Your Thoughts on Our Situation

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

I'll admit I'm shocked at the idea of legally breaking up your family in order to try to get public assistance. But what the heck, I'll get into the spirit of extremes and inform you that you can get out of having to pay child support or reimburse the state for ADC payments if you.....Give up all parental rights, that is legally no longer be the legal father of your children. (I'm afraid I have known two scumbags who chose that option rather than provide any support for their kids.) But like divorce, the legal proceedings are going to cost you some money.

Then if you really do stay with the kids and their mother, despite your legal standing, their mother would still legally have to declare all support she got. That would be the income you are bringing in. So how would you be ahead? Well, I guess you are assuming that your wife would lie about what other support she has besides the state.

Would you like help finding a cheaper place to live or cheaper car?

[MonkeyMama]

Well my first impression is the $500 car payment is way too much as well. We make good money and until this last year I was driving a $1k car. For my first 14 driving years really. If you are so broke why pay so much for a car?

Bitterness aside, if you are making so little you can't seriously be putting all your hard eaned money into the programs that pay these people. It is doubtful you pay income tax at all. Social security yes - but that is another story. (My pet peeve when people whine about taxes they don't pay - though obviously the system is so convoluted that most people don't know what they are paying taxes to and for. As a CPA I know and people are always whining about all sorts of taxes they don't even pay - LOL).

Anyway, I digress. If you really want some suggestions on how to make ends meet, here is the place. Hang around here and you will learn a lot. I would advise thinking positive and looking for opportunity. If your wife wants to stay home can she open a home business or daycare/babysitting - excellent advice I saw above.

The anullment thing - not wise - won't get you far. When it comes to law appearances mean a lot most of the time more than anything - if you annull for assistance and then essentially stay married - ???? - not going to work overall. Just asking for trouble and if you get away with it creates a lot of problems legally- if something happens to one of you, you don't get all the benefits of marriage and property and children passing seamlessly between you.

Truly wish you luck!

[nanamom]

I agree, divorce or annulment will open up other problems and not all of them are financial. If your wife can become a SAHM and find a home based business you may find that workable. It will probably enable to qualify you for the assistance you want from the state. Your parents are giving you the interest free loan would they help with the kid watching part time to reduce your bill? Lots of other states have free health care for kids, I'd look into that as well. I also agree that we are all shooting in th edark here unless you share your details. WE aren't nosy it is just hard to tell where you might be able to cut back.

[kobe008]

Thank you for all the replies. Last thing my wife and I want to do is the divorce thing just to save some money. I highly doubt we would go to that extreme but it was an 'idea'. When I get a few minutes I will put together an income and expense sheet and see if any of you have some ideas to help us out.

[jodi]

I have filled out my share of public assistance forms in my job, and you have to list all "household income" regardless of the marital status of the occupants. Plus, at least here in NY, you are required to go after the absent parent for child support when applying for assistance. I don't think an annulment/divorce would work, and I'm glad you seem to be discarding it as a solution
I'll be looking forward to seeing the numbers and hearing all the input from the excellent people here. I hope we can help!

[PrincessPerky]

looking forward to the details.

when I started to put mine together I discovered things were hiding from me, eye opener to have it all written down. And refreshing to have it all under control with loot to spare...and I DO qualify for WIC if I wanted it.

I ditto the idea that a hard look at working vs staying home is in order, though don't go making the decision for your wife, it is more than money. It is time to cook, and I still have to do it. It is time to cut costs on laundry or hair or whatever, and I still have to do it. I find being here with the kids more than worth it regardless of money, but not all women do.

[Duchesse]

Originally Posted by PrincessPerky

looking forward to the details.

when I started to put mine together I discovered things were hiding from me, eye opener to have it all written down. And refreshing to have it all under control with loot to spare...and I DO qualify for WIC if I wanted it.

