Got screwed by my CPA!

[m3racer]

I just got an additional bill of $240 for his services. This was a separate charge just for his consultation as a CPA. I already paid $300 for him to prepare my taxes, which aren't that complicated. We've had several phone conversations over the year and he considered that billable. He never indicated that I would be paying extra just for phone questions. If I was told about this prior, than I wouldn't be so pissed off. I will never use him again!

[Ima saver]

That is too bad, that is why I stick to H and R block. They charge by the page.

[kork13]

I'll agree with that, a friend of mine is a CPA for H&R, she did my taxes for me last year. Actually, she fixed my taxes from the previous 2 years as well--I made a few mistakes which could have been messy had the IRS caught them. But yes--large, corporate companies like that are generally what I would recommend, just because they have a good reputation, and only hire people who will help them maintain/build that reputation.

However, if your taxes are very simple (one paycheck, a few 1099's, not itemizing, etc.), you really are probably better off just using a computer program, like TurboTax or something. They do a fine job on simple returns.

Also, many towns/companies/organizations are starting to offer free tax counselors/CPAs who can help you do your taxes. That's what I did this year, and it was VERY easy. It's all about asking questions and finding out if this is something available to you.

[MonkeyMama]

So you don't want to pay for all that time?

You know as a CPA I don't see what is wrong. Clients call us all the time. The ones who call ALL the time will get billed. If it's just a coupe of 5-minute calls, it's already worked in to the tax preparation charge. But as a whole, we bill hourly. IF you ask complex questions that we have to research, this is not a free service.

Likewise, if you are that upset, call and complain. He may remove the charges. IT never hurts to ask. IF you tell him you did not realize, he may remove the charges. & you will be more thoughtful of the time it takes when you do call. IF not, well, you can move on.

Likewise, if your return is so simple, why are you paying a CPA's higher rates? Just all things anyone should consider... I think a lot of people pay for CPAs that don't need to. Then they get upset at the rates. A lot of the time people are paying for a lot of expertise and experience that you do not need.

There's middle ground between H&R and CPA; something else to keep in mind...

But mostly I did want to say - if you are that upset - call and complain!

[southerndoc]

I'm willing to pay a CPA for his or her time to answer my questions or research things. It's no different than paying an attorney, physician, etc. They're all offering advice, and I view advice as you get what you pay for. Free advice may be good, but if it's coming from a knowledgeable person, he or she will likely charge for it.

If you want free advice, you can always consult Google.

[simpleyme]

I learned a long time ago anytime you call a professional they can and probably will bill you for their time, the worst are attorneys who bill you when ever they think about you case ;-)

[m3racer]

I have no problem paying for one's services. However, I would expect to be informed prior to those charges.

[pearlieq]

Originally Posted by m3racer

I have no problem paying for one's services. However, I would expect to be informed prior to those charges.

I agree. I think it should be spelled out clearly during the first meeting. I would be ticked at getting a surprise bill for a phone conversation too.

[m3racer]

so Monkey Mama, do you not divulge this information to your clients beforehand?

[loulou]

I have to agree with Money Mama on this one. If your taxes 'aren't that complicated,' as you put it, why all the calls to your CPA? $240 is no 5 minute phone call, at least in my office.

[Scanner]

So you don't want to pay for all that time?

You know as a CPA I don't see what is wrong. Clients call us all the time. The ones who call ALL the time will get billed. If it's just a coupe of 5-minute calls, it's already worked in to the tax preparation charge. But as a whole, we bill hourly. IF you ask complex questions that we have to research, this is not a free service.

Likewise, if you are that upset, call and complain. He may remove the charges. IT never hurts to ask. IF you tell him you did not realize, he may remove the charges. & you will be more thoughtful of the time it takes when you do call. IF not, well, you can move on.

Likewise, if your return is so simple, why are you paying a CPA's higher rates? Just all things anyone should consider... I think a lot of people pay for CPAs that don't need to. Then they get upset at the rates. A lot of the time people are paying for a lot of expertise and experience that you do not need.

There's middle ground between H&R and CPA; something else to keep in mind...

But mostly I did want to say - if you are that upset - call and complain!

I am wondering, just to throw a bit of controversey into the mix, if you called DisneySteve with a question about a lab test result or me with a question about an MRI result and we socked you with a bill for $240 after a couple of 5 minute phone calls, how would you feel?

I ask the question in earnest because I suppose I am jealous you can just bill people with little regulation or oversight in that regard.

I can tell you - our patients would have a total 100% meltdown. They'd come unglued.

Yet, it's funny - lawyers and accountants get away with padding their bills with little recourse or consumer pressure.

[sweeps]

I would be upset if I wasn't notified up front that I was "on the clock" -- regardless of the service.

On the other hand, maybe I missed something in this thread, but we're not just talking about a 5-minute call, right? OP said:

We've had several phone conversations over the year

[MonkeyMama]

Originally Posted by m3racer

so Monkey Mama, do you not divulge this information to your clients beforehand?

I don't think we say specifically every phone call is charged, no. Because it should be obvious. I am not sure why we would have to spell that out.

Honestly, we aren't very clear on what we charge, because it is BIG trouble to quote an amount. You never know on the client. If it is a simple return and they are very unorganized and they call you every week and hover for an hour in your office after their tax interview (yeah I have a few of these) than they will get charged twice as much, or more, than someone, who just comes in organized and doesn't call incessantly.

Likewise, we do have an engagement letter that spells everything out. IT says we bill with our "hourly" rates. I don't think it says specifically we charge for every phone call and consultation, but I have to tell you it is certainly implied. (I'd have to check what our letter says specifically).

