Financially devastated!

[scfr]

Congratulations!

My womanly intuition tells me that you will rise to the occasion just fine!

Having said that, some suggestions:

- Don't freak out about college. I understand and respect both sides of the "parents pay" vs. "kids pay" debate (personally I think a mix is ideal), but I do know for sure that it will NOT kill your kids if they have to pay for some/most/all of their own college expenses. If your dream was to pay 100% but you have to adjust that figure downward, that's okay ... There are worse things in the world.

- Review your life insurance and make sure it's sufficient for a non-working spouse and additional children.

- You mentioned benefits ... If there are some you will be losing when your wife quits work, I guess this would be a good time to think about how you can replace them?

- Regarding the home improvements, assuming they're just cosmetic, it would seem those could wait.

- Regarding the vacation, not sure what you had planned, but what about going ahead with the vacation but having a scaled-down version (staying closer to home, less days, staying at a less-expensive hotel, etc)?

Congrats again!

[FrugalFish]

Originally Posted by Scanner

Jinene,

Thanks. . .I am lucky in that I have a lot of options to always pick up extra income. I really should thank God for that. I know a hospital about 60 minutes away that offers a weekend incentive program - includes benefits - you work 24 hours over the weekend 3 weekends/month.

The problem is, this will leave my wife a "working widow" so to speak as I pick up night shifts and whatnot to make up the lost income.

Scanner, it's none of my business, but do you *need* her income? Or rather will you absolutely have to make up that income? Or can you cut your expenses to compensate and manage to live off your current salary?

Kids are only little once and the time is precious and flies. Time is all we have in this world, and compared to that, money (and the goodies it buys) are secondary. Once your kids get a little older, there will be plenty of time to work gaggles of hours and make extra money.

Given the option, I think most kids would opt for a close, loving family over a college fund and having some of the finer material good in life. That's JMO, and probably a little early to throw at you- you just found out this morning! When we intentionally got PG with our DD, I cried for a week because I was so overwhelmed with fears of all kinds.

It will all be fine, just don't let the precious times get away from you.

[Scanner]

I don't know - as Clinton would say, "Define 'need''" I feel we live in an average neighborhood and maintain an average lifestyle but I am sure to some the lifestyle we lead is extravagant and to others, paltry.

I'd say benefits are the huge wildcard on the table right now. I am self-employed and for a family of 5, I"d imagine the monthly premium would exceed $1200, if not $1600 to match the level of benefit she has. Her benefit plan is beautiful - we get dental.

I can almost match that by picking up weekends (and getting extra pay) as I said (it might be a slightly less benefit plan) but it means lonely weekends for her or where I am sleeping in bed from working an overnight.

That's fine by me. I remember one poster on another forum once said society would be much better if we left women to do what they do best (homemaking) and men providing (I think it was a Catholic forum so don't judge the conservative sentiment too harshly, lol). Sometimes I agree with that sentiment. I am happiest when I am working.

But I know with this kind of schedule, I will miss little league baseball games and stuff. I'd be willing to make the sacrafice. . .and stand willing. . .but I don't know. . .years ago that kind of sacrafice didn't bother me. As I get older, I guess I want to see those little league games more and more.

As far as college, I stand willing to do what I did before. . .I am worried that retirement might get sacraficed.

I guess what we perceive as a gain (another child), we are a mourning a loss right now - we were just getting ahead and able to enjoy some of those things we "delayed gratified."

I know we tend to advise each other: "Enjoy them while they're young" but the counterarguement to that is, "You have to make hay while the sun is shining." I am not going to be able to work 60 hour weeks when I am 60 years old.

Oh well - boo hoo for us, right? The important thing is we all have our health and that the baby will be healthy.

[jIM_Ohio]

youth is wasted on the young the same way retirement is wasted on the old.

No guarantee your wife needs to quit working. In our case my wife's salary is 40% of our income, and her salary is increasing faster than mine. She needs to keep her career going.

So weigh the salary of wife vs cost of benefits+cost of daycare. Then realize that you also have cheap babysitters in older siblings.

You could also increase the rate you charge your patients?

