Once Considered Unthinkable, U.S. National Sales Tax Gets Fresh Look

[jeffrey]

With budget deficits soaring and President Obama pushing a trillion-dollar-plus expansion of health coverage, some Washington policymakers are taking a fresh look at a money-making idea long considered politically taboo: a national sales tax.

Common around the world, including in Europe, such a tax -- called a value-added tax, or VAT -- has not been seriously considered in the United States. But advocates say few other options can generate the kind of money the nation will need to avert fiscal calamity...

washingtonpost.com

[poundwise]

And so it begins.

"I can make a firm pledge, under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes." - Barack Obama

Between the lines: That's right. We won't increase any of your current taxes. We'll just introduce new kinds of taxes.

(To be fair, he didn't say, "Read my lips.")

[simpleyme]

obama increased the cigarette tax that affects my employer,which in turn affects me i do not make 250 , nor does my employer I might add

I watched the huckabee show the other day he had the singer Dion (SP?)on his show Dion said"my dad would have loved obama ,my dad did not like to work " made me laugh

hey if you do not laugh you might cry ;-)

[Inkstain82]

Few options that don't include repealing the massive tax breaks the rich have gotten in recent years.

[tripods68]

We are now a SOCIALIST COUNTRY.

[Inkstain82]

Originally Posted by tripods68

We are now a SOCIALIST COUNTRY.

National sales taxes are a strongly right-wing idea in most parts. Although not universal, most leftists feel they are regressive.

[Inkstain82]

Also, congratulations to everyone complaining about Obama in this thread for proving that they did not actually read the article.

Some are pushing for a national sales tax. The White House is reluctant at best:

"A White House official said a VAT is "unlikely to be in the mix" as a means to pay for health-care reform. "While we do not want to rule any credible idea in or out as we discuss the way forward with Congress, the VAT tax, in particular, is popular with academics but highly controversial with policymakers," said Kenneth Baer, a spokesman for White House Budget Director Peter Orszag."

[disneysteve]

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. Except for a handful of states, there is already a sales tax. Some individual cities have an additional tax on top of their state tax. To the customer, it doesn't matter where the money is going. What's the difference if I pay 7% to the state or the fed?

In some ways, a sales tax is better than other taxes because those who consume less, pay less, so it encourages people to shop less and spend less. It can also encourage people to buy more stuff secondhand to avoid paying the tax.

[simpleyme]

I am trying to keep from watching any more news it really depresses me ,honestly it makes me fearful I physically feel ill

part of my problem is our governor kulongoski ,we call him taxme teddy

[simpleyme]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. Except for a handful of states, there is already a sales tax. Some individual cities have an additional tax on top of their state tax. To the customer, it doesn't matter where the money is going. What's the difference if I pay 7% to the state or the fed?

In some ways, a sales tax is better than other taxes because those who consume less, pay less, so it encourages people to shop less and spend less. It can also encourage people to buy more stuff secondhand to avoid paying the tax.

I have always wanted a mandatory" voluntary" tax for people who say this!
at the end of the year they estimate what the normal person earning ypour income spends and apply the tax
that gives the money the country needs leaving me alone to feed my kids without state help win -win


one year our state over collected taxes and the powers that be did not want to retun the money as it would not do anyone any good it was "not going to buy you a car,just enough to replace a muffle" funny they used that example as 2 days earlier my Dh had told me the muffler was shot ohn his work truck and we had to replace it
I hate politicians trying to steal my muffler ;-) and they do not live the way every one else does and do not realize we need our own money for things ,like mufflers!

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by simpleyme

I have always wanted a mandatory" voluntary" tax for people who say this!
at the end of the year they estimate what the normal person earning ypour income spends and apply the tax
that gives the money the country needs leaving me alone to feed my kids without state help win -win

I'm just saying that I'd rather have a higher sales tax than, for example, a higher income tax. My income is what it is. But sales tax I can control to a certain extent by being frugal and not buying a bunch of stuff I don't really need or finding a way to buy things that doesn't involve the sales tax. A sales tax has a greater impact on people who spend more, thus encouraging people to save, something we should be encouraging in this country.

[tripods68]

Originally Posted by Inkstain82

National sales taxes are a strongly right-wing idea in most parts. Although not universal, most leftists feel they are regressive.

What's wrong taxing people on what they buy? Consumer tax covers everyone and cannot avoid it as supposed to underground economy who hides from paying taxes. This is not just a right wing idea but a fair tax idea for everyone period. Even better, I am more favoring FLAT TAX for everyone. No corporate loopholes or mortgage interest deduction, a straight tax for everyone.

The only reason OBAMA balked on the idea of VAT, its political suicide. This idea would be fought HARD by almost everyone in this country. We are not EUROPE.

