Tithing while in debt

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Do you believe it's okay to tithe while in debt? Why or why not?

I've been having an argument with someone about this topic, I think it's okay to tithe while in debt as long as you are not behind on any payments. I think Tithing can be a line item in a budget. But it is NOT reasonable while you are behind on your payments to the CC, utilites, mortgage, etc. Any debt not current needs to be focused on and brought current before a budget can be set up. I also feel if you cannot pay for services rendered, then you need to stop tithing.

This person feels tithing is always appropriate. You never stop even when times are hard. Even if you are not current you are thanking God. He deserves your giving because without giving to him, you aren't showing appreciation. And if you can't live on 90%, 100% isn't going to help.

What is your opinion and why?

[tinapbeana]

IMO keeping current on one's bills is a form of keeping one's word. if you promise to pay a bill and don't that's a lie, and i don't think thithing will "make it all better" with the man upstairs... they tried that before with plenary indulgences and, well, it just didn't fly.

[sweeps]

Stealing from someone to give money to your church? No, I don't agree with that.

[fairy74]

Agree with Tina and Sweeps....

[poundwise]

I do not agree with doctrine of Christian tithing as taught by most anyway, however, I'd rather leave that aside and address the question, as posed.

"Do you believe it's okay to tithe while in debt? Why or why not?"

Of course. Why wouldn't it be? In fact, most people I know, even those without credit cards and who have paid for cars, are in debt - either with a mortgage or business debt. Don't get me wrong, I'm not meaning to convey a smart-aleck answer. I know the implication of your question by the rest of your post. The idea is that one is struggling with debt. I'd still say yes, in most cases.

Why? Because, what I see from most people is that they will use being in debt or having trouble with the bills as an excuse to stop "tithing" but they will still have cable tv, cell phones, internet service, lots of junk in the garage/attic/spare bedroom and they will still be picking up a sack of burgers from time-to-time, ordering pizza, buying new clothes, spending on entertainment, etc.

If one is truly struggling, then yes, things often must be cut. But its odd to me that people who claim to be religious and who contribute a "tithe" or offering to their church, will cut it first -- or before/instead of most of the things I've mentioned here -- under the guise of it being needful due to paying the bills, getting caught up, and/or getting out of debt.

I'm not sure what GOD thinks about giving that is done only when it is easy or convenient.

I'm sure this does not apply in many situations. However, I am just as sure that it does to most.

[poundwise]

Originally Posted by sweeps

Stealing from someone to give money to your church? No, I don't agree with that.

Me either. However, I'd reiterate, that it is seldom a one-or-other thing.

To borrow this line: "Stealing from someone to give money to your church, pay for you cable TV, keep you in your late model vehicle, avoid working extra, keep from selling items, buy some new shoes, and order a pizza?"

No, I don't agree with that.

So, cut the pizza and the cable, sell some stuff and take care of business.

Ah, but its so much easier to just say, "Sorry God, but I've got to make the payment on my Best Buy card! (Because I had to have the new TV last year.)"

... and so on ...

[Homebody]

I agree with you Lux. Tithing when you can't pay your bills I personally don't think is what the man upstairs had in mind. Render under Cesaer what is Cesaer's and all that.

I was raised in a home where my parents tithed faithfully and we went without enough. I survived, but I put my children's needs first before donating and I don't stick to 10% either.

I don't remember seeing a place in the bible where it says to give 10% of your gross income to your church. It talks about giving 10% of your lifestock and .... I can't remember the exact terms, but anyway....

I think it is useless to argue certain issues and I think this is one of them.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Problem poundwise is I agree about tithing while paying off debt. But a major issue is do you tell the person just sell the tv? That's great, but what if they won't? And better yet, they already bought it so they should be current in paying for it.

I agree a lot of people have fat in their budget. But they aren't current still with bills.

[sweeps]

I suppose I should clarify my position... I do not believe you should be tithing if you are delinquent on your debts.

If people in debt could not make a religious offering, then churches and other places of worship would fold pretty quickly.

[disneysteve]

I choose to stay out of tithing discussions, but I just wanted to say poundwise, you make some excellent points.

