Tithing while in debt

[Gruntina]

I find it really hard to believe one will continue to tithe in a consistent manner if they are not consistent with paying off their debts. Many do not like the idea of tithing when they can use that money for themselves. Many would complain that they don’t even make or earn enough money to tithe.

If your in a situation where you "wake up" and finally realized that you hit a turning point where you need to get a grip on your financial debts, I can see then you would need to figure out how to get things organized and get your head above water and that would mean not paying tithe until you are on a path to financial recovery.

If we were perfect characters of what ever faith you believe in, we would not have debts in the first place if we followed our doctrines. We are human after all.

My personal faith I follow: I see tithing as "bringing" not "giving" God back a portion of his money that He provided for us to begin with. For me this has been a great training system of setting aside money for church and I do the same for savings and retirement. This evolved to a better character of financial decisions for me and I find I somehow am always taken care of.

I am sure there are practical views of this as well as philosophic views. A better question is to ask in my opinion, do you want to trust God and follow his many many advice on financial matters biblically (or of other faith teachings), do you want to trust yourself with your own personal knowledge, do you want to trust other financial whiz knowledge?

[PrincessPerky]

Originally Posted by Gruntina

My personal faith I follow: I see tithing as "bringing" not "giving" God back a portion of his money that He provided for us to begin with. For me this has been a great training system of setting aside money for church and I do the same for savings and retirement. This evolved to a better character of financial decisions for me and I find I somehow am always taken care of.

I think that whole 'training' point is one of the reasons it is specific..tithe (one tenth) not 'some' people need trained (I sure do!)

[JoyJoy]

11 years ago I was a single mother and living paycheck to paycheck and had only $11.00 in the bank for about 5 years. That was my emergency fund! I could not give 10% of my income to the church but I gave an offering and I thanked God for being able to give what I did. My bills were paid on time most of the time, but sometimes I was late. I kept believing that God would make a way for me and He did. I remarried, relocated and financially things got better and better for me. My son is doing well and has a good job and a nice apartment too! I was told my situation would change for the better if I would give 10% of my income. I didn't have it!!!

Now I believe in allocating a certain amount of my income to helping others. My husband and I "religiously" care for three foster children. I donate to a ministry monthly where I get my spiritual nourishment and have for years. I just pray for direction and I don't worry about the %.

[tabbycat31]

MY religious beliefs (ok lack thereof) do not support tithing, but I will chime in from a financial standpoint.

First of all what is the debt from...... is it consumer debt (ie credit card) or other debt (student loans, mortgage, medical, etc)

If it's credit card debt, Visa might be supporting your gift to the church, not yourself. If the debt is medical, that's another ballgame.

Another thing to consider. Is there any other way to give besides your $$$....... ie can you tithe with your time instead? Or donate other items to your church? Do you have a service that could be of value to them (ie if you are handy).

[Bluezy]

Originally Posted by JoyJoy

I was told my situation would change for the better if I would give 10% of my income. I didn't have it!!!

Now I believe in allocating a certain amount of my income to helping others. My husband and I "religiously" care for three foster children. I donate to a ministry monthly where I get my spiritual nourishment and have for years. I just pray for direction and I don't worry about the %.

Hi JoyJoy! Titheing includes the desire to even when we cannot. Some poor people get caught up in the hope of "wealth through titheing", and lose sight of what it is. You deserve the rich blessings you have and will receive, my friend.

As far as titheing while reducing debt, it must be within the individual's means. I recall the Bible mentions to those who follow God to "owe no man nothing...", meaning we shouldn't be in debt anyway! So those who need to get out of debt should do so accordingly, and keep from getting into debt, if at all possible.

[DebbieL]

Let me put it this way. If someone owes me $1000, says they can't afford to repay me, but are giving money to their probably rich church, would I be pissed off? You better believe I would. It is no different if it's a business or not, a debt was a promise to repay.