[Inkstain82]

Originally Posted by RedThunderBird

just look at the ex Soviet Union , and the countries under their influence or control ===== the economy program they planned never work , because they controlled demand and the products to be offered ===== and the so called left wants to bring the new socialism of the 21 century ---- crazy !

Your post demonstrates a lack of understanding the different between a regulated free-market economy and socialism. It demonstrates a lack of understanding of the difference socialism and a command economy. It's also quite a bit shortsighted on history, but that one's always little more controversial and I'm willing to give some latitude.

[simpleyme]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

I'm just saying that I'd rather have a higher sales tax than, for example, a higher income tax. My income is what it is. But sales tax I can control to a certain extent by being frugal and not buying a bunch of stuff I don't really need or finding a way to buy things that doesn't involve the sales tax. A sales tax has a greater impact on people who spend more, thus encouraging people to save, something we should be encouraging in this country.

I see what your saying

I just do not trust that when they implement one tax that they will eliminate or reduce another ;-)

[Inkstain82]

Originally Posted by tripods68

What's wrong taxing people on what they buy? Consumer tax covers everyone and cannot avoid it as supposed to underground economy who hides from paying taxes. This is not just a right wing idea but a fair tax idea for everyone period.

"Fair' is inherently a judgmental term. The right tends to find that sort of idea fair.

The left believes that sales taxes take a higher percentage of income from poor people. If you have to spend spend 90% of what you make with a 20% sales tax, you will be taxed at 18%. If you make a little more and can spend only half, you are being taxed at 10%. And that's even before you start getting into the relatively higher burden (10% from a poor person hurts more than 10% from a rich person).

There is no universal definition of "fair." I'm not trying to make a political judgment on the idea of a national sales tax (I've certainly heard worse ideas), I'm simply stating a fact: It is an idea that has far more traction on the right than the left.

And no, it would not eliminate tax avoision (Simpson's reference). It would simply drive it from hiding income to black market goods.

[tripods68]

Originally Posted by Inkstain82

"Fair' is inherently a judgmental term. The right tends to find that sort of idea fair.

The left believes that sales taxes take a higher percentage of income from poor people. If you have to spend spend 90% of what you make with a 20% sales tax, you will be taxed at 18%. If you make a little more and can spend only half, you are being taxed at 10%. And that's even before you start getting into the relatively higher burden (10% from a poor person hurts more than 10% from a rich person).

There is no universal definition of "fair." I'm not trying to make a political judgment on the idea of a national sales tax (I've certainly heard worse ideas), I'm simply stating a fact: It is an idea that has far more traction on the right than the left.

And no, it would not eliminate tax avoision (Simpson's reference). It would simply drive it from hiding income to black market goods.

Our federal tax system is progressive system, with so much built in entitlement programs like social security, medicare, prescription drugs, now Health Care Reform to pay for and all Obama's stimulus package.

The more money you make the more you pay in taxes. The less money you make (less than $50K) you pay hardly any taxes. The middle class end up (>$50K but < than $250K) or about two-thirds of hard working taxpaying citizens pay for all these entitlements. While they are hidden underground economy like the illegal immigrants, whom by the way do not pay any taxes end up utilizing many, if not, all state resources like medical emergency services 24/7 which are then transferred in high premium costs each year to those who have insurance. California alone spend 5 Billion on illegal services. I'm not against illegals, but i believe in "fair tax".

[Inkstain82]

That's all fine, but completely separate from the issue at hand.

[tripods68]

Agreed.

Last thing i will say on this. More entitlements more taxes. It has to be paid somehow that's usually the middle class.

[red92s]

Originally Posted by tripods68

We are not EUROPE.

. . . yet.

Give Obama another couple years. We'll get there.

[Inkstain82]

Originally Posted by RedThunderBird

thank you === and the difference between " command economy , and socialism " is what ? your attacking me does not bother me a bit ====== from the way you have replied to others as well, I can see that you are projecting the very thing you complaint about ===== I respect your opinion even if baseless , and infantile ==== good luck

.

I didn't attack you. I very specifically worded it to attack the post, not the poster. Your post was almost absurdly wrong. I make no judgments on you as a person from it.

In a socialistic economy, the government is a prominent actor in the market, but there is still a market and there are many other actors.

In a command economy, there is no market or actors, only government directives.

I'm honestly not trying to be mean, but understanding the basic terms of macroeconomics is fundamental to there being able to be any sort of conversation. For example, while I disagree with the idea that a sales tax or VAT is fair, I made sure to acknowledge both sides. As I said before, it's a subjective opinion and there's room for respect on both sides of it. But there's not much to be done about someone who says they want a sales tax and begins talking about an income tax. The post makes it appear as if they simply don't know the meaning of the words they are using.