what is your monthly income?

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Scanner

Our yearly income stated on our taxes last year was $103,0000.

In NJ, that means a middle middle class life.

Really, it depends on where in NJ you are. If you are in the NYC metro area, 103K wouldn't get you very far at all. On the other hand, if you are in rural south Jersey, you can still live quite nicely on 103K.

That's why just looking at income numbers tells you very little about how someone is doing or where they stand relative to others.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by vkm20

Another reason for me aksing this question is I know some people who probably are earning same and are in similar situation like me but they live lavishly and in bigger nicer houses than me. It puzzels me how they manage it and still be happy.

My reasons for sometimes being curious about other people's income is very similar to yours. It has nothing to do with any financial voyeurism, envy or Lord knows what...it is simply because I have become a bit puzzled about some issues related to neighborhoods, schools, types of people in the US ands their money philosophy.

Little illustrative story:
Recently my husband and I visited some neighborhoods in an area that we are looking to move once our current place is sold. This would be a suburban area, considered ...nice, closer to my future workplace (a university). I believe it has even been named at some point one of the top 10 places in the US to raise a family. (Whatever). We had a very clear idea about how much house we can afford in that area on our 108,000 income and on a budget that would allow us to continue to save for kids' colleges, retirement, annual trip to Europe (my family is there) and other stuff.
After inspecting the neighborhoods and looking at the houses in our price range...I got a weird feeling that my neighbors would not necessarily be the type of people that I would relate to very well. I have never cared about how much money a person makes because this is not one of my criteria for associating or not associationg with a given person; but I do care A LOT about the inherent quality of the people around me. Those places, albeit with nice houses, larger and more comfortable than a typical European is used to anyway...seemed to house...well...MEDIOCRE to SUB-MEDIOCRE types.
I saw more pick-up trucks and less-than-intelligent faces in those neighborhoods than I wanted to admit, definitely not the kind of people I would die to go talk to or get to know. There was nothing inherently wrong with them (many would accuse me of being a difficult snob, sure...but I've moved on long time ago from this kind of discussions) ; the subdivisions looked nice...but the faces and the "neighborhood culture", I just did not "get" them, end of story.

So I asked my husband: where are then those individuals like us, meaning the more educated people, the kind who look like they have read a book in their lives, are interested in a stimulating conversation, enjoy traveling some, and whose lives are not reduced to watching football games on a big screen TV after work while stuffing their faces with fast food?

He said: "Well...those are in much more expensive neighborhoods".
I asked: "But why? Aren't they supposed to be like us?"

His explanation was that most Americans at our income/educational level stretch themselves to much larger mortgages and leave for saving much less than I aspire to. Likewise, people below our income and educational level stretch themselves to the mortgage that WE could handle comfortably based on our income. And it certaintly doesn't help that we are both in somewhat non-lucrative fields, on a "high education/comparatively lower income" ratio.

He said that many of those people that I would normally be able to relate to as being "more like us" go to 300,000-400,000 mortgages whereas I do not agree with more than a 220,000 mortgage. Granted, some of them may have also started with help from parents, some inheritance, etc - which none of us has been blessed with.

So the conclusion was that if I want to live comfortably in the US, I need to come to peace with NOT having neighbors I can relate to because most people stretch themselves with mortgages beyond the treshhold that I consider "responsible" for a given income level.

It was quite disappointing as I will surely not go get a 300,000-400,000mortgage just so that I can bump into some polished professional, PHD or just some refined/intelligent person in the hope to find that "common ground" in the neighborhood.

At the same time, I do not fancy my kids going to schools with children raised in football-games-on-big-screen TV-only/fastfood households just as much as I would not want them to go to schools with obscenly spoilt children of vulgarly rich people.

Unfortunately, the professorial/more intellectual areas in this city are downtown, far away from our workplaces and again...very expensive.

Conclusion: looking forward to a relocation over the ocean where people are more mixed and the chances of finding my peace higher.

[Gruntina]

I won't lie here.... It does make me feel better when I say that those who have bigger homes, more stuff, and fancier cars must be stressed out by making all those payments and possibly have little money saved. But in reality I don't think that is so true. I am not saying that there are no rich people not able to hold on to their money but there is that type of person in every level of finance including the poverty level.

I couldn't even begin to accumulate fancy cars, high end homes, flat screen TV, hot tub and etc. with my credit cards and higher home loans mortgage because I simply do not have enough credit or make a large enough salary to get high volume loans and credit.

