most I ever made in one year was $8232. Ya'll know what I drive!!

[sweeps]

Originally Posted by Ima saver

I just looked at my social security statement. The most I ever made in one year was $8232.

Yes, but $8232 was a lot of money back in the 1800's....

Just kidding!

[LuxLiving]

Well, hello garbage can, I drive a truck and I read extensively.

edited to add:

I own some cows. Called the "cattle of kings". I paid cash for them too, just like my truck!

I don't own a big screen TV though or watch sports. Shoot! ...and to think I was almost a stereotype!!


"Money can't buy friends, but you can get a better class of enemy." ~Spike Milligan

[M-squared]

I own some cows. Called the "cattle of kings"

I rather like my bovine neighbors. And the equine ones. One year there were goats. They were a bit loud, bleating all the time like they did.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

LOL Syracusa, I think you missed all of M-squared post about academia as well. But heck maybe your comprehension of american humor is sadly lacking.

I too have owned goats, cows, and pigs. We had goats in the backyard of our home. And my grandparents owed cows, pigs, chickens, ducks. I guess that might be the reason behind a pickup. Although I always though it was the dogs we had.

As for clicking with people, sometimes it's hard to find people to "click" with. But maybe it would be easier if you don't judge them by appearances. Plus if you gave people a chance maybe they will be more than you expect.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

... We don't belong to the country club or send our kids to private school ...Instead, we bought a modest older home in a more working-class neighborhood.

DisneySteve,

This is something I've been meaning to ask you a while ago but with all the digressions about "nice people" vs. "snobs", I missed it.
You mentioned you have a daughter and that you do not send her to private school. Then I assume you send her to the public school corresponding to the working class area you live in, right?

How do you feel about the education she receives there? Have you been pleased with the school she goes to? I am just curious because the school is actually THE MAIN reason why I would want to live in a neighborhood with people I can relate to - which is those who believe in serious education, reading and traveling-with-a-purpose for their kids (and less so in the parochial sports culture).

I did not get the impression that working class neighborhoods have the kind of schools where kids necessarily have those habits instilled at home (yes, I know, SOME working class people will care about those things a lot...but I am not talking about SOME).
This is why I would ideally not opt for a working class neighborhood if I could.

I was just curious about the school that your daughter goes to. Have you been happy with it?

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by syracusa

How do you feel about the education she receives there? Have you been pleased with the school she goes to? I am just curious because the school is actually THE MAIN reason why I would want to live in a neighborhood with people I can relate to - which is those who believe in serious education, reading and traveling-with-a-purpose for their kids (and less so in the parochial sports culture).

I did not get the impression that working class neighborhoods have the kind of schools where kids necessarily have those habits instilled at home (yes, I know, SOME working class people will care about those things a lot...but I am not talking about SOME).
This is why I would ideally not opt for a working class neighborhood if I could.

I don't think your judgement of the working class is an accurate one. My neighbor who works for the local utility, for example, has 2 kids. One graduated from Drexel University with an engineering degree. The other graduated last year from Loyola University (not sure what her degree is in) and I know she spent a semester in Australia as part of her program. I'm not sure about my other neighbors, but I think there is plenty of focus on education.

My daughter's schooling has been just fine so far. She's had great teachers and get's some challenging assignments. Some of the work has been too easy, but she happens to be a bright kid who is generally ahead of her class. Overall, I think everything has been just fine and she'll be well prepared for whatever college curriculum she eventually follows. And what happens at home is as important or even more important than what happens in the classroom. She reads constantly, and I'm talking about some serious reading, not just pre-teen fluff stuff.

[LuxLiving]

I suppose I am confused - why are all these kiddos being educated if they are not to use it in some form of work?

Maybe a bit of clarity on what working class means from Syracusa's POV would be helpful?

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

I don't think your judgement of the working class is an accurate one. My neighbor who works for the local utility, for example, has 2 kids. One graduated from Drexel University with an engineering degree. The other graduated last year from Loyola University (not sure what her degree is in) and I know she spent a semester in Australia as part of her program. I'm not sure about my other neighbors, but I think there is plenty of focus on education.

My daughter's schooling has been just fine so far. She's had great teachers and get's some challenging assignments. Some of the work has been too easy, but she happens to be a bright kid who is generally ahead of her class. Overall, I think everything has been just fine and she'll be well prepared for whatever college curriculum she eventually follows. And what happens at home is as important or even more important than what happens in the classroom. She reads constantly, and I'm talking about some serious reading, not just pre-teen fluff stuff.

Then, that's good. You're probably in a much better neighborhood than the type I fear. By "working class" I meant more blue collar type occupations as opposed to professional occupations. As long as you are happy with the school and what she gets out of it, that's what matters. I was just curious.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by syracusa

By "working class" I meant more blue collar type occupations as opposed to professional occupations.

I think my neighborhood is mixed. As I said earlier, we have utility workers, folks in sales, teachers, fire fighters, airline employees, etc. What we don't have as far as I know is higher earning professionals like doctors, attorneys, corporate executives, bank officers, that type of thing.

[Seeker]

Syracusa, the problem with definitions is that they do not hold true for all people within that supposed "definition." There are unique individuals in this board as well as in your neighborhood. You are one of the unique persons as well.