I ditto the idea that a hard look at working vs staying home is in order, though don't go making the decision for your wife, it is more than money. It is time to cook, and I still have to do it. It is time to cut costs on laundry or hair or whatever, and I still have to do it. I find being here with the kids more than worth it regardless of money, but not all women do.

I'd like to second Princess, I too mentioned mom staying home but utltimately this is her decision.

Choosing to do without some of the amenities you may have become used to is also an option both of you can look at.

For years I took the saving lead in my marriage. If your wife is willing to cook more at home, do her hair and nails/toes herself she could help save a bundle. Don't forget to have mom consider breastfeeding and cloth diapers. I can't stress getting the Tightwad Gazette more.

[tinapbeana]

Originally Posted by Duchesse

I'd like to second Princess, I too mentioned mom staying home but utltimately this is her decision.

Choosing to do without some of the amenities you may have become used to is also an option both of you can look at.

just a reminder to all that it's not just the mom who might be the one to stay at home, it might make more financial sense in some households for there to be a SAHD instead of a SAHM.

[Broken Arrow]

Originally Posted by tinapbeana

just a reminder to all that it's not just the mom who might be the one to stay at home, it might make more financial sense in some households for there to be a SAHD instead of a SAHM.

Ya, my best friend is a SAHD, whereas his wife is the breadwinner. Kind of funny to me because, back in high school, this guy is probably one of the most rugged guys I know. The quinessential man's man so to speak. And to watch him now, chasing after their hyperactive baby girls to change their diapers is just... well, hilarious to me. Anyway, the wife's job is way too lucrative for them to give up, and he's actually saving them a lot more money as a SAHD than for him to get a full time job.

[living_in_oz]

Honestly, it sounds like you can't afford the house or the car. We still live in home with only 1 bathroom(did I mention I have two teenagers??), because....well, we can't afford a larger house or afford to add on a bathroom to this one. You can only live where you can afford.
$500 for a car payment? That's too much. You can NOT afford that much money plain and simple. You have to realize your limits. The reason my family is not in debt is because we realize our limits and don't spend beyond them. Is it fun to drive an older van when everybody else has a new one?? No. But we realize we can't afford a new van at this time.

There was a time when everybody lived this way. Simply because people couldn't go out and finance everything like they can do today. American's have a false sense of wealth now. We see everybody driving new cars and think that we can do the same. In all honesty, MOST people can't afford dinners out, new cars, and vacations. If the median income for the US is approx. $40,000, then the average can not afford the lifestyles that they are leading. DH and I make around $40,000 and live within our means. We live in an older home, drive well used cars, eat out about once a month, and don't go on vacations or to the movies. We pay all of our bills, put money into savings, and don't charge on the credit cards. It takes every dime to we make to survive. Soooooo, how is everybody else affording new cars, new houses, dinners out, vacations??? They can't afford it. They are financing everything and putting themselves in a huge HUGE hole.

[vsjhoc]

Many of the posts below (or above, depending on how you read your threads) tell the OP (kobe008) that $500 is too high for a car payment. I don't see that as helpful advice.

If the OP was considering buying a car with a $500 monthly payment, we could advise against it. But the OP has already signed the car note and may be stuck with it. If his credit is bad, he won't be able to refinance it at a better rate.

If he could renegotiate it, the best he would be able to do is get a lower monthly payment, but that could result in a longer term and higher total payments.

If he's upside down on the loan (owes more than the car is worth), then he can't sell the car to pay off the loan and buy a less expensive car, especially if there is a prepayment penalty.

So please let's stop beating him up about the car payment.

[LuckyRobin]

I think some of the most basic places to cut are:

1. Cable or dish TV, get rid of it if you have it or at least downgrade to the cheapest plan.

2. If you carry long distance on your telephone, get rid of it. There is no reason to have it in this day and age of 2.5 cents a minute phone cards.

3. Internet--if you have cable or high-speed, downgrade to regular dial-up. If you have regular dial-up, look into netzero or people PC for $9.99 a month or for free.