[Gailete]

Obviously, this is a sensitive issue between both those who believe in tithing and those who don't and then also those who believe in tithing while being in debt and those who don't. Tithing has always been a part of my life whether I was paying on debt or not. This was my personal choice (and no, I was never behind in paying on my bills). But, as one of the people who worked behind the scenes counting the churches money and then seeing the lifestyles of those who gave and those who didn't, it was a real eye-opener.

Those who tithe should study their Bible and know why they are tithing and be content in their own mind that they are doing what is right. Part of that is also being sure that they are living a financially responsible lifestyle. The Bible never addresses the fact of whether you should tithe or not while having a Visa card with $1000 owed. It does say owe no man.

I have found that as I get and keep my financial life in order, that it is a joyous experience to give my share, and also to see how God provides. Each day I thank Him for the roof over my head and the food He has provided and His amazing ways of providing such.

Gail

[kelsonmk]

the whole idea of tithing doesn't make sense to me...what are we trying to do, buy our way into heaven?

[PrincessPerky]

Originally Posted by kelsonmk

the whole idea of tithing doesn't make sense to me...what are we trying to do, buy our way into heaven?

nope can't be done..each person who gives does so for their own reason.

Me personally I tend to have selfish reasons...I like the 'services' offered by my church..so I support them....If all stopped giving to churches, the ligths would go off, and the sunday school classrooms would lack crayons....

Not that I always agree with what the church does with my money, but I agree enough to continue to support them. (and I occassionally sneak in my opinion when I disagree...)

Heck I agree a lot more with how my church spends money than I do with how my government spends it! wish I could get out of supporting the govt

[Gailete]

No we are not trying to buy our way into heaven. Those of us who feel it is important to do are trying to follow the scripture in this matter. This is part of our religious faith and worship so if you do not follow in this faith, of course, it would not make sense to you. Which is why it is a sensitive issue and would only apply to those whose faith advocate the giving of tithes.

Unfortunately discussing belief systems and politics will almost always cause a disagreement of some type especially in a public forum such as this.

Gail

[b4freedom]

True story:

LDS parents get divorced. Husband was priesthood holder. Wife paid all the bills. During divorce, money comes up, debt and cc comes up. Husband says, “We couldn't pay our cc on time and other bills, yet she still gave 10% of our money to charity.” Court held it against her.

Ask yourself, if you were in bankruptcy court, where would the judge tell you to put that 10%? And what will happen if you don't?

[nitajaye]

Here is my two cents worth.

God created the heavens and the earth and everything on it. It is his. In the old testament God's people were to give a 10th of their first fruits. It was for the priests of the temple and for those in need. It was also a thank offering, saying thank you for your protection and blessings.

Today we are under the law of the new Testament, thanks to Christ's sacrifice on the cross. This does not mean we are not to tithe, but I also believe that we are no longer "required" to tithe a 10th of everything we have. But we are still to tithe a portion of our "first fruits" What ever that amount is is between you and God. I do not believe in dropping your tithe to pay for the cable bill. Personally I would rather drop the cable and spend the time persuing other things. (spend time in God's word, be with your family and friends, help someone in need etc.)

Even when times are extremely tough continue to tithe and watch God work his miracles and wonders. It is truly amazing how God can bless your faithfulness to Him.

[Gruntina]

The bible is big on promises. Basically do not make promises you can not keep. This includes calculating your payments before purchases to make sure you can pay off your bills for small and large things like house and stuff. You are obligated to fulfill your contract of payments.

I personally made a promise to pay tithe so I am keeping up with that as well as to make sure I promise to pay off my bills. But tithing should never be an excuse for not paying your debts. Debts are the result of your own doing and that is the matter that needs most of the immediate attention so you can fulfill your other obligations.