Blue collar workers (say middle class) versus white collar workers ("professionals") do not tend to conglomerate. People conglomerate; unique individuals. People may hold certain types of jobs within an area, but are you "defined" by your job? Does your area define you? Is that truely what matters to you?

You seperate and classify things based on an external (which you describe as "superficialness" or the "glazed-eye" look) which is based on a feeling that you have when people talk with you.

Please realize that I'm not trying to speak against you or your opinions about your reality... what I am trying to say here, is that those people talking with you probably are also making some external judgements about you. Maybe you're meeting people that you cannot find any common ground with... maybe not.

But I can tell you that true conversations get beyond the externals. It's beyond Americanism or any culture. My friends cross nationalities and job classifications; my "friends" are various people, both rich and poor.

America is not a culture that originated with Americans -- unless you are a Native American Indian, none of our ancestors came from this country originally. Most of America's art, literature, etc. originated from other lands. Americans love the freedoms that this country allows, and you critise that with your words. Yes there are negative aspects to living in this country... would you rather live elsewhere?

If you think every single person is the "enemy" (out to get you or to critise you) then you know, that is what you will find. By grouping people and limiting people, you may limit yourself.

[Seeker]

Oops forgot to write to the OP.

Money and the amount of money earned is not really a topic of conversation because usually the workplace "discourages" these comparisons. And as others have pointed out, it really does not mean much anyway.

Every so often the newpaper comes out with a yeary magazine that describes incomes and jobs across the US. If I happen to make thousands of dollars more than my counterpart in another state, what does it really mean? California's COL (cost of Living) is a whole lot larger than many other states... how could I even begin to make a comparison on who has that "better" salary? It's just another apples to oranges comparison.

Even in the same workplace, if my peer earns more than me.... what business is it of mine? Unfortunately these things do create tensions and problems down the line, and that's what people try to avoid. So talking about money is usually discouraged.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Seeker

Every so often the newpaper comes out with a yeary magazine that describes incomes and jobs across the US. If I happen to make thousands of dollars more than my counterpart in another state, what does it really mean?

We get that magazine, too. It means very little. There are so many variables that comparing is impossible.

I also get a magazine called Medical Economics that publishes a survey of physician income each year. The range for my speciality, family practice, is fairly broad. I'm usually somewhere near the middle. Does that mean much? Not really. I could change jobs anytime I wanted to and increase my income probably up to 50%. But the new job wouldn't be comparable in hours, duties, responsibility, scheduling flexibility, maybe proximity to my house, etc. The doctor down the road might make 30K more than me, but he might also handle patients at a couple of hospitals, oversee a nursing home, have Saturday hours, etc. Maybe he does some in-office cosmetic procedures. So just knowing he is also a family doctor and looking at salary figures doesn't tell me much of anything without knowing the rest of the story.

[simpleyme]

as far as who our neighbors are makes very little differance we spend all our time with each other ,and we work

[GoodBuyGirl]

I know many highly educated people who work blue collar jobs. Some people would rather have a hands on job rather then being caged in an office all day.
You have probably cheated yourself out of many great friendships due to your shallow outlook on life.
There is no law in America that says you have to be friends with your neighbor. My neighbors are a mixed lot. I do not socialize with them but if a disaster should happen I know that they would be there for me.

[pjmama]

This is a sad one to answer, because I have no income... at least not for the time being. I'm living off of student loan money :/ This summer, however, I'm hoping to have much more

[LuxLiving]

It seems funny that we still have a 'working class' designation when there are very few jobs any more that DON'T require a college degree.

The designation seems to date back to the days in the late 50's, 60's and yes, even the early 70's in the US when the majority of degrees went to either doctors, lawyers, nurses or school teachers. The rest of us were all 'working class' then - oh, except for bankers, which in my hometown you only got to be one if your daddy was one.

GoodBuyGirl, I know I seem to find life a lot more enjoyable when I treat everyone on an equal basis. It did seem to me a bit odd to only question specifically someone who's a doctor as the only one out of everyone here as being interested in getting a good education for our children.

Surely some of the rest of us have experience in the quality level of education received in working class neighborhoods?

And, as with the other recent question about utilities, unless you live in the same district, or even the same neighborhood, I think you'd almost be wasting your time in asking the question. Teachers and school-systems vary widely in the quality of education being given, even those just a couple of blocks away from each other.

In fact, in my state one of the smallest, most rural of towns (you know, the cow & horses folks) reportedly (I don't have a solid data source for this claim) gets the highest test scores. The most scholarship offers, college recruiters, headhunters and the like. There is only one school - K-12. My niece and nephew graduated from there. If I recall correctly my nephew was valedictorian of his class.

Syracusa, I'd suggest that you pinpoint a neighborhood and home you'd like and then concentrate on the pros and cons of the school system. OR, find a school system you like and then find a group of neighbors you do click with and only then selecting a home in that district.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

That's because only doctors are educated enough to want their children to be well read. These are the few americans left reading probably. If you do anything without a degree, it's likely you watch sports, drink beer, bbq, and aren't concerned about educating your children.

But incomes are very disparate across areas. Don't doctors who work in say iowa make a lot less than one living in CA? Or even lawyers, etc.