Best jacket/coat investment

[nick__45]

I am going to Russian for 3 weeks and need a very warm and comfortable jacket that is not too bulky. Something along the line as The North Face Triclimate series is great but I would prefer something much lighter and may be not as bulky if possible as I probably would wear 2 shirts underneath. Do Down jacket breath as I don't want to take off any layer and risk getting sick and ruin my trip.

This trip is for next year so I can wait for lower prices. However, I don't want to buy from ebay as I would hate to get a fake jacket and be screwed when in the cold. If all goes well, I may transfer there for a higher salary increase and much lower cost of living for a few years.

Any advice from folks in cold region would be greatly appreciated. I live in the D.C/Maryland region so it does get cold but temperature fluctuates and rarely spend time outdoor here. However, I'll be outdoor for the Russia gig most of the time.

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If you'll be in a non-touristy area, prices are a mere fraction of what they are in the US (and Russian know how to keep warm). It also depends on what part of Russia you'll be in as to the weather. You may not be as unprepared as you think.

[snafu]

nick, we in the frozen Canadian north know from experience that several factors keep you comfortable no matter how ghastly weather. If you're just dashing from apartment/office to car layering is likely most effective. Keep head covered and feet dry.

1st, significant heat is lost from your head. Lightweight, knit toques or balaclavas are important if you will be walking a lot. Wool socks over top regular socks in Sorel boots keep feet warm and dry. Layering clothes is more important than the price/brand of down jacket. We use silk, two piece 'long johns' at skin for outdoor activities + shirt + sweater. Denim/blue jeans are a poor choice as they take a long time to dry if they get wet from snow and sleet. Cashmere lining in leather gloves is warmer than fur; mittens are warmer than gloves. It's helpful to have both long and normal scarves. DH likes Northface brand best mostly because their jackets are longer [cover butt]. 550 goose down fill, waterproof, rip stop fabric, zip + snap front with detachable hood. You can squish down apparel in vacuum bags and after a few days shake-out they will regain loft.

When we worked in China were were surprised to discover it was colder inside buildings than outside. You need fleece anoraks, cashmere sweaters and gloves with half fingers that allow you to do assigned tasks. Buy jackets with dull colors that don't show dirt as you lose 'loft' when garments are cleaned [grey, navy, black].

[Mjenn]

Ok I guess it really depends on if this is going to be a future investment or not. Where we live it gets pretty cold, and the weather is pretty bad, so we have invested in very good winter gear because we are outside all the time.

But if you don't relocate to Russia, are you going to use a jacket? We have arcteryx and fjallraven here, very expensive but great quality. But for your needs a north face 3 in one sounds like a good deal. Personally, I skip down and find the synthetics are really great and more wearable. Both DH and I prefer to do layers, so we each have one really good sweater/fleece which is very warm on its own and comfortable. We layer that with either a heavy duty rain/wind proof layer, if we are going out to walk the dog, or a more conventional coat, if we are going to the office or out for an occasion, so it looks a little nicer.

This has worked for us. I admit I balked initially at spending 300$ on a coat, but considering I use it for years and it keeps me warm, it has been worth the money.

You might check out moosejaw.com that is where we have gotten a lot of our gear on sale. They are very helpful....

[nick__45]

Originally Posted by Mjenn

Ok I guess it really depends on if this is going to be a future investment or not. Where we live it gets pretty cold, and the weather is pretty bad, so we have invested in very good winter gear because we are outside all the time.

But if you don't relocate to Russia, are you going to use a jacket?

Yeah, even if I don't relocate to Russia, I will still use the jacket as it does get in the teen and low 20s here although it doesn't stay like that due to lack of snow and too many rivers around here. I just wouldn't need to wear too many layers though.

I was looking at these jackets from The North Face:

Parka long length - extremely warm but a little puffy and don't allow too much movement due to length passing the butt area.


Gotham - extremely warm but doesn't cover the butt area; therefore, it allows very easy movement, which is essential for me when walking around the job site.

They don't have my size at Tyson Corner mall but I can get it online; however, it is pretty easy to get a fake from online if shopped at the wrong stores.

nick, we in the frozen Canadian north know from experience that several factors keep you comfortable no matter how ghastly weather. If you're just dashing from apartment/office to car layering is likely most effective. Keep head covered and feet dry.