[ginene]

Originally Posted by Scanner

Jinene,

Thanks. . .I am lucky in that I have a lot of options to always pick up extra income. I really should thank God for that. I know a hospital about 60 minutes away that offers a weekend incentive program - includes benefits - you work 24 hours over the weekend 3 weekends/month.

The problem is, this will leave my wife a "working widow" so to speak as I pick up night shifts and whatnot to make up the lost income.

My line of work (healthcare), it's hard to find a job that "family oriented" - you know, like Ward Cleaver where I work 9 to 5, get bennies, and all of that.

I know she wants that but I don't think financially it's realistic.

Well we don't want to do that. She needs you. You should visit the WAHM.com Message Boards They have alot of work at home jobs there that are real and free. Most are customer service though. There are some transcripitonist jobs, sales and things like that. YOu might find something there that either you are your wife can do for some extra money.

[Scanner]

JimOhio,

You could also increase the rate you charge your patients?

Nadda.

Reimbursement is flat and all of my insurance contracts state I may not balance bill the patient above and beyond what I agree to. I haven't gotten a raise from an insurance company, probably in 7 or 8 years. The patient copays are now matching what I get from insurance. THe only thing I can do is:

1. Leave all insurance contracts (unrealistic given American's addiction to health insurance - it's the first question out of a new patient's mouth - "Do you take my insurance?")

2. See more patients (possible but then you have to watch overhead like a hawk as it tends to go up)

Truthfully, I wouldn't mind liquidating the business, taking the money, and just finding work elsewhere. I've done the self-employed thing - been there, done that, have the t-shirt as they say. Done it for 10 years. It just takes about 2 years to successfully liquidate a business.

I'd miss it for sure but I would do what's best for the family at large.

The problem is, as much as I bitch about the business sometimes, I do get a tremendous flexibility with the family, which I'd gladly leave if it meant better fiscal health and physical health for the wife. She gets stressed working her job and 2 kids - like I said, 3 is going to put her over the top and understandably so.

Oh well, we'll work it out. I just wish the grandparents would take the kids once in awhile so we could talk for 2 or 3 hours.

[jodi]

(totally unsolicited advice, feel free to ignore) We have two GREAT sleepers (ages 2 & 4) and I really credit the book "Solving your Child's Sleep Problems" by Dr. Richard Ferber. It helped us transition our older son from a crib to bed, and helped us teach our younger son to sleep through the night from 4 mo. on. Now they both sleep completely through the night, except in the rare instances when they are sick or wet. Your sleep (and your childrens sleep!!!) is too important. I wish you luck.

[34saving]

Congratulations! We "tailenders" have a way of providing a special kind of joy to our parents.

[FrugalFish]

At least you've got a bit of time to figure out how to work it all out- whether you find less costly childcare, or work more yourself. I'll admit that there are times when I'm happier that DH is at work making OT, and DD and I can go about our business as usual. DH can really mess up a routine.

Next weekend I am going to be reuniting with my father who I haven't had much contact with for the past 20 years. He wasn't a highly involved father- too busy- we all have terrible regrets now. He worked hard and retired well, but ultimately missed the most important things. Whatever you do, don't let yourself become him- it's probably easier than you think to go either way.

[cptacek]

Originally Posted by jIM_Ohio

My wife is pregnant with twins right now (baby #1 and baby #2 for us). We found out about 2 hours ago.

Jim, that is great!

[Aleta]

Congratulations jIM_Ohio. That is great news!

[Scanner]

FrugalFish,

Good luck with your reunion. If it isn't too painful to talk about. . .can I ask you something?

YOu are right. . .I could see this going either way.

I have always wondered though the childhood resentment thing for a father working too much. My father worked rotating shift work as a boiler operator. I'll admit - there were times he couldn't make a baseball game or see me in a musical or whatever.

But I don't ever really ever remember resenting him for it, as a child or an adult. He was out doing what a father is supposed to do - provide for the family.

In a day and age where it seems fathers skip out on mothers and children, I guess I find it hard to reconcile what a father is exactly supposed to do keep the wife and kids happy. I am a Generation X-er and I guess I know we as Dads are supposed to be more active. I have found that hasn't always worked out. Maybe I am yearning for the days of my father, I don't know.

