Remodeling? It's a waste of money

[Snodog]

Liz Pulliam Weston - Remodeling? It's a waste of money - MSN Money

Strong opinions on either side of this debate. People love their houses.

I think she's right but most of the comments were of the other opinion.

[Caoineag]

I love my house too and am in the middle of remodeling projects but I still agree with her. Remodeling is consumption, not investment. Now some of the projects can help you in the long run and the minor rehab jobs do actually add value, but big remodels are expensive and often times unnecessary.

[disneysteve]

Remodeling can be beneficial when you are upgrading for energy efficiency such as new windows, high efficiency heater, new appliances, etc. You can save far more in utility costs than the upgrade costs. That is a good investment. When we replaced our heater, for example, our gas bill dropped by 50%. It will take quite a few years to recoup what we spent, but it will pay off over time.

Remodeling just for a new look is not an investment at all but rather an expense. If you are planning to sell the house, you will probably get more for it with an updated appearance but still not as much as you spent.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

You know how paying for things that improve your health can be thought of almost as an investment? Well, in some cases, doing household improvements is an investment in safety and health.

[Snodog]

Yes I admit there are times when a renovation can save money in the long run (replacing furnace,windows ect...) but I did not find anything in the article that I disagreed with. Maybe the title was a little misleading but the content was good.

I was just a little surprised by the negative backlash she got by the comments. They raked her over the coals. Seemed like every other comment was from a contractor so I guess I shouldn't have been too surprised. I basically got tarred and feathered just for saying that I agreed with her. Man, those contractors can be nasty.

[Snodog]

Originally Posted by Joan.of.the.Arch

Well, in some cases, doing household improvements is an investment in safety and health.

Care to elaborate?

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Sure. My kitchen would be safer if I did some small remodelling. For work surfaces I currently have two narrow cabinets which are not built-ins. They are cheapos from the old Central Hardware chain. They have no counter tops secured to them. Instead they have large wooden cutting boards set loosely over them. Works like the old butcher block top cabinetry. But the surface is insecure!!! A knife see-sawing a super crusty loaf of bread or a big hot pan set carelessly could make the cutting board collapse and injury could follow. Remodelling to put in NORMAL kitchen cabinets would be safer. I always have to remember to warn guests---not a good thing. Yet I am so used to it that it rarely occurs to me that I SHOULD do something about it. But new and shiny-shiny sure would look good and be safe.

Err--a weird one---there is a low ceiling at one point over our stairwell up to the bedrooms. I would not even had bought this house had I been aware of this! (I'm short and did not notice.) My husband has to duck to go up or down the steps. I don't know why he did not nix this purchase 16 years ago. One should not be doing stairwell ballet. One could hit the head, or trip in the ducking action, fall, and hit the head anyway. I think it would take redoing the whole roof structure to fix this.

Um, one project we took on for health as much as looks was to remove the carpeting and refinish the wood floors. That was because of DH's asthma.

One of of bathrooms could really use an electric vent. The house was built in the days when most people did not shower daily. So it carries a lot more steam and humidity than was intended. We have to open the window. We constantly have to watch for mildew. Again there is concern for husband's asthma. Installing a vent would necessitate some new wiring, new tile, and other wall covering.

[Snodog]

Originally Posted by Joan.of.the.Arch

Sure. My kitchen would be safer if I did some small remodelling. For work surfaces I currently have two narrow cabinets which are not built-ins. They are cheapos from the old Central Hardware chain. They have no counter tops secured to them. Instead they have large wooden cutting boards set loosely over them. Works like the old butcher block top cabinetry. But the surface is insecure!!! A knife see-sawing a super crusty loaf of bread or a big hot pan set carelessly could make the cutting board collapse and injury could follow. Remodelling to put in NORMAL kitchen cabinets would be safer. I always have to remember to warn guests---not a good thing. Yet I am so used to it that it rarely occurs to me that I SHOULD do something about it. But new and shiny-shiny sure would look good and be safe.

Err--a weird one---there is a low ceiling at one point over our stairwell up to the bedrooms. I would not even had bought this house had I been aware of this! (I'm short and did not notice.) My husband has to duck to go up or down the steps. I don't know why he did not nix this purchase 16 years ago. One should not be doing stairwell ballet. One could hit the head, or trip in the ducking action, fall, and hit the head anyway. I think it would take redoing the whole roof structure to fix this.

Um, one project we took on for health as much as looks was to remove the carpeting and refinish the wood floors. That was because of DH's asthma.

One of of bathrooms could really use an electric vent. The house was built in the days when most people did not shower daily. So it carries a lot more steam and humidity than was intended. We have to open the window. We constantly have to watch for mildew. Again there is concern for husband's asthma. Installing a vent would necessitate some new wiring, new tile, and other wall covering.

Ahhh, now I understand. Thank you Joan.