It just better not to look at what others have and just look at what you have and count your blessing. This world has never nor ever will be a "Fair" world.

[tripods68]

You must be British born Syracusa just guessing of course...but i love your story. When I visited London years ago, my g/f at that time were into high end stuff and into nicest restaurants. Every conversations we have with her friends seems far higher intellectually maybe because of accents can't seems to figure it out...but i know what you mean. I too traveled in many countries being once in the military.

[sweeps]

Originally Posted by Gruntina

It just better not to look at what others have and just look at what you have and count your blessing. This world has never nor ever will be a "Fair" world.

Agreed!

Originally Posted by syracusa

At the same time, I do not fancy my kids going to schools with children raised in football-games-on-big-screen TV-only/fastfood households just as much as I would not want them to go to schools with obscenly spoilt children of vulgarly rich people.

You kinda proved my point about how a person's salary does not say anything about that person, yet once someone finds out what that salary is, all kinds of ridiculous generalizations and assumptions are made about that person.

Again -- salary doesn't reliably tell what lifestyle a family can afford. Friends of ours who live close by make a good amount less than we do but they can afford a lot more, thanks to rich parents and a generous trust fund. I won't accomplish anything trying to compare my lifestyle to theirs.

[MonkeyMama]

Agreed with Sweeps.

In the last decade we have made $20k - $100k, and everything in between. Last year I pulled almost $75k.

My income tells little of my story. We saved the most when we were first out of school and only making $30k each (because we were young and had little in expenses/obligations). We probably saved the most when we brushed up against six figures. But then we dropped to one income and lived on $40k for a few years. Wasn't very difficult because we had never lived up to our income (and had considerable savings as a result).

We moved 2 hours away for considerably cheaper housing. That is what makes us able to afford much more on little income. It's just all relative. I know a lot of our friends here think we came here with equity or riches. Honestly, we just REALLY appreciate the opportunity to not have 75% of our income go to rents/mortgages. When you are used to that environment you learn how to stretch a dollar far. We have a fair amount of luxury and save plenty as far as I am concerned. But I find we just manage our money better than most of the people we know. Income has little to do with it. I find our views on money very relative. They are so different from people who grew up with affordable housing.

I have to share a story in reply to syracusa. When we moved here we were able to buy a very nice house for less than we paid for our little condo back home. We moved into a very upscale community and wondered much about this choice. We really thought our neighbors would be quite snobby.

Au contraire. Out of all the people I have met in this city I will prefer my neighbors any day. Most of them are either in our boat (moved here from the Bay) or are wealthy off of their own hard work. I have friends who drive brand new cars and are all into brand names and would never buy anything used, but make $30k/year or something. My neighbors? Consider more down to earth and frugal. They are the only ones I can talk to about thrift store shopping without being ridiculed. I realize that is how most of them got where they are. Lesson learned.

I have also learned most of my "broke" friends make well over six figures. So I realized at that point that appearances are very deceiving.

[PrincessPerky]

I find the discussion of money to be an interesting topic..we live on one income and I have heard to my face 'my husband doesn't make enough for me to stay home' when I KNOW both of them make more than my husband at the time.

I have heard 'wish I could afford to stay home' while watching someone spend a fortune on hair, makeup, clothes, eating out, ect...

Sometimes I wish I had shared exactly what we made more...if only to point out how full of bull those folks were.

Right now he makes a very comfortable income for us...which is still less than the combined of most folk around here, median for the US is us. And folks with double (a dr married to a lawyer) still think we must be rich since I am home...you really can't win with folks steryotypes.

Oh as to the TV/fast food...it is all income brackets! One of the reasons I home school is so my kids have a longer period of thinking our way of eating and entertaining is the norm! I think it is more an American thing than an income thing. (not that I agree with it, I am perfectly happy with my hand me down quite large to me TV (it is bigger than my monitor anyway)

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by PrincessPerky

I have heard to my face 'my husband doesn't make enough for me to stay home' when I KNOW both of them make more than my husband at the time.

I have heard 'wish I could afford to stay home' while watching someone spend a fortune on hair, makeup, clothes, eating out, ect...

I once had a friend tell me that she HAS to work to cover daycare costs. Apparently, it just never occurred to her that if she stayed home she wouldn't need daycare.

[PrincessPerky]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

I once had a friend tell me that she HAS to work to cover daycare costs. Apparently, it just never occurred to her that if she stayed home she wouldn't need daycare.

ROLF!

