spouse with a different mindset?

[deca]

I wonder if anyone else deals with this? I love DH to the moon and back, and god knows he puts up with a lot of crazy from me. That said...he is just irrational about money.

He will NEVER pay a bill in full if he can pay less. Like if the power bill comes and there's one amount for current charges, and a higher amount to include the past due, he'll just pay the past due amount. Even when we totally have the money in the bank to pay the whole thing. The late payment fee of a couple bucks is insignificant to him. I take care of most of the bills for this exact reason (and many others). But it still carries over to other things. He has a Visa card through our credit union with an $800 balance, at 10% interest. He was in charge of paying that one. I mean I can't do everything, and he doesn't turn over his income to our joint account so I can't pay all his bills (long story). So anyway that card was mainly just for overdraft protection, but he would spend out of hsi checking account and go into overdraft without a second thought, until the Visa card was completely maxed out ($1000). I paid it off in full at one point because the interest was ridiculous. Then he overdrafted himself all the way to the max again, and then kept missing payments (which are a set minimum of $25!) until the credit union froze the account. This whole situation is ridiculous because there was never a month when we didn't have a measly $25 so that account could stay in good standing. I didn't pay it off myself again because I knew he would overdraft it up again with nickel and dime purchases from amazon, ebay, etc. The only thing that stops him making these frivolous purchases, is not having the money available. I should explain that he is like off the charts severely ADD. He's brilliant, but he's impulsive and painfully disorganized. Also has suffered such extreme financial issues over the years (mostly before I came along) that it is a HUGE anxiety issue for him and we can barely talk about it without him just internally freaking out and not hearing me.

So anyway...I want him to pay the Visa off in full with the next check he gets, because we are ahead on everything else right now (household bills, savings, etc) and it's ririduclous to stretch out the payments on it when we can easily afford to pay it off. He says he doesn't want to pay it in full because that won't help his credit recover as much as paying it installments, which honestly makes no sense to me. Then he said he's going to go down to the credit union and bargain with them that if he pays it in full, they will remove the negative information from his credit report. Does this make any kind of sense whatsoever? I am just gobsmacked that he acts like he is doing the CU a favor to pay early. He owes the freaking money! I am sure the CU is thrilled for him to stretch the payments out as long as possible, as long as he ACTUALLY PAYS. I mean, more interest for them. I totally can not fathom how it is that he believes he has the upper hand here and can negotiate some kind of deal.

I have brought up going to counseling numerous times and he is extremely resistant. We really have no other issues between us other than the money stuff, so I feel like we'd want to see a counselor who's very very smart about finances, not necessarily a run-of-the-mill "you need to learn to communicate" kind of counselor. I don't know how you can find that out about a counselor or where you would go to request an appropriate referral.

[scfr]

Have you checked the web sites of any associations that specialize in ADD, or books regarding adult ADD, to see if they have any tips on dealing with money problems?

Has he learned skills for managing his ADD when it comes to areas of his life like organization or time management? If so, could those same skills be applied to money management?

Good luck to you!

[FrugalIII]

I have a similar situation, but not as extreme as yours. My wife has no interest in saving money or paying bills on time. When we first got married we each put money in a joint account to pay bills. That didn't last long. She would spend money out of the "bill" account and there wouldn't be enough left to pay the bills. She lives for today and doesn't care about things such as credit scores, paying on time or having extra money. I ended up using my account to pay bills so I knew they would get paid. I now take her contribution and put it in my account and we don't use the joint account at all. She has no desire to save for retirement, that's up to me too. She doesn't mind paying overdraft charges on her checking account (as much as $300 a month) and has never reconciled her bank statement. I on the other hand are very anal when it comes to money, credit scores, etc. I know, if it weren't for me, we'd be broke or bankrupt by now.

[tinapbeana]

my situation is similar, but also not quite as bad. when i met DH he had 2 check advances out at any given time and owed money to his sister for a title loan she'd taken out. granted, part of it was b/c he'd gotten a short stick in a divorce, but that's no excuse for hiding your head in the sand.

after we'd been together a couple of months he asked me to take over his finances b/c he recognized that i was better with money than he was. he set it up so the majority of his paycheck got direct deposited into my checking account and he kept what was left as his allowance. i took care of getting the bills paid out of my checking account.

it took almost another year to get him out from under the check advances and title loan, b/c neither one of us were making significant money at the time and the title loan had to be paid in full, there was no such thing as just paying a little extra on the pinciple. GAH!

now we've been together 4.5 years and the advances and title loan are a distant memory. we even bought a house last summer (his 2nd, my 1st) and i have a car payment for the first time in my life. other than house, my car, and DHs back surgery, our debt is from before we knew each other, when we were young and stupid.

we're lucky to be in the postion to both pay down debt and save, but it is still a struggle with him. he's said on more than one occasion that we make too much money to live like we're poor. i finally looked at him and said "You're right, we do make too much money to live like we're poor. Unfortunatley, we both decided to live like we were rich when we were young and stupid, so now we are still paying for fun we had 10 years ago".

i think that helped put things into perspective a littl

[Vapors]

I am never going to complain about my wife's spending habits again! =)

I don't know how you guys can put up with that. It's not only hurting your SOs but it hurts your credit too. That's selfish of them honestly. Tell them to do it for you =)

Good luck Deca.

