Once Considered Unthinkable, U.S. National Sales Tax Gets Fresh Look

[tripods68]

Originally Posted by Inkstain82

National sales taxes are a strongly right-wing idea in most parts. Although not universal, most leftists feel they are regressive.

What's wrong taxing people on what they buy? Consumer tax covers everyone and cannot avoid it as supposed to underground economy who hides from paying taxes. This is not just a right wing idea but a fair tax idea for everyone period. Even better, I am more favoring FLAT TAX for everyone. No corporate loopholes or mortgage interest deduction, a straight tax for everyone.

The only reason OBAMA balked on the idea of VAT, its political suicide. This idea would be fought HARD by almost everyone in this country. We are not EUROPE.

[Inkstain82]

Originally Posted by RedThunderBird

just look at the ex Soviet Union , and the countries under their influence or control ===== the economy program they planned never work , because they controlled demand and the products to be offered ===== and the so called left wants to bring the new socialism of the 21 century ---- crazy !

Your post demonstrates a lack of understanding the different between a regulated free-market economy and socialism. It demonstrates a lack of understanding of the difference socialism and a command economy. It's also quite a bit shortsighted on history, but that one's always little more controversial and I'm willing to give some latitude.

[simpleyme]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

I'm just saying that I'd rather have a higher sales tax than, for example, a higher income tax. My income is what it is. But sales tax I can control to a certain extent by being frugal and not buying a bunch of stuff I don't really need or finding a way to buy things that doesn't involve the sales tax. A sales tax has a greater impact on people who spend more, thus encouraging people to save, something we should be encouraging in this country.

I see what your saying

I just do not trust that when they implement one tax that they will eliminate or reduce another ;-)

[Inkstain82]

Originally Posted by tripods68

What's wrong taxing people on what they buy? Consumer tax covers everyone and cannot avoid it as supposed to underground economy who hides from paying taxes. This is not just a right wing idea but a fair tax idea for everyone period.

"Fair' is inherently a judgmental term. The right tends to find that sort of idea fair.

The left believes that sales taxes take a higher percentage of income from poor people. If you have to spend spend 90% of what you make with a 20% sales tax, you will be taxed at 18%. If you make a little more and can spend only half, you are being taxed at 10%. And that's even before you start getting into the relatively higher burden (10% from a poor person hurts more than 10% from a rich person).

There is no universal definition of "fair." I'm not trying to make a political judgment on the idea of a national sales tax (I've certainly heard worse ideas), I'm simply stating a fact: It is an idea that has far more traction on the right than the left.

And no, it would not eliminate tax avoision (Simpson's reference). It would simply drive it from hiding income to black market goods.

[tripods68]

Originally Posted by Inkstain82

"Fair' is inherently a judgmental term. The right tends to find that sort of idea fair.

The left believes that sales taxes take a higher percentage of income from poor people. If you have to spend spend 90% of what you make with a 20% sales tax, you will be taxed at 18%. If you make a little more and can spend only half, you are being taxed at 10%. And that's even before you start getting into the relatively higher burden (10% from a poor person hurts more than 10% from a rich person).

There is no universal definition of "fair." I'm not trying to make a political judgment on the idea of a national sales tax (I've certainly heard worse ideas), I'm simply stating a fact: It is an idea that has far more traction on the right than the left.

And no, it would not eliminate tax avoision (Simpson's reference). It would simply drive it from hiding income to black market goods.

Our federal tax system is progressive system, with so much built in entitlement programs like social security, medicare, prescription drugs, now Health Care Reform to pay for and all Obama's stimulus package.

The more money you make the more you pay in taxes. The less money you make (less than $50K) you pay hardly any taxes. The middle class end up (>$50K but < than $250K) or about two-thirds of hard working taxpaying citizens pay for all these entitlements. While they are hidden underground economy like the illegal immigrants, whom by the way do not pay any taxes end up utilizing many, if not, all state resources like medical emergency services 24/7 which are then transferred in high premium costs each year to those who have insurance. California alone spend 5 Billion on illegal services. I'm not against illegals, but i believe in "fair tax".

[Inkstain82]

That's all fine, but completely separate from the issue at hand.

[tripods68]

Agreed.

Last thing i will say on this. More entitlements more taxes. It has to be paid somehow that's usually the middle class.

[red92s]

Originally Posted by tripods68

We are not EUROPE.

. . . yet.

Give Obama another couple years. We'll get there.

[RedThunderBird]

Originally Posted by tripods68

Our federal tax system is progressive system, with so much built in entitlement programs like social security, medicare, prescription drugs, now Health Care Reform to pay for and all Obama's stimulus package.