Yeah, I"d love to get the kids on the bus go to work from 10:00 a.m and get them off at 2 p.m. everyday. I doubt that's happening.

Don't mistake my tone; I am not trying to sound snide, just continuing an open-ended subject.

I'd love to put off working until I am 75 years old, and spend time with the kids while they are young, but I don't think life works that way.

[PrincessPerky]

You must have a completely different wife than me...While my husband does have to work, he is totally in the kids lives, and in on the parenting.

And honestly I am glad he works...Not that I don't miss him, but that him working shows the kids a different kind of work than Mommy does...All the examples of Mom doing laundry and such doesn't help a kid understand the money concept....nor the do your best regardless of pay topic...I could go on and on about how I feel both jobs (for self and family, and for pay) are important to understand, and very different.

Not to mention in a world where we are 'different' I need another adult voice on my side!

10-2 prolly isn't manageable, and even 6:30 -3 might not be, but if you look outside the box, and label your real priorities, you might be surprised at what you can do with the kids....Of course if your wife isn't on board, or if you aren't interested...well then never mind

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Scanner

I am not looking for a solution or help but I guess it's therapeutic to talk to strangers who don't know you because we aren't telling anyone yet.

I just found out the wife is pregnant last night. Needless to say, this is an unplanned pregnancy.

We both feel so stupid, like teenagers and we are 39 years old, like how could this happen (duh). We were just getting ahead financially and now. . .I don't know what will happen now. I can't have her work with 3 kids (and she's thinking it's twins). . .we were barely swinging with the schedule of 2 kids.

Which is good. . .she wants to stay home but benefits are the huge issue here. I don't mind working more if she gets to stay home (in fact, it would be my pleasure).

I don't know. . . my mind is whirling this morning. How are we going to be able to afford 3 colleges?

Wow. . .I can't believe it. The younger one had just gone off to pre-K this year.

Well, you think Scanner has it all together. . .this is a chance to lecture me.

(yes, part of me is happy. . .my wife looks so beautiful when she's pregnant and she's a great mom. . .she was crying last night but was better this morning)

Scanner, certainly you and your wife must realize that she does not have to go through with an unplanned pregnancy unlike years ago when women had no choice but to bring unwanted children into the world.

[Scanner]

Scanner, certainly you and your wife must realize that she does not have to go through with an unplanned pregnancy unlike years ago when women had no choice but to bring unwanted children into the world.

Exile,

Yes, we realize it and now we are stepping into the realm of ethics. I am willling to have the conversation but I think it could ignite a lot of argueing at the forum so I'll erase what I had written.

I don't want a lot of fighting/hard feelings because of me.

Right now. . .everyone is just emotional. She's in a state of denial/non-acceptance still. I talked to her tonight about it and she confessed, "I still think it's a dream and I'll wake up and find out it wasn't real." Her brain hasn't accepted it.

It goes beyond finances. . .she doesn't want a child to have to take care of "old parents" like my best friend did - he had "old parents" when growing up (speaking as a kid who hung out with them/made it a second home - their "oldness" was probably 50% a state of mind - you know how some people just seem "old" - they just plopped in front of the TV and were kind of shut-ins). In this child's 20's, we'll be in our 60's, going into 70's. That's typically during the "settling down" phase of life. We won't be able to be as good grandparents as to our oldest child and we fear being a burden to them when they aren't able to handle it.

Also, she'll see young moms in their 20's sending her kid off to kindergarden and she'll be 45 y.o. She's very self-conscious about that, for some reason, although I tell her it's fine/normal. She was self-conscious about being 39 and our kid went off to pre-K this year (rode the bus).

It's not just about the money (although I worried about it initially I guess like a typical Dad).

Well, I'm rambling. . .I kind of wish I had a pastor/priest/minister to talk to at this point.

[FrugalFish]

Hi Scanner, you said you wanted to ask me a question, but I'm not entirely sure what it was, so I'll ramble a little at my own discretion...