Maybe our policy is more clear than your CPAs - I don't know. I have never had anyone had a complaint about being charged for consultations/calls. Since I don't do the billing I don't field most complaints, so I don't see many. BUT the ones I do get are the people with large bills. They always call and say, "there is no way I should have been billed this much, I had an easy return." blahblahblah. Usually I pull out the billing record that details all the time we spent and they usually admit it is pretty fair. People conveniently forget all the troubles we had throughout the year. These are always the complex ones and they think they called you once all year and it was really 50 - you know - just how it goes. Which was why I encouraged you to discuss it with your CPA. I think if you gave him a fair chance to see his side, you might feel better about it.

On the flip side, we try to charge all the calls and stuff with the tax return. Because I will agree people look more favorably at paying for the tax return, than getting separate bills.

Now, if he said he was going to charge x for the tax return, and that was it, then I say your CPA is asking for trouble...

[MonkeyMama]

Oh - I just had to add one more thing.

My business is not primarily individual tax returns (not in the least) so we don't spell a lot of this stuff out for people.

Likewise, I get the impression when you go to a tax preparation service, you just pay for tax preparation.

When you go to a CPA it is a lot more like going to an attorney. You are paying for more than just a tax return.

CPAs may not spell this out. It's just a difference that we see is obvious. & that people off the street obviously don't always see.

I just had to add that I can see the confusion there. But certainly not trying to screw people over. Honestly, you don't know how many of my clients/potential clients I tell to go elsewhere to save money. I don't know about other CPAs, but we don't have the time to deal with easy tax returns. & people at that level are usually too price sensitive for CPAs. So we really try to avoid that kind of work. On the other hand, some CPAs may revolve their practice around easy tax returns, and may charge a lot less. IT just depends I guess. All of these factors probably make it confusing for consumers.

[MonkeyMama]

Originally Posted by Scanner

I am wondering, just to throw a bit of controversey into the mix, if you called DisneySteve with a question about a lab test result or me with a question about an MRI result and we socked you with a bill for $240 after a couple of 5 minute phone calls, how would you feel?

I ask the question in earnest because I suppose I am jealous you can just bill people with little regulation or oversight in that regard.

I can tell you - our patients would have a total 100% meltdown. They'd come unglued.

Yet, it's funny - lawyers and accountants get away with padding their bills with little recourse or consumer pressure.

A CPA should only charge $240 if they did one or 2 hours of work. We are talking more than a couple of 5-minute phone calls. I said we wouldn't have charged for those.

Physicians bill very differently than CPAs. It's an entirely different thing with insurance companies, etc.

Likewise, I have to tell you we don't pad our bills in the least. Who said anything about padding bills?

We bill what is fair.

I really don't think CPAs are in the realm of lawyers in the least. So I take insult to that. LOL. But seriously, attorneys are a league of their own.

[m3racer]

I'd say several phone conversations totaled more than 5 minutes. I'm not sure how long but definitely not 1 hour. I'm the first to agree that a professional should be compensated appropriately for their skill. Maybe I was ignorant thinking that these conversations were free. He prepared my '06 tax returns and I was not billed a fee for phone conversations. I just wish he would have divulged his billing rate ahead of time. I think anyone would get confused about a bill that's twice as high as the first if they were in my situation. It seems that this is fairly standard so I guess I'm not that pissed anymore. It sure would have been nice to know this ahead of time.

[pearlieq]

Originally Posted by Scanner

I am wondering, just to throw a bit of controversey into the mix, if you called DisneySteve with a question about a lab test result or me with a question about an MRI result and we socked you with a bill for $240 after a couple of 5 minute phone calls, how would you feel?

I got billed for an "office visit" to the tune of $79 by one of my doctors because he TALKED TO ME during an ultrasound he was doing. He billed again (another $79) for the office visit the next day to discuss the tests, results, and my treatment plan.

I called and complained, and their billing manager literally asked "Did he talk to you during the test?".

I had another doctor charge me for a full office visit ($80) for me telling her my symptoms, and her giving me 2 phone numbers for other doctors. I was out of her office in less than 5 minutes. There was no attempt at diagnosis or treatment (unless you could "Yes, that sounds like a problem. Here's a couple of other doctors to call" as acutal medical care).

I have no problem paying a professional for their time, but they were very clear on the purpose of my visit ahead of time, and instead of just referring me to another doctor over the phone, they wasted my time and money making me come in and pay $80 to hear it in person. I found another doctor.

So, it's not just limited to the financial field. Pretty much any professional can run afoul of this.

Bottom line, if I'm being billed for someone's time, I want to know ahead of time and have the option to accept or decline. I don't see what's so hard about presenting a client with a statement of charges during the initial consultation that clearly states rates and billing policies for phone contact.

[simpleyme]

if you knew they were billing by the minute or by the word you could also do away with any pleasantries and get right down to business

[lmclanahan@verizon.net]

Wow. I must be a greenhorn, because I would never have expected a bill for talking on the phone! I would have expected to be informed upfront, too. I've never had a dr bill me for calling them, or anyone else, either.
Now, if it is an industry standard, then he didn't really *rip you off* but this would still hurt the budget.
I agree with the others about the $300. We have a CPA friend that charges $50 to do our returns, and even that went up from last year. (It is worth every penny, as we trust him and he is fast!) Have you looked around or considered doing them yourself with software?


Lea

[jIM_Ohio]

Originally Posted by m3racer

I just got an additional bill of $240 for his services. This was a separate charge just for his consultation as a CPA. I already paid $300 for him to prepare my taxes, which aren't that complicated. We've had several phone conversations over the year and he considered that billable. He never indicated that I would be paying extra just for phone questions. If I was told about this prior, than I wouldn't be so pissed off. I will never use him again!

You expect to get FREE advice?

I think you have high expectations.