The more money you make the more you pay in taxes. The less money you make (less than $50K) you pay hardly any taxes. The middle class end up (>$50K but < than $250K) or about two-thirds of hard working taxpaying citizens pay for all these entitlements. While they are hidden underground economy like the illegal immigrants, whom by the way do not pay any taxes end up utilizing many, if not, all state resources like medical emergency services 24/7 which are then transferred in high premium costs each year to those who have insurance. California alone spend 5 Billion on illegal services. I'm not against illegals, but i believe in "fair tax".

wow I did not know that it was that much [ $5 billion ] I agree with you totally about fair taxes , and may add legal migration

[RedThunderBird]

Originally Posted by Inkstain82

Your post demonstrates a lack of understanding the different between a regulated free-market economy and socialism. It demonstrates a lack of understanding of the difference socialism and a command economy. It's also quite a bit shortsighted on history, but that one's always little more controversial and I'm willing to give some latitude.

thank you === and the difference between " command economy , and socialism " is what ? your attacking me does not bother me a bit ====== from the way you have replied to others as well, I can see that you are projecting the very thing you complaint about ===== I respect your opinion even if baseless , and infantile ==== good luck

.

[RedThunderBird]

and welcome to the forum , I hope you stay -----

[RedThunderBird]

Originally Posted by tripods68

What's wrong taxing people on what they buy? Consumer tax covers everyone and cannot avoid it as supposed to underground economy who hides from paying taxes. This is not just a right wing idea but a fair tax idea for everyone period. Even better, I am more favoring FLAT TAX for everyone. No corporate loopholes or mortgage interest deduction, a straight tax for everyone.

The only reason OBAMA balked on the idea of VAT, its political suicide. This idea would be fought HARD by almost everyone in this country. We are not EUROPE.

thank GOD for that , and you have posted the best idea about taxing === in my humble opinion

[Inkstain82]

Originally Posted by RedThunderBird

thank you === and the difference between " command economy , and socialism " is what ? your attacking me does not bother me a bit ====== from the way you have replied to others as well, I can see that you are projecting the very thing you complaint about ===== I respect your opinion even if baseless , and infantile ==== good luck

.

I didn't attack you. I very specifically worded it to attack the post, not the poster. Your post was almost absurdly wrong. I make no judgments on you as a person from it.

In a socialistic economy, the government is a prominent actor in the market, but there is still a market and there are many other actors.

In a command economy, there is no market or actors, only government directives.

I'm honestly not trying to be mean, but understanding the basic terms of macroeconomics is fundamental to there being able to be any sort of conversation. For example, while I disagree with the idea that a sales tax or VAT is fair, I made sure to acknowledge both sides. As I said before, it's a subjective opinion and there's room for respect on both sides of it. But there's not much to be done about someone who says they want a sales tax and begins talking about an income tax. The post makes it appear as if they simply don't know the meaning of the words they are using.

[RedThunderBird]

Originally Posted by Inkstain82

I didn't attack you. I very specifically worded it to attack the post, not the poster. Your post was almost absurdly wrong. I make no judgments on you as a person from it.

In a socialistic economy, the government is a prominent actor in the market, but there is still a market and there are many other actors.

In a command economy, there is no market or actors, only government directives.

I'm honestly not trying to be mean, but understanding the basic terms of macroeconomics is fundamental to there being able to be any sort of conversation. For example, while I disagree with the idea that a sales tax or VAT is fair, I made sure to acknowledge both sides. As I said before, it's a subjective opinion and there's room for respect on both sides of it. But there's not much to be done about someone who says they want a sales tax and begins talking about an income tax. The post makes it appear as if they simply don't know the meaning of the words they are using.

you have no idea of what you are saying , or worst you do ! but since I would not want this thread to be closed , it would truly be a shame when others are talking , and listening ===== I leave you with your opinion , and wish you well

[RedThunderBird]

oh ! now I remember you ===== you were the one who offended a few people including me , for saying that people who sent their children to private schools were racist ==== you are just as rude as in the previous thread , and now you want to bring it here too ====== not nice

[RedThunderBird]

now i do ask with a great deal of respect ---- not to engage in any conversation with me . thank you

[RedThunderBird]

well I wish there was not need for this ==== I love open dialogue but no when it comes to this ===== I just learn how to add a poster to the ignore list ====

[cptacek]

So when they say they are going to introduce a VAT, does that mean the current income tax system is going away? Or is the same old system still going to be there, but IN ADDITION we get to pay sales tax too?

[RedThunderBird]

from what I know ==== it would be a V ADDED t ==== you may want to check at Wikipedia === but is another way to tax besides the ones we already have

[RedThunderBird]

I do recommend reading the article , since is more clear than my answer ==== though it adds new taxes , in particular to the consumer