[PrincessPerky]

I think the whole 'let em sink' thing is bad when the access to credit is dreadfully simple and easy to drown under. but If I were a failure at finances I would ban all plastic....you can't make paper money appear out of thin air...but you can make plastic pay for anything and everything.....even when there is no money to pull from, plastic works. I think for some plastic is too easy... you might be better off looking for a financial counselor than a couples counselor.

[deca]

Originally Posted by PrincessPerky

I think the whole 'let em sink' thing is bad when the access to credit is dreadfully simple and easy to drown under. but If I were a failure at finances I would ban all plastic....you can't make paper money appear out of thin air...but you can make plastic pay for anything and everything.....even when there is no money to pull from, plastic works.

The CU cancelled his credit limit, so at least for the time being it can't get any worse. That is pretty much the only reason I'm paying it off now. If he could charge it back up I wouldn't bother. Better for it to be maxed out.

I don't know how you guys can put up with that. It's not only hurting your SOs but it hurts your credit too. That's selfish of them honestly. Tell them to do it for you =)

He's a really great partner in EVERY other aspect...it's just this one area that's difficult. We've had some very difficult conversations. I also told him that this could honestly break up our marriage...I do not want to be 80 and eating cat food because we couldn't get this issue figured out. He's also the father of my child, however, a truly wonderful father, and you can't just walk out on that.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Wow tina what a great savings. I love it, I'll tell DH that every time he complains we're living too poor now. That we lived large sort of before. That'll make him die.

[JanH]

If the financial issue is related to his ADD, I'd also think of what scfr said. You could go to counseling for yourself--to learn how to live with and talk to someone who can't deal with the money well. It might help if you learn skills to deal with it. We have that here in our family, but it isn't with money. With some bipolar, OCD, and DD's social anxiety and stuff, we've all had to learn skills to approach and deal with different problems. Good luck!

[LuxLiving]

perhaps a relevant blog:

Adult ADD and Money

[deca]

Thanks, I found that blog after reading scfr's suggestion the other day. I liked the "deal a dollar" concept. I brought it up to DH. He said, "I just don't do well with cash...it burns a hole in my pocket." Well yes, that is exactly the point. Plastic doesn't run out the way cash does, so he keeps spending well past the point of being able to afford it.

I blame the ADD for not keeping track of the dollars and cents spent...but I blame something deeper for the denial of the issue that our money is a finite resource. We go around and around about that and it seems to boil down to: if we're "doing well," he should be able to buy a book here or some musical gadget there. The problem is, the books, musical gadgets, and lunches/snacks while out and about can total up to several hundred dollars per month. And "doing well" seems to be very loosely defined as "the card was accepted at the register." Whereas my version of "doing well" would include fully funded retirement accounts, no less than 10K in our emergency fund, and mutually agreed-upon and adhered-to limits on non-essential spending. It's some kind of ego/success thing--if he can't buy a book when it occurs to him to want to, he is not as successful financially/career-wise as he should be, and that's a really unpleasant thought, so he doesn't allow it to be true by not buying the book. He goes ahead and buys it.

[Ima saver]

Simply take over all money matters. Pay all the bills and give him an allowance of cash out of each paycheck.
That is what I do, not that my husband is bad with money. He just doesn't have the time to take care of paying bills.

[PrincessPerky]

Apparently not being able to buy stuff bothers some men a LOT...I can understand it, but for me, most of the time when I realize I can't buy the book I have two psychobabble tricks...

1. I might be able to, but I honestly do not know, so I would rather not...meaning I am not as broke as I appear. (and I give myself permission to go back once I find out...though I usually forget by then)

2. I know what I am buying with that available cash...for us trips to the science center, or education or whatnot...one of those beats out most books ....though being an anti stuff kinda person helps, I would rather not buy the book and then have to find a place for it!

Any chance you could find a way to phrase it for him...a mantra every time he wants to buy something....even just a mini delay.. something along the lines of 'you can't have your cake and eat it too' only sub the new thang, for the savings goal. IE "I cannot buy this book and take Jr to the museum Friday....."

wait that is too negative, how about, "I can buy this book, or I could take Jr out to the pool" hopefully at least some of the time Jr wins.

[bigsaver]

Sounds like without you, he'd be eating catfood.

[deca]

Originally Posted by Ima saver

Simply take over all money matters. Pay all the bills and give him an allowance of cash out of each paycheck.

I have done that, to the extent that it's possible. However, he is self-employed, payments come in randomly to his business account all month long, so it's a little harder than if he just got a regular paycheck.

Sounds like without you, he'd be eating catfood.

I think that is pretty true, and I have even played that card: "If I weren't keeping track of this stuff, we would be struggling to buy food and keep the lights on." And he agrees.

We're making progress, yesterday we went to the bank and set it up that I have online access to his business and personal checking accounts. The plan is that I will transfer a "paycheck" twice a month to his personal account. I'll also transfer a contribution to household bills to my own checking account. And I'll transfer any surplus in his business checking account to various other accounts we've established (his IRA, estimated taxes, family savings, etc.). We had this agreement before, only he was supposed to be making the appropriate transfers himself and staying within the budget and it just wasn't happening. So the new plan is for me to transfer his "paycheck" myself.

[Ima saver]

That is a very good idea. My husband is self employed too and I just write myself a paycheck every Monday morning.