Folks are so sure the 'American way' of two parents working kid in day car until kid is in school set up, they never stop to think what alternatives there are....sigh

[DebbieL]

This is a very interesting thread. Right now we net ~$6K/month (gross~$7K/month). My DH and I earn roughly the same amount. Once I'm done my degree my personal income will be higher than our current combined income. We live in a very high cost of living area where the housing costs are stupid right now (our bubble is behind yours - so we haven't really started going down much yet). Prices here more than doubled over a 4-5 year period.

What do we do given the stupidly high cost of buying a house here (~600k for a nothing special box)? The average household income here is in the 60K's just so you can see how out to lunch the real estate has become with fundamentals. We rent! We rent a 2 bed/2 bath condo on the water with fireplace for just under $900/month. That way we are able to save a lot of money. We see no reason to commit financial suicide and buy like so many have done with their no down payment, 40 year mortgages, etc. Those are the people who think they are too good to rent. You should hear the attitudes here - it's almost like renting is for low class and beneath them. At least I'll be sleeping soundly at night while they are worried about their next meal, and when the foreclosure will happen. When the fridge breaks - that's not my problem. I've had a new fridge and oven in the last year or so (thanks property management company and landlord, lol).

All in all, we do well on our 6K net/month. I will enjoy the extra income once I'm done my schooling, but we are managing just fine without it and still saving. I don't think we will change much as our incomes go up - just save more and maybe go on an extra vacation - go to Disneyland every year instead of every 2 years

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I disagree about "fitting" into the neighborhood. I guess if it's important that you associate with "academic, intellectual" types then by all means judge everyone you see as bland, mediocre types of people who lack an "education". Gee whiz I'd never talk to you and my DH and I are the educated types.

We'd run so fast, I'd hate to live in your neighborhood. And you just proved the stereotype of judging those by what they make! And it's a wonder why Americans prefer to not discuss what they earn?

If that's the judgement we're getting then we'd rather not say. DH and I have lived in a lot of not so nice neighborhoods. It really is about being kind, open-minded, and generous about where you live.

Obviously education doesn't buy class. Nor does being European. There's no winning the money game. I guess some people will always think they are better than poor, illiterates, and rich, crass, vulgar millionaires.

I have enjoyed everywhere we've lived. We've never been judged but rather everyone has been very nice. I prefer to live somewhere with a strong sense of community, like how DH and I were raised. Where you live on a street and know every neighbor, have pot lucks, halloween, babysitting, etc. Where you know your kids is at the neighbors and not worry. And I've found that it can happen at many different economic levels both richer and poorer.

When we lived in our condo people were awesome. We knew a ton of neighbors by name. We talked at home and in stores. We moved to a townhouse on a street and people came over to greet us. Fabulous. But maybe it helps that we enjoy watching football, baseball, sports, etc. We like to bbq, grill, hike, bike, garden. My DH doesn't read a book to save his life, but I read daily on my commute. Iwe love rock concerts! I guess for educated folk we're sort of middle/lower middle class.

[jIM_Ohio]

I drive a pickup truck and so does my neighbor two houses down (but my truck is bigger than his truck).

I have also read that the most common vehicle driven by millionaires is a pick up truck (not a BMW, Mercedes or Porsche, but a pickup truck).

Stop discriminating against a pickup truck driver.

This is an interesting thread. Making 100k in my town and making 100k just 15 miles north of here is quite different. In some towns if it takes two incomes to make 100k you are not worthy (meaning those 100k families are single income), where as in my community it appears both spouses work to meet that income need.

I prefer to choose my friends based on the beer they drink or the values we share, not based on how much they make, what they drive, or where they live.

[DebbieL]

I agree with LivingAlmostLarge and Jim Ohio. Syracusa just sounds plain snotty to me. I'll bet that most of the people she thinks she would like to associate with would spot her for a snot a mile away and probably want nothing to do with her. Stop judging everybody so harshly and you might make a few friends over here.

[FrugalFish]

Originally Posted by LivingAlmostLarge

I disagree about "fitting" into the neighborhood. I guess if it's important that you associate with "academic, intellectual" types then by all means judge everyone you see as bland, mediocre types of people who lack an "education". Gee whiz I'd never talk to you and my DH and I are the educated types.

Obviously education doesn't buy class. Nor does being European.

I enjoyed your post, LivingAlmostLarge. I've always said that there's a tendency for people to confuse an extensive education with enlightenment.

I'd suspect that the most interesting people in this world are people who don't realize that they are such.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by tripods68

You must be British born Syracusa just guessing of course...

