Is "working in retirement" an oxymoron?

[lgslgs]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

Sure, you can be retired and still do the occasional odd job or hobby or craft that brings in some income. What I don't think qualifies as retired is all the folks these articles keep talking about who left one job to take/start another. There seem to be lots of people who call themselves retired even though they are still working 30 or 40 hours per week or more, just at a different job than they used to. That doesn't qualify as retired in my mind.

Well, I work on what I enjoy at least 30 hours a week, up to maybe 45, and work at it 7 days a week - for fun.

Usually the income is a very nice bonus to the family funds, but with the stock market tanking we value it a genuine income.

According to most of your comments, this really should count as "work" or a job. The only difference is that I only work on drawings that I really am interested in doing, and the decision as to whether or not to work at any given moment is wholey my own.


Sort of complicates the definition of retirement, doesn't it?


Lynda

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by lgslgs

Sort of complicates the definition of retirement, doesn't it?

Yep.

So when someone asks what you do, do you say, "I'm retired" or do you say, "I'm an artist"?

[Aleta]

I think that what is important is that people remain active in some way after retirement. There's only so much golf that you can play and so many vacations that you can go on.

Probably the best would be to have enough income coming in so that you can choose what you want to do. It's not like you have to work 40 hours. You can work the number of hours that you want to.

[disneysteve]

I think it makes sense for someone to say something like, "I'm a retired physician, but now I sell collectibles on ebay." That acknowledges that the person is no longer doing what they made a career of but is still working for pay at something they enjoy.

[jc3900]

I think about 20 hours a week would be the cross over line from being retired.

[Gruntina]

Originally Posted by Broken Arrow

Perhaps retirement implies freedom. Freedom to choose what you wish to do with the rest of your life, rather than what you have had to do to get by. Whether that means to continue working is up to the individual retirees to decide.

I think the above statement is sad and so many people have put themselves in that situation.

Financial Freedom is one thing but so many people put themselves in a trap of not doing something they really want to do because they need a higher paying job to pay their debts off, extra large home, luxury cars, and the like. This somewhat forces them to work their butt off just so they can afford that and strive have a good retirement. Are the golden years the only time for us to enjoy good living?

If you had a choice, would you stress yourself out for many years at a job you do not really enjoy, or find something you really love to do and make it work so you have enough to live below your means and do this for many years? if the latter, maybe less health problems because you’re not stressed out or filled with resentment?

Living below your means and staying out of debts can leave people with so many options and freedom to do what they want to do with their lives pre and post retirement.

[lgslgs]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

Yep.

So when someone asks what you do, do you say, "I'm retired" or do you say, "I'm an artist"?

That really depends on who's asking.

My husband and I consider ourselves retired, as do our close friends and extended family. When I discuss aspects of our life on internet forums I say I'm retired because that's how I think about my lifestyle.


For folks I don't know so well (most neighbors and former co-workers), we describe ourselves as "work from home", generally not disclosing what we actually do unless we know the folks reasonably well. If they are genuine acquaintances I will tel them that I do some illustration work. I don't generally disclose the photography because that could imply that our house has stuff that might be worth stealing. We generally do not disclose my husband's line of work to anyone but his customers since it involves musical instruments and that could also make us a local burglary favorite. We also do not describe ourselves as retired to them as that would suggest that we have more money than outward appearances would suggest, which would be like inviting the local meth heads over to do their Christmas shopping in our living room. (Not that our big screen 13 inch TV would be worth their time!)

On our tax forms, I list myself as an illustrator, hubby is a musical instrument consultant.



If the market were to drop another 20% I might have a period of time when I would focus on working at illustration with the specific goal of efficiently producing commercial imagery - cranking it out fast and getting it into the marketplace fast. In that situation I'd feel a lot less retired - but if I only worked like that for 3 - 6 months I doubt I'd change the way I describe myself to others. If I saw myself needing to work that way for a period of years, then I'd likely start considering myself a full time work at home illustrator. The difference would be in whether I needed to put other important parts of my life on hold for the sake of getting my image counts up for a while.


Lynda

[Scanner]

If what you are asking DisneySteve, is Generation X "copping out" by admitting we won't have the money to fully retire and cruise around the world until death, you probably have a point.

We are probably "warping" the definition.

I suppose I have had to change the definition of retirement and concede I will probalby have to work, at least from 65 to 75 doing something. I don't think I'll have that 4.2 million at age 65 - another "call" of my generation (no kick back retirement for us).

That being said, even though we have warped it, we get to change how we live our life. I plan to travel to the places I really want to see in my mid-to-late 40's (Hawaii, Iceland and Scotland), after that. . .I'm done. I don't have the travel bug like most people. I'll read about places and watch TV, that's good enough for me. So my "semi-retirement" will about work, charity, and grandkids mostly. If my wife wants to travel with a friend all around when she is 65. . .have at it.