[cptacek]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

If you are planning to sell the house, you will probably get more for it with an updated appearance but still not as much as you spent.

Disagree here. I remodeled my first house for about $7000 (plus loads of elbow grease). I sold it for $120,000 in 3 weeks time, while the house down the street with the same floor plan couldn't sell at $90,000. Of course, I don't know if the other house had some major problems.

I couldn't sell my second house for 3 months. I added some paint, curtains, $1 per square foot stick on tile and some minimal landscaping (maybe spent $500) and sold it a month later.

Of course, this isn't in the high end market. Boy, though, paint can sure fool the eye!

[disneysteve]

cptacek - I agree. Quick, cheap cosmetic stuff like paint, polishing hardwood floors, maybe replacing a worn carpet can really pay off. I was thinking more of more significant remodeling. Redoing the kitchen isn't necessary. More important for everything to be clean and fresh looking. That can boost the selling price.

[Goldy1]

From reading magazines like Money and watching hgtv religiously, it appears the pros say 80% is about the best return on remodeling. There are always exceptions.

However, my view is that even if you do not get the money back, I suppose it could be the difference bewtween selling at all or not.

I know somone who put a 30K sunroom on a 120K ish house and got pretty much a 0% return 3 years later. We did market research on comps. to verify this.

[Goldy1]

That said my hardwood floors are the best cosmetic upgrade to my home. I like my kitchen a lot. I would like granite, but I want to wait for that.

[PrincessPerky]

Joan, any secrets to keeping the mold at bay in the bathroom? I constantly am battling that in my bathroom (and it has a vent)

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Unfortunately, I have no novel approach, princessperky. Sodium hypochlorite --household bleach-- applied way more often than I want is my mainstay. Just using liquid bleach from the bottle most people buy for laundry is the least expensive way to do it. If you buy those spray-on or thickened products specifically for mold & mildew in bathrooms, you pay much more per quantity. However some of those products are pH adjusted so that there is less damage to your grout over time.

I was just reading at an online store that tannic acid in water can help remove mold and slow its spore from fruiting. It appears to be a very mild solution of tannic acid, which makes me wonder if a wash of black black tea will be effective as well. Tannic acid, though would slowly erode the grout. I think it would discolor grout, too, giving it that nasty nicotine stain color. With the commercial product they did recommend two applications with drying time in between, then a repeat of the 2-stage process every so often. Every so often might have meant every other week(?)--I've forgotten.

[scfr]

Originally Posted by PrincessPerky

Joan, any secrets to keeping the mold at bay in the bathroom? I constantly am battling that in my bathroom (and it has a vent)

DH installed timers on the vent fans in the bathroom. He is not very handy but it was was easy for him to do and not too expensive (about $15 I think). We leave the vent running for 30 min after showering. I insist on leaving it running for a good bit of time after the shower, but kept forgetting to turn it off, so the timer was a great solution.

The last person to shower wipes the water off the walls & floor.

If privacy is sufficient, I would think that opening a window while running the shower would help. So would shorter & less steamy showers.

[DayByDay]

You might want to try a dehumidifier. We just bought one last week. It does pull a lot of water out of the air. I'm amazed at how much water it collects that I have to dump out into the sink. It remains to be seen just how well it will prevent mold from growing on our bedroom and other walls this winter.

[rob62521]

I would say most of the stuff in this article is on target. We like HGTV, but have to remember it really is for entertainment.

We have done some remodeling in our home since we bought it about 12 years ago. Some has been cosmetic, while others have been for value. Value? We just put in new windows because the old ones were original with the 30 year old house and were single paned. I don't know if we would recoup everything we spent, but it sure has helped with the utility bills. We have new kitchen cabinets -- partially for cosmetic, but partially for value. The ones that were original had solid wood doors, but everything else was junk -- drawers were constantly coming unstapled, twisting, etc. We didn't change the layout, just the cabinets. We have been replacing a few of the kitchen appliances as needed and as a result they don't match, but we are buying Energy Star.

We did repurpose a room -- we had both a family room and a very small living room and out kitchen was eat in. Well, it was eat in if you didn't have more than 4 people. So, we had a wall torn out and made the living room into a dining room which then opened up the kitchen. Not sure if we would get our money back for it, but it sure makes my life easier.

We had some friends who bought a house about 14 years ago that was basically stuck in the 70s. A couple of years ago before the housing market dropped, they decided to sell it. They didn't do much to update anything, but wanted a big price. They did not even get an offer and couldn't understand why. Their realtor kept asking them to repaint and get rid of stuff, but they refused.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Removal of lead paint is necessary for babies, so that remodel was well worth it to us.

[PrincessPerky]

thanks for the tips on mold. I do the liberal application of bleach, might have to look into timer, cause I can't see husband or I shortening the showers...

though wonder if we started using the other shower more often, share the damp so to speak....