1st, significant heat is lost from your head. Lightweight, knit toques or balaclavas are important if you will be walking a lot. Wool socks over top regular socks in Sorel boots keep feet warm and dry. Layering clothes is more important than the price/brand of down jacket. We use silk, two piece 'long johns' at skin for outdoor activities + shirt + sweater. Denim/blue jeans are a poor choice as they take a long time to dry if they get wet from snow and sleet. Cashmere lining in leather gloves is warmer than fur; mittens are warmer than gloves.

I got a pretty warm hat. It is those goofy cartoon type head wear that is actually pretty warm. I'll be wearing my steel-toe Red Wing roper boots with wool socks and switch the socks out every few hours because my Red Wing leather doesn't breath very well. It is very good at waterproofing but I can usually feel moister after several hours here. Fortunately, it is very high top so I haven't got cold feet yet. As soon as my feet gets remotely cold in Russia, I'll go switch out socks at one of the several warm trailers onsite. It is just that when I am working, it is strictly outdoor but there are warm trailers/station every 50 yards where the computers and electronics are.

I'll be buying these things in the U.S. because I don't want to get a wrong to get ripped off in Russia and be left with ineffective gear that will cost me my trip or even my life. I'll be stationed at Volgograd, aka Stalingrad. From what I read, there are a lot of shops but they cater to Russians who know how to dress and are more conditioned for the environment over there unlike me. I just want to keep warm without too many layers and have breatheable gear so I don't have to take the jacket off to cool off. I don't know if The North Face Artic Parka has pit zip or not. This feature is a life-saver in my Lands' End jacket, which is a cheap rendetion of The North Face's Triclimate series jackets. I use the pit zip on it a lot in West Virginia because Lands' Jacket doesn't breath very well once I started moving around and build up good body heat. It is good waterproofing though and very warm.

By the way, I get to claim up to 400 dollars for gears so I figure around 250-300 dollars will be for jackets and the rest will be for wool socks. I have boots, gloves, and head gears already.

The reason I call it investment is that it is way cheaper to spend money on a good jacket, which I get reimbursement for then get sick and loose the contract or be permanently hurt or dead from poor clothing.

[nick__45]

I heard that The North Face's quality may not be as good as it was before, when only hikers and outdoor people use them. I don't know if this is an urban myth stirred by those jealous of the brand fans due to extreme pricing by their entry level jackets, which runs above a hundred dollars. Price only start to make sense when you go higher as your life and comfort level are much easier to justify the higher cost.

I also look at a jacket from Columbia that has a built-in heating system. It does run about 700 dollars but I don't like the fact that they use propriety battery instead of lithium battery similar to laptop and comes with easy charging system.

[snafu]

nick, you are not traveling to Antarctica, Arctic, or northern Canada where weather at minus 40 C [-40F], combined with wind chill factor 90 can cause skin to freeze in under two minutes. [Minus 32 is where Celsius and Fahrenheit intersect to equal.]

Winter in Volgograd [Stalingrad] averages around minus 12C [-10F], wind chill 23 making Antarctic gear inappropriate. Imagine preparing to go to Buffalo, NY. What would you need? Start with gear you already own. A NORTHFACE parka, silk long johns, quality fleece that doesn't pill [wash inside-out], Scottish cashmere sweater, scarf, wool socks, gloves and mittens and down filled slipper/booties for warm toes off hours easily uses up your clothes allowance.

Do you know what accommodations [housing] you get and how it's heated? You can be more uncomfortable after hours than on-the-job. I hope you're in a 4-5 star International Chain Hotel.

[nick__45]

Unfortunately, I won't be able to stay in any hotel because most hotels near the job site are pretty horrible. We'll be in cabins and heating will be wood stoves. According to people who went there before me, it is actually very good setup and very comfortable and warm, although it is very small to what we Americans are used to. We'll be doing 12 hours shift for 6 days (7 if we're running behind) a week and get to drive in back in town on Saturday for some R&R. There'll be plenty of extra time pay as I don't have pay differential benefit when working over the standard 8 hrs/day. If I decide to do a one year or more detail assignment, we'll get a apartment in town and I'll do the crazy 100 miles each way commute to the site. It doesn't matter much since I drive 40+ miles one way now and don't get pay for that.

