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[VJW]

PESSIMISTIC BILLIONAIRES


* Pimco’s Bill Gross has likened the current state of the national economy to Rome burning, only worse.

* Microsoft’s Bill Gates is very worried about the dollar due to the rapidly accumulating debt racked up by the current administration.

* Warren Buffet has voiced his concern about the U.S. economy for some time, from the perils of living in Squanderville, to the more recent oligarchical Sharecropper Society, which are just two of his rebuttals to the rosy scenario painted by both Wall Street and the Bushies.

* Sir John Templeton, Jim Rogers of the Quantum Fund, and George Soros have all expressed similar concerns.

What do all of these people have in common ? They are all billionaires.

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[Ima saver]

Well I am not worried, after all I don't have billions to lose!!

[sweeps]

Hey VJW, one of your premises is that billionaires didn't get to where they are due to skill and hard work. You say they got there because of lucky breaks and family ties.

Assuming that's true, then who cares what they think?

[Ima saver]

Don't worry, be happy!!

[VJW]

Originally Posted by Sweepsplayer

Hey VJW, one of your premises is that billionaires didn't get to where they are due to skill and hard work.

False.

You say they got there because of lucky breaks and family ties.

False.

Assuming that's true

A false assuption.

then who cares what they think?

Everyone should, as those billionaires wish to retain their billions, just as everyone else wishes to retain their assests, not to mention they've expressed a concern for American society in general.

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[sweeps]

Oh really?

Originally Posted by VJW

The bottom line is that the stats run quite heavily the other way, as some 86% of those that are currently considered being the “wealthiest” (as being on the Forbes 400 list), either directly inherited their wealth or achieved it with great assistance form their wealthy family.

I realize this does not sit well those that promulgate the ‘pull yourself up by your bootstraps’, ‘self-reliance’, and most of all ‘hard work’ ideology, but that is the reality. Of course there are those that have accomplished it on their own from scratch, but people need to realize that they are in a distinct minority. I’ve never contended it cannot be accomplished, I’ve merely pointed out that it is not the pie-in-the-sky panacea that is constantly portrayed by some.

Ok, I'm done humoring you. You make circular arguments and defend them with a liar-liar-pants-on-fire defense.

Have a good one. :

[locolorenzo24]

So what...Some got it through connections, some earned it?...WHO CARES? Whatever a billionare has to say doesn't cause me to lose any sleep at night. If the dollar collaspes, OK then let's go make our food, go become self-reliant. If we have to live without conveinences, then let's at least live.
I thought this forum was concerned with saving money, not a "doom-gloom" Money is power mentality....
Go post over at Money.com or something similar.

[cercis]

86% does not equal all. Now, Bill Gates was one listed as having benefitted heavily from his parents' money and contacts.

VJW specifically states that there are those that have accomplished it on their own from scratch. But even if none of these did, they do know how to maintain that money. Warren Buffet is worth watching, his advice is generally spot on.

[sweeps]

I agree loco. cercis, yup, you're right -- 86% does not equal all, but it's close and it proved my point.

As far as I'm concerned, it really doesn't matter to me what billionaires are doing with their money. So what if Bill Gates is shorting the dollar. How about if he tells us before he does something like that. Now by telling everyone after, he's just boosting his own bottom line. You don't think Warren Buffet profits from moving the market?? And how can these billionaires sending people into a panic help our economy?

Show me some investors that can't afford to lose $50,000, let alone $500 million. I'd be interested to see what they're saying and doing.

[PRICEPLUS]

I am and will remain optimistic! I am not sitting on a dung heap waiting for a monsoon to wash away everything. Today life is good! I may not be here tomorrow. I make plans but that is only to make God chuckle!

[PRICEPLUS]

Sweepsplayer,

I agree with your assessment of things!

[jmjj215]

An interesting exercise is to read old newspapers and hear the doom and gloom in those as well.

[Ima saver]

I agree with loco. I have been hearing these gloomy things since Eisenhower was elected.

[VJW]

Really ?

Then you heard things in the past from people that didn’t know what they were talking about, eh ?

Of course, in this instance, all the underlying points made by the listed billionaires are factual reality.

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[VJW]

Originally Posted by locolorenzo24

I thought this forum was concerned with saving money

Does financial reality come into play with “saving money” ?

not a "doom-gloom"

Where’s the “doom-gloom” you refer to ? I’ve merely presented the facts.

Go post over at Money.com or something similar.

Can’t handle the truth, eh ?

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[VJW]

Originally Posted by Sweepsplayer

Ok, I'm done humoring you.

I did not realize you were attempting to be humorous.

You make circular arguments

Sorry, but that is simply a lie.

and defend them with a liar-liar-pants-on-fire defense.

You’d have to explain that extraneous hyperbole.

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[VJW]

Originally Posted by Sweepsplayer

I agree loco. cercis, yup, you're right -- 86% does not equal all, but it's close and it proved my point.

So, now you’re insisting that 86% is “close” to 100% ???

WOW.

Distorting what other people post not only makes you look foolish, but reinforces your lack of credibility. It most certainly has not "proved" your "point" (whatever it was).

As cercis quite clearly explained, I’ve only posted that a significant majority of the wealthy got that way “because of lucky breaks and family ties” as you put it.

Interestingly, Bill Gates, the wealthiest man on the planet, recently stated that he considers himself “the luckiest person”:

ABC NEWS: People of the Year

In contrast, Warren Buffett, the second richest man on the planet, is as far as I know, a self-made billionaire, as is George Soros.

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[sweeps]

VJW, when you want to have a civilized, logical debate, please let me know.

I simply asked you to explain which is it -- are these billionaires simply lucky or do they really know more than the rest of us do? If they don't know more than the rest of us, then who really cares what they're saying. And regardless of the answer, do they have a hidden agenda in what they're saying?

Perhaps most importantly, is there something concrete that can be done about this, or is this simply more spreading of fear? This forum is for regular people who are looking to improve their financial situation. If you have some practical suggestions on what we could do about this, now that would be interesting.

[cercis]

Sweeps, one concrete thing we can do is to check our investments. Make sure we aren't holding money in investments that we could use instead to pay down debt and be prepared if something should happen to our economy.

We can also prepare ourselves for a downturn in the economy - learn to garden and preserve food. Learn to create your own clothes, etc.

Now, most likely, we're all beginning to do those things, but it's an added incentive to accelerate the learning curve. And it's an incentive to carefully examine those investments to decide if the risk is worth it.

Gates says he is lucky - he means that he had the opportunity at all. That his parents had the money and the connections to get him there. I know plenty of guys his age that were there on the cutting edge of computers (okay, not plenty, but I know more than a handful). They didn't have the money to take off from work to spend developing their own ideas. They didn't have connections who could help them market those developed ideas. No one is saying Gates isn't smart, we're just saying that he had a little extra help. He says that. That's why he claims he's lucky. He also spends a lot of time studying on managing his money.

Buffet - completely selfmade. Smart man. Scarily smart. If I had money to invest, you'd better believe, I'd watch what he did.

[sweeps]

Good suggestions, cercis, thanks. I totally agree that eliminating expensive debt is necessary for survival in the future. But I also think it can be unwise for people to hole themselves up and stop investing. Times of pessimism have historically been the best times to buy stocks and win big.