4. Cell phones are a luxury. If you have them and are not locked into a contract, end your cell service. A little know fact is that you can still dial 911 in emergencies from an inactive phone. At the very least, if you have more than one phone, go down to just one. Or switch to Trac Phone or the like for much less money.

5. Stop using your dryer. It is a huge energy hog. Hang clothes to dry on drying racks or on hangers on your shower curtain rod above the bathtub. In nice weather use a clothesline. I have dropped my power bill $15 a month by not using a dryer. That's $180 a year. Before hanging clothes to dry, send them through a second spin cycle in the washer to squeeze out excess water and allow for shorter drying time.

6. Unplug anything electrical that isn't being used. Many appliances have a silent load. Make sure your computer monitor is turned off if you must leave your computer on all day. The monitor accounts for 90% of the power used by a computer.

7. Does your furnace have a programable thermostat? Programming your heater to go way down when you are not home saves money on heat. Or even remembering to turn it down when you leave the house empty should help.

8. Replace all your light bulbs with fluorescent bulbs. This saves us about 10% on our electric bill.

9. In cooking, cook double or triple batches of meals so you are only using the stove once to cook and only a little on the microwave to warm stuff up later. Freeze the excess so it does not go bad in the fridge.

10. Manage your leftovers. More money is wasted on food going bad than you can imagine. If it won't be eaten within a day or two, put a label on the container and freeze for future use. Do weekly menu planning for meals. This will aid in grocery shopping. If its a week where chicken is on sale, plan your meals around fried chicken, chicken enchiladas, TexMex chicken and rice, barbecue chicken, etc. If it is a good beef week, plan accordingly.

Hope that helps a little since I don't have any real information to go on yet regarding your budget.

[QueenOphelia]

That car payment is the killer. $500 is just way too much for someone who is thinking of asking for government assistance. You don't mention how much you earn per year but it seems the obvious answer is you need more income. Unless your job requires you to be on call 24/7 you need to step up to the plate and work more hours.

Sell your stuff on ebay, get a second/third job, sell the car and buy a cheaper used one....etc. You must stop eating out...PERIOD.

Why are you having another kid if you are struggling to survive financially? I just don't understand that. It is not fair to your wife, exisiting child and the newbie. Why make an existing condition worse?

[cicy33]

[quote=QueenOphelia
Why are you having another kid if you are struggling to survive financially? I just don't understand that. It is not fair to your wife, exisiting child and the newbie. Why make an existing condition worse?[/QUOTE]


You know that had to be the saddest thing I have ever read replied to a post. Not all pregnancies are planned, he never said one way or the other. two of my husband's children were conceived on birth control. but no matter what that is just not a nice thing to say. Children are not commodities they are human beings. As far as the car thing, it is so easy for someone to say SELL IT! but first there has to be a buyer, that is not always easy and secondly we don't know how long he has had it, perhaps he got it while things were going well and then as it happens **it hit the fan. and perhaps it is the only vehicle. I agree IF they can sell it, great. I do agree he needs to check out the limits again on financial help. But I thought coming here when you were in trouble was to get advice, not chewed out and treated badly. We have all made mistakes. and people are focusing way to much on cable. Now, unless I can't pay my bills at all I am not doing without cable or the net. No way. I have to have some entertainment. Not to mention unless I want to spend several hundred dollars and buy a massive antenna that might or might not work I can't get reception where I live. we have tried! Maybe there are some other ways we could help them to trim the costs. To the poster. Try writing down all your expenses and see what you actually spend money on. Or for one month, use your debit card(if you have one) for everything and enter it into a quickbooks or similar format, then you can really track what you are spending. Then you might be able to figure out what can go. I will say the most obvious place that is easy to trim is eating out and cooking at home. I will agree with above that eating out is not a necessity. but if you must, only buy one soda and split it, the other gets water. not a huge savings but some restaurants up to $2.75 per coke, split a meal, even if they charge you a $1 or two it is cheaper than another entree. If you don't finish it , take it home. Taking home a small amount of steak cut up into small pieces and put with mixed vegetables makes a great stir fry and the meat was already there! agree with other poster, leftovers are very money saving. More information can help advise where to cut costs. For myself I can say I know how to cut the costs but I come here for support and continued reminders.