[luvnspnful]

ok............im probably in the minority here, but does anyone else consider tithing or charitable donations of any kind the last priority?i give to various charities thru my work ( its a bottomless pit actually). added to that are all the birthdays/births/retirements/wedding gifts i donate to. i consider myself maxed out on this issue. granted, im not religious by any stretch, even tho i go to church on Easter, and throw $50 in the pass basket. but that is only once a year. even if i wasnt saddled with $40k of debt right now, i stillwouldnt tithe. does that make me a bad person? i dont think so. my child and my EF need that expected 10% more than the church does. consider that the Vatican bank is one of the richest financial institutions ( if not THE richest bank) in the world.

ok thats all i have to say about that.......... but id be interested to hear some other thoughts on this issue. thanks

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by luvnspnful

im probably in the minority here, but does anyone else consider tithing or charitable donations of any kind the last priority?

I don't know that I'd put it last, but it is pretty low down on the list. If we ever found ourselves in financial difficulty, charitable donations would absolutely be the first thing to be cut because we can't help others if we can't even support ourselves.

Understand, however, that we are not Christian. We are Jewish and Jews don't practice tithing. Also, belonging to a synagogue is fundamentally different than belonging to a church. We have set monthly dues that we pay to be temple members. No basket gets passed around during our services. If, however, we hit rough times, the temple would negotiate a lower dues payment for us, or waive it entirely until we got back on track. So even the institution doesn't expect members to contribute when they can't afford to do so.

Just another point of view. As I said earlier, I usually stay out of tithing discussions because I think it is a very personal decision and there is no "right" answer so I think it is kind of pointless to debate it. I just wanted to weigh in with kind of an outsider view from another religious standpoint.

[PrincessPerky]

Originally Posted by luvnspnful

consider that the Vatican bank is one of the richest financial institutions ( if not THE richest bank) in the world.

ok thats all i have to say about that.......... but id be interested to hear some other thoughts on this issue. thanks

Now the vatican/catholic church issue is a whole nother kettle of fish! which I really don't think is a financial issue (least not for me, we are not catholic .)

[Aleta]

Steve, I didn't know that. I always thought that Jewish people tithed. Didn't Abraham give a tenth?

[tabbycat31]

I consider giving to be a priority after I have my other obligations taken care of first. I do give to various organizations (I don't give all to one, I see that as "putting all your eggs in one basket") when my budget allows me to give. EVentually I would like to up that to 10% of my income, but that is not forseeable in the near future.

However I do give back in other non monetary ways. I will volunteer and help out at fundraising events. One SPCA that I support has a thrift shop, so I give them my old clothes and other items that I am discarding but are still in good condition. I would love to foster cats for the SPCA but that's not possible right now because I have a very cat agressive feline. However that's something I'd like to do down the line.

There are plenty of ways to help out your favorite organization besides $$. I've done so in a time when I couldnt afford to donate

[fairy74]

Originally Posted by DebbieL

Let me put it this way. If someone owes me $1000, says they can't afford to repay me, but are giving money to their probably rich church, would I be pissed off? You better believe I would. It is no different if it's a business or not, a debt was a promise to repay.

somehow I missed this in my first reading of this thread, but my thoughts exactly...

[Gruntina]

In my faith, tithing is not a charitable thing. It is not about "me,” in a sense I am in a position of giving as it was my own idea. It is more of bringing back a portion of so many blessings that was given in the first place. It is also an act of personal worship if the motives in the heart/mind are right. But I do it because I love God and want to depend on the biblical teachings and the mind of Christ (bible) to be the center of my life. I have no regrets and nothing to lose as money is not my lord.

This is more of a "religion" or can say “lifestyle choices” viewpoint rather than straightforward budget talks as usually faith of any kind can influence how we chose to budget or spend our money. If one does not choose to follow a faith, then “giving money” is done out of want makes it seems more charitable.

If debts with concrete goals or plans to pay off or delinquent or emergency debts are an issue, then that is an area that needs to be worked on and repaying debts being a priority can also be motivated by a way to worship because God does not want us to owe anyone money and if that is needed to be done than so be it. If it means not being able to pay tithe while paying back debts, you are still doing the will of God according the faith that I follow (non-denominational Christian).

It varies what faith you follow or no faith at all so there is any right or wrong answers and there never will be one answer to this. This is just to give an idea why a few of us do this.