I don't think that the role of a father has to be as primary care giver- if it is, that's great, but really it's just about involvement. Kids want to know that they matter and that you are there for them if they need you. The importance of the father's role has been sorely undervalued IMO- most everything a girl learns about how boys should treat girls is based on how dad behaves toward women. How a boy learns to behave like a man is mostly based on learned behaviors from the primary male in his life. Dads need to model important behaviors and kids need to see them. That's where time come in.

There were some studies not too long ago that showed that kids whose dads spent 10 hours a week with them, without mom around, did better socially and academically.

I don't think my dad saw himself as important in our lives, so tended to back off and let mom deal with everything (she's a strong willed, somewhat hateful person, which didn't help). Back then (in the 70s), none of our dads were super involved, but even a little bit of involvement goes a long way. I'd say the kid just needs to know he matters to you no matter how much or little time you spend with him. And he needs to know he matters more than acquiring material goods like a 52" flat screen TV or a BMW, KWIM?

I don't think you have to put off working long hours until you are 75 (unless you're already 70). The first few years of a kids life are the most important- they gain confidence and start developing their own identity. By the time they are "tweens" these days, they would rather be off with their friends or doing something independent of you anyway. If your wife decides to quit her job to be a SAHM, couldn't she go back when the youngest in in kindergarten?

I definitely relate to your anguish about being an older parent. I'm 35 with a toddler and would like another. I live in an area where single, teenage mothers are rampant. We often joke (sadly) that our daughter will be the only one in her class whose mom and dad live together... Though there are quite a few older parents in most places nowadays, older parents really are the exception not the rule. OTOH, I can see that I am a much calmer and better grounded parent than a lot of the younger parents. I hope my DD will be a better person for it. Still I often wish I'd had kids younger, struggled through our 20s and found our groove in our 30s. Wishing won't make that so though, so we go forward from here.

GL to you with all you have on your plate.

[PrincessPerky]

Originally Posted by Scanner

Well, I'm rambling. . .I kind of wish I had a pastor/priest/minister to talk to at this point.

You know even if you do not belong to a church you can talk with their pastor(priest reverend minister, whatever)

Just grab the phone call them up (though I might avoid Sunday, seems to be a busy day for most of them) If you ever went to a church nearby try them, if not call your childhood church, or do a net search for your most familiar denomination and call em up. If they are not that helpful, try another, there are thousands of pastors in every town, some are not helpful, some are amazingly wonderful.

Or next Sunday go visit one, get a feel for the pastor, see if the sermon sounds like someone who you would feel comfortable talking to, if not try another.

[DebbieL]

Scanner,

My dad is now 78 and my mom is 69 - and they are the BEST grandparents to all their grandchildren EVER (including great grandchildren). I'm now 37, was born when mom was 32 and dad was 41 (I was their 5th kid - 9 years after the next in age to me).

The grandkids help keep them young. I don't think hardly a day goes by they aren't looking after someone's kids (they don't mind doing so). They actually have my nephew living with them. He's 17 now, and they moved him in at 13. They have a fun house full of life! You and your wife will be just fine, and I'm sure you'll be excellent grandparents to your youngest kids as well as your oldest.

[Scanner]

DebbieL,

Thanks - we are adjusting to this. It's funny - we talk about money here as it's a money forum. I am not sure if this subject has been covered before but it should - unplanned pregnancies. I know it's crass to reduce children to expenses. . .but gee. . .they are. They are expense generators and income reducers at the same time. Good subject for the future.

Everyday it's gets better. This is biggest surprise of our life. I was pretty emotional the first 3 days.

This sounds dumb but our whole family is a "2 kids" type of family. I have a sister - my wife has a brother. My aunt had 2 kids. My wife's both aunts had 2 kids. All of my cousins have 2 kids (except one who has 3 kids).

It sounds weird but I kind of thought that's all we'd ever have. Today I was excited about it, hate to say it - but thinking about names and gender. I think the wife was too but wow. . .this really changes everything.

3 is the tipping point.

[DebbieL]

My mom said after the first 2 it really didn't make much difference. I've also heard that from others. I never ventured beyond 1 myself, so can't speak from experience. Good luck!