[Ima saver]

Poor guy, I think we have scared him so much he is not posting at all. Plese come back and give us more details.

[QueenOphelia]

Oh please...spare me the planned parenthood spew. Why is it sad to state the obvious? Reality is what life is about.....more people need to realize that they cause ALOT of their own problems.

[cicy33]

what planned parenthood spew??? two of my dh's kids WERE conceived while on birth control. One with the pill and the second one they tried the shot. Very unplanned. but still very loved. My point was and is not all pregnancies are planned. and yes, we do cause our own problems but the point to this board was to offer help, advice and guidance not telling them how dumb they were. Everyone is here either because they have made mistakes (definitely me) or they are here to help someone to learn from their solutions. But just accusing and saying you are not smart is not helping. Everyone knows they make their own choices but not all choices are made the best, that is part of being human. we make mistakes and bad judgement calls. The wife is pregnant, the car is bought, the house is bought. These facts are already in existence. What he needs is advice how to crawl out of this hole. Not have more dirt thrown on it. He is obviously concerned enough to consider very drastic (though not realistic) measures to fix this. I just think that instead of spewing (to use your word) commands, we should be offering genuine ideas to help. Like, leftovers, coupons, saving what he can, cutting back where he can, within reason. He might be fine without the cable, who knows? Perhaps, he doesn't even have cable. Definitely need more info in order to be able to offer better ideas.

[PrincessPerky]

Ditto the help not hurt. In general this board is full of help, and carefully worded advice....except this thread..................

Good for you if you never got into a mess, but telling him 'it's all your fault' is rude. I got into a mess, and I came here to help get out....I didn't get yelled at for idiocy (and yeah part of my trouble was my own idiocy) I only got support, I wish this guy could say the same........

[LuckyRobin]

Cicy, the reason I focus on cable myself is because it is a luxury, pure and simple. And because I gave it up when I thought I couldn't because I needed to bring my budget back in line. I still have the $10 netflix program so I still have a bit of entertainment, but if I needed to, it would be the first thing to go and I'd switch to getting stuff just from the library. But entertainment, while fun, should go if you can't meet your bills and he can't meet this future bill. I practice what I preach on this issue. What's great is I am no longer addicted to TV and neither are my kids or husband. We don't plan our lives around what show is on that night and being sure to get home from whatever activity before it starts. We live instead of veg. But that's neither here nor there. And if we want to veg a little we watch the DVDs.

The crux of the situation was how this man was going to be able to afford the extra $95 a month to send a second child to day care. So assuming standard cable is $45 a month, cheap cell phone program is $35, and hanging clothes instead of using your dryer is $15 off the electric each month, that's $95 right there and will pay for the daycare. I also offered alternate options as well, like using cheaper internet, cancelling long distance or managing food waste issues in case one of those options was unappealing.

Sometimes people can't see the forest for the trees and what may work for me (giving up cable) but not for you (who doesn't want to, ever) is that he may very well need to. The focus goes to luxury first, always.

And Queen Ophelia--Try to keep in mind that it takes an extraordinary amount of courage to post on these boards for some people; to air their problems in a public forum for the first time. When people ask for help, you offer guidance with respect. That is what keeps these boards a nurturing atmosphere the majority of the time. Kicking them when they are down helps absolutely no one. Compassion goes a lot further in this world, and on these boards, than arrogance.

[tabbycat31]

LuckyRobin, you mentioned a cellphone being a luxury. In many situations such as my own, a cellphone is my only phone. I work 12 hour days, 7 days a week and there's absolutely no point in having a home phone. Plus I don't like to have to pay extra for my privacy (very uncommon last name........ I do NOT want someone looking me up in a phonebook).

To some people a cellphone is a luxury. To others, it's their only phone.