No, but I lived there for a while. I must have picked up on some of their flaws...I am not denying it.

[m3racer]

Not enough.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by LivingAlmostLarge

I disagree about "fitting" into the neighborhood. I guess if it's important that you associate with "academic, intellectual" types then by all means judge everyone you see as bland, mediocre types of people who lack an "education". Gee whiz I'd never talk to you and my DH and I are the educated types.

"Only superficial people don't judge by appearances"
Oscar Wild said something along those lines.
I am sorry, Living Large, but you are consistently hostile all over the board and you seem to hunt my posts so that you can snap at them. As I said, I do not judge people based on their incomes.
However, I do reserve the liberty to draw certain conclusions based on my life experience - a person's demeanour, body language, tastes, certain way of carrying themselves, yes and even certain choices people make in terms of cars, decorations, ways to spend leisure, you name it...all these tell a well-rounded story to me when I have not yet had a chance to get to know the in-depth character of said person. Certainly, a drive through a neighnorhood can only allow you so much insight.

I found I was rarely, rarely wrong. I never claimed I am compatible or I would even WANT TO be compatible with ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE. Whoever claims such a thing is either a hypocrite or a painfully superficial folk. I know I would never be compatible with someone whose favorite passtime is watching sports and nothing else; or who would "not read a book to save his life". I recognize such people's right to live their lives as they please...but would I be compatible with them? No. If that makes me a snob - then we agreed on it.
I am sure you would prefer such "snotty" people to never post anything anywhere, but life is not fair, as many of you have stated before.

While I admit it is entirely possible to find "an educated" type in a pick-up truck, my experience has not found this to be the norm. Honestly, I have no intention of getting into a debate with you given your perennial hostility. Again, with all due respect - I certainly would not care to have you as a neighbor either. But that wouldn't make neither you nor I wrong or right. Best to you.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Because you (syracuse) are very rude about Americans. You claim to be "judgement" free and "don't care about how much money people make," yet you harshly and critical write about mediocre people.

Sure you don't have to get along with everyone, I DON'T GET ALONG WITH YOU! You are a snob, hypocrite, self-rigteous, and arrogant. "I found I was rarely wrong..." So no you don't judge people on incomes, just on "demenor, body language, taste, carrying themselves, cars, etc."

So please keep on JUDGING. By the way, my dad's a vascular transplant surgeon. He was on many medical school boards an drives a pickup truck. He also wears clothes with holes and slippers. Guess he's a dumb hick driving a pickup.

My DH's old academic boss is a nobel laureaute. He drives a Honda Civic hatchback. Rarely looks nice and has millions. And he drinks beer and watches sports. Die hard Boston Red Sox fan (born and bred from Boston). Gee, I hate to think that these are atypical academic types. Guess they aren't cultured, refined, and classy. Too bad they donate tons of time and money to helping those less fortunate.

So yes Americans may not want to share what they make. Why should they? Obviously we're judge not just by what we make but what we look like, dress, and act. So what's the point of income? You already made judgements about them, and would knowing they make $250k/year influence that?

Probably. But maybe these people with true values would rather you ignore and judge them as boring and poor and clueless than trying to suck up to them at a university.

By the way Warren Buffet still lives in the same neighborhood he FIRST bought in. Hmmm...Food for thought. Everyone there was poorer and cheaper and average, middle class. Wonder why he likes these mediocrities?

[Gruntina]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

I once had a friend tell me that she HAS to work to cover daycare costs. Apparently, it just never occurred to her that if she stayed home she wouldn't need daycare.

For those stuck on two income trap (often in HCOL area) is getting to be quite common.

I understand you would not need to pay for daycare if one did not work.. but again, what about that one's own financial support if not covered by their spouse simply because it was not enough to begin with on only one income?

[scfr]

Originally Posted by syracusa

Why not? It's anonymous. And even if it weren't...we are all virtual strangers here. What difference does it make?

Those of us who blog here realize that there is a slim chance an acquaintance may identify us.

Since we moved to Austin in October, I have heard of 2 kidnappings that appeared to be financially motivated (for ransom), and we are not talking about multimillionaires, but just regular folks who may have had a bit of money. One was a little boy who was snatched as his mother was getting him in to the car to take him to school ... Thank God for Amber Alerts (he was found safe later the same day). The news mentioned that such kidnappings are common in Mexico, and this particular type of crime may have moved across the border.

Especially for those of us who live in border states, that alone is enough not to make us not want to disclose specific fianancial information to a bunch of strangers.

Take care all.