I'll stay behind and do some work. We've cut our travel bill in half and I get to sit around the house by myself in my boxer shorts drinking beer and eating buffalo wings for a week why she goes on a Caribbean cruise.

[Aleta]

Traveling abroad before vacation is better. You'll probably be healthy enough to do it and enjoy it. Getting ill in another country could be difficult for retirees. I figure after retirement of seeing alot in the USA. Pretty much think that our country could use the money now Europe is too expensive.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Scanner

If what you are asking DisneySteve, is Generation X "copping out" by admitting we won't have the money to fully retire and cruise around the world until death, you probably have a point.

We are probably "warping" the definition.

I'm not talking about any particular generation. The financial mags have articles about current "retirees" and the jobs they are doing now. These are folks in their 50s and 60s. I do think "working in retirement" is going to become more and more common due to poor saving habits, excessive spending and debt. The percentage of senior citizens with mortgages has been rising steadily. That stat will continue to rise, too.

I think the whole concept of retirement is changing and perhaps the word we use to describe it needs to change, too.

[Scanner]

DisneySteve,

Some of it is due to poor financial habits but I don't know. . .I palpate something more.

Take my wife and I as a "for instance" - you may even be an example.

We have done everything "right" as far as things go. We both pursued professions. We both work. We don't take expensive vacations - maybe we "fast food it" too much. . .we aren't saints. We never amassed credit card debt.

Yet, neither were our parents and they are sitting good with pensions and so forth. They are "taken care of" by corporate America and the State of NJ (teacher's pension). Even though we are college educated and my parents weren't (hers were), I don't think we are going to do better than them necessarily, when you figure cost of living.

My parents bought a house for $18,000. We bought our first for $130,000. . .our "final house" (barring moving) for $242,000. . .I don't know, it just isn't the same for our generation.

I am not trying to shift blame or anything but it appears our call will be to work. I don't mind that - like I said, I am not sure what I'd do in retirement anyway.

I know you didn't intend to make it a generational thing but let's face it - the subject of retirement spans generations.

I guess Generation X, who has been called slackers, doesn't want to hear it when we reach 65 and we are all working part-time for the most part. That's a big fat "up yours" to the Baby Boomers for expecting every American to have 4.2 million dollars in their retirement accounts by age 65

[disneysteve]

Scanner - It isn't a Gen X thing at all. It is the Baby Boomers and pre-Baby Boomers (whatever that generation was called) who are setting this trend. Why? Probably a combination of reasons. The Boomers have enjoyed a much higher standard of living than previous generations and don't want to give that up in retirement. There has been the loss of pensions, as you noted. At the same time, there has been a decrease in personal savings rates and an increase in typical debt load. That is leaving many Boomers financially unable to stop working and maintain anything near their current lifestyle. Also, there are non-financial issues. People are living longer, healthier lives and want to stay active and involved in society. They have defined themselves by the work they do and feel lost without a job to go to each day.

Overall, most of us enjoy a far higher standard of living than our parents' generation. I think we are pretty frugal relative to our peers, but it is still far better than I had growing up. Our house is bigger. It is furnished nicer. Our kitchen is stocked with high quality cookware and knives (we both love to cook). Our modest 27" standard TV is bigger than the biggest we had then. We have nicer cars with all kinds of safety equipment, air conditioning, better stereo systems than we had in our homes 30 years ago, etc.

In contrast, my 77-year-old mother lives very simply, as she always has. She gets by very nicely on SS and investment income, and that isn't because she has a 7-figure nest egg - she does not. It is because her needs and wants are few. She sold her house in 2006 and moved into a senior apartment complex. That resulted in a net gain of over $700/month for her between lower living expenses and higher investment income. Apartment living is way cheaper than owning a home, even though the home was paid off 40 years ago. She actually has a positive cash flow, taking in more money each month than she spends. How many future retirees will be able to say the same?

[Gruntina]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

Overall, most of us enjoy a far higher standard of living than our parents' generation. I think we are pretty frugal relative to our peers, but it is still far better than I had growing up. Our house is bigger. It is furnished nicer. Our kitchen is stocked with high quality cookware and knives (we both love to cook). Our modest 27" standard TV is bigger than the biggest we had then. We have nicer cars with all kinds of safety equipment, air conditioning, better stereo systems than we had in our homes 30 years ago, etc.

Keep in mind that today's time (what ever generation that is labeled) that more young adults and teenagers has a lot more opportunity to earn a good amount of money at a younger age as well compared to the older generations. Among the very wealthy people, there is definitely a newer trend of more younger people that are millionaires due to the internet/engineering and media business. This changes our life outlook by giving us more choices what to do with our money rather worrying about how to come up with money. If this was not the case, I am sure it would have been more like old times.

[LuckyJB]

Find something you will love to do then you wont have a problem with work being work.

[LuckyJB]

And when we work...we hopefully learn to save and invest...making an upward wealth curve.....so we have $ for retirement.....X-Curve.