As for the jacket, I have decide to go with The North Face Gotham due to comfort over the Parka. They are essentially the same with the Parka running past the buttock. I'll just wear it over my waterproof coverall, 2-piece long john, and a long sleeve shirt. Of course, I'll have an old t-shirt as a first layer as that is the item I'll change out every day and reuse the long john 3-4 days a week since I don't anticipate being sweaty and get much dirt on it. I avoid washing long john whenver possible because the new types aren't as durable but are much warmer, thinner, and more comfortable. Minus 12 degrees isn't too bad but it is something I haven't had experience for. The lowest I encountered was minus 5 and that was from camping in the mountains of West Virginia

I am hoping to make about $3k-$4.5 in travel per-diem in 3 weeks.

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Originally Posted by nick__45

I'll be buying these things in the U.S. because I don't want to get a wrong to get ripped off in Russia and be left with ineffective gear that will cost me my trip or even my life. I'll be stationed at Volgograd, aka Stalingrad.

You can get ripped off in the West just as easily. I've been in St Petersburg in the dead of winter and didn't freeze to death (though it was pretty darned cold). Whereas St Peters is 59 degrees latitude, Volograd is only 48. Russia is not nearly as frightening as you may think.

[gattaca]

I lived in Montreal for 3 years. I found that having a jacket that can block the wind was really important. I liked the longer coat to keep warm while waiting for the bus. I also noticed some people wore ski pants while waiting for the bus. Wearing a hat was also really important for staying warm. I was able to buy a knit hat that had a fleece lining.

Also make sure to have boots that will keep your feet warm. I had a pair of boots from Columbia that were rated to -20C. They also had a thick sole so that the cold didn't come up through the bottom as would a regular pair of shoes.

[Mjenn]

Depending on where you are, you might want to rethink waterproof under your jacket. Even the best ones don't breathe as well as other fabrics. Most people here do waterproof as a top layer so it is easy to remove. Your main issue might be actually retaining sweat under your garment, and thus being very uncomfortable. Of course if you sit still while you work it might not be as big a problem, but I walk at least an hour a day year round far north and would not be happy in such a combo.

[nick__45]

Originally Posted by Mjenn

Depending on where you are, you might want to rethink waterproof under your jacket. Even the best ones don't breathe as well as other fabrics. Most people here do waterproof as a top layer so it is easy to remove. Your main issue might be actually retaining sweat under your garment, and thus being very uncomfortable. Of course if you sit still while you work it might not be as big a problem, but I walk at least an hour a day year round far north and would not be happy in such a combo.

There'll be plenty of walking so I'll be changing out wool socks every hour or so, whenever needed. My Red Wing leather roper doesn't break well or at least the current cotton (or whatever material) socks I have are good because my feet get sweaty a lot after a few hours of work. My job requires a lot of walking being that I am site director and Red Wing roper is the most comfortable steel toes I ever had without going broke. I saved my toes and ankles a few times. I would love to wear Keen, The North Face, or Merrell hiking sneakers or boots but those don't come with steel or composite toes. There is a cobbler here offering to make me steel toe boxes for any shoes for 150 dollars. That costs almost as much as my Red Wing after Union discount and they look like something out of Mad Max. This is my first real steel toes boots and roper tends to fit better and much more comfortable while providing excellent waterproof, ankle, shin protection. I might just use baby powder to keep my feet dry too.

[SeanH]

If there is one nearby I would recommend taking a stroll to an R.E.I. They sell high quality (sometimes expensive) outdoor gear, but whether you purchase from them or not their associates have always been very helpful/knowledgeable to me in the past.

[snafu]

nick, you are free to do as you chose but you asked and have received very practical advice from photo with Russian experience, Mjenn and I who live with weather issues that are unknown in your region. Planning to drive 100 miles after a shift in winter, in the dark, in Russia, in a made-in-the-Balkans vehicle is not SMART. The danger comes from abrupt changes in weather and road conditions even if they give you a professional driver. Do you know that tires freeze and go 'square'?

Steel toe, ankle supported boots are likely important for safety. I suggest taking your Redwings to a couple of places to get a few sets of gel replacement inserts that are typically sold for snowboarding boots. They will protect your feet from snow/ice and you put the original insoles back in place when you return home. Should you decide a 2nd pair of boots helpful for off hours, chose something with thick external soles as already mentioned. Take a chance and buy once you arrive.