[sweeps]

Steve, didn't you just then participate in a tithing discussion?

I guess if we look at this another way... If someone truly believes that God requires you to pay 10% of your income and if you don't you'll be punished, then it makes sense to pay that before anything -- even before your taxes and your mortgage.

Also I have heard that God repays you your tithe 10 (or was it 100?) times. Financially speaking that is a great rate of return. It would be better to go the tithe route than pay off, say, credit cards even at a 30% interest rate.

[poundwise]

There are a lot of differing doctrines out there and differences of opinion regarding the issue exist even among sincere and dedicated people, that's why I purposefully did not enter into a discussion on the subject of "tithing" but rather the more general idea of what one should do regarding "religious giving" (whether it is considered tithing or not, or regardless of how one believes regarding tithing.)

My real issue is simply with the idea that somehow one can hold the religious conviction that he or she ought to give (whether as a matter of spiritual living or scriptural obedience or both) and yet that same person can be rather flippant with putting such giving on hold while tending to other matters. Other matters that are usually able to be resolved by other means. Choosing to give Time-Warner cable $80 (so you don't miss Law & Order re-runs) and one's church or synagogue $0 all in the name of "I have to because otherwise I can't pay the ____ bill" is ludicrous IMO. If that's what it comes down to, then pay the ____ bill and shut off the cable service. Otherwise, you are not making a decision to pay your bills instead of "tithing" but, in actuality, are making the decision to watch TV instead of doing so.

[kimiko]

Tithing is used to support both the church and works of mercy. If you seriously believe in tithing then consider the latter aspect and be merciful to yourself.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by sweeps

Steve, didn't you just then participate in a tithing discussion?

Touche'

[Snoopy2645]

I of course dont believe you should give money like tithing while in debt but if you have extra stuff you dont need maybe stuff you got free with coupons or old clothes that dont fit or something you dont need someone else can use you should give it to the poor or a mission or food drive or something of that nature

I really truly believe & have experienced what goes around comes around

[Fern]

All this talk that "God requires you to tithe 10%" or that "if you don't tithe, your'e not showing your appreciation" is really ridiculous. Perhaps other people, eg, church leaders have said this, but God never did.

If the God you worship is a loving and caring God, then I'm sure he would understand if times are tight and he would want you to have the ability to take care of yourself and your family.

I think that making monetary donations to any group should be entirely voluntary, not mandated, and that there shouldn't be all this pressure to make it an ongoing, weekly ritual.

[Ima saver]

I agree with you Fern. I like to help out individuals that I know truly need my help.

[Aleta]

Tithing is always a matter of conscience. I've often wondered if when tithing originated, it was because the people lived within a community and the support was for a lot of people including the ones in charge. (Priests) I also have read in the Bible that God loves a cheerful giver. So, if you're giving and begrudging it at the same time, I don't think that God honors it. If you feel forced, that's not good either. I heard one minister say that he liked to start some people with just $5. at a time, and up it to 1% of their salary and then incrementally raise it. It's hard to give at the same time, when you're in debt. But by the same token, you can stop the spending or maybe sell some of the stuff to get you out.

[PrincessPerky]

Well I don't know too many people who are not in debt.....at least a house and prolly a car if not a target card, and master card and student loans, and ect.

Should they tithe when delinquint....eh, sorry but if you can't pay your bills you have bigger fish to fry than just what particular portion is supposed to go to God.

IMO, sell off some junk, cut the pizza out, and cut up the card, pay your imediate debts, then come on back to the question and see if you want to give money away. If you would rather eat pizza, than be honest and admit it, and go eat the pizza. I have. and I have also given...(and that is the least of my recent sins!)

[JoyJoy]

It is my belief that God wants us to give what we can to spread his Word and to teach others of His love and kindness. There are many in this world who are like the widow who is spoken about in the Bible books of Mark and Luke who gave two mites (Roman coins):

Jesus said: "Truly I tell you this poor widow has put in more than all of them; for they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all the living that she had."

Our aim is to please Jesus who knows our situation and our heart, more than man.