resturants that auto-bill the tip, your thoughts?

[NetSkyBlue]

As a server, I can tell you that no, I don't like the added-on gratuity for large parties. It tends to upset customers who feel like their choice has been taken away, and to be honest, I get larger tips without employing it.

As for servers getting paid slave wages, yeah, base wage is a joke, but I don't know of any other non-professional or non-technical job where you can consistently make over $20 an hour. I made over $100 an hour one night last year (and not just from one crazy big tip).

The one time I do like the added-on gratuity to be employed is for gift certificates. At my restaurant, we typically have a gift certificate offer on restaurants.com for a $25 certificate, which states on there that they require the 15% tip to be added on. SO many people do not tip off the full price of a meal when using a gift certificate, and the POS system at my restaurant will not allow a tip to be more than 50% of the bill on a credit card transaction. (I suppose this prevents dishonest people from adding on outrageous tips when closing a credit card transaction)

But if you have a $30 check and use a $25 gift certificate, you would only run the credit card for $5, so the maximum tip we could add on to a credit card transaction would be $2.50 (8% of the total check), regardless of what the customer wrote down as a tip.

[NetSkyBlue]

Originally Posted by snafu

What bothers me about that automatically added gratuity is that I doubt the server gets the benefit. I think the 'house' disperses only part to the server. Anyone who has worked in the industry care to assure me I'm wrong?

While we'll put a meal on plastic, I always tip cash because I want the server to 'tip out' as they feel warranted.

At my restaurant, we 'tip out' based on our total sales, not our tips. Say, if total sales came to $1037, we'd give 1% of that to the kitchen and 1% to the bar - $10 to the kitchen, $10 to the bar. And if some tables didn't tip - tough luck, 2% still gets tipped out.

[yugugelizer]

As a former server, this topic is near and dear to me. To all that dislike the idea of added gratuity, please note that it is not added to just your bill, but is a policy of the restaurant made by management to protect servers from "bad tips" added to everyone's bill; yes, under 15% is a bad tip anywhere, and at nicer restaurants, under 18%. The reason is that the nicer the restaurant, the more people get tipped out. At the restaurant I worked at, tip-out was 4.5% of sales (food runners, back waiters, hosts, and bartenders).

For those that are good tippers, do not take offense to gratuity being added. It is not being added for you, but for other less generous tippers. When you say "I would have tipped more, but you added gratuity so I'm going to punish you," think about it, you tip well because you know propper tipping etiquette, don't take it out on the server that they need to protect themselves from those who don't.

I agree with Disney Steve, if you have real complaints, talk about it. I can't tell you how many times I have had tables say everything is great, only to leave 10%. How am I supposed to know whether they just didn't say what was wrong, or are just bad tippers. Also, be advised that you will be remembered, and though servers will not intentionally give you bad service, if you are known to be a 15%er, when youre server is busy, you may not be a top priority - again, they don't do this to be rude, but choices must be made, who would you rather keep happy, the 20+% tipper, or the 15% tipper?

Lastly, there are a lot of complaints about the requirement to tip on price of the meal; while I don't disagree with the argument, that is the way it is. You are not going to change that by tipping low, you are just going to look rude. When you decided to go out, and order the expensive menu items, you made that choice, don't make it the servers fault that you overspent.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by yugugelizer

Lastly, there are a lot of complaints about the requirement to tip on price of the meal; while I don't disagree with the argument, that is the way it is. You are not going to change that by tipping low, you are just going to look rude. When you decided to go out, and order the expensive menu items, you made that choice, don't make it the servers fault that you overspent.

That's true. It isn't the servers fault. I don't think anyone was suggesting that it is. We were just pointing out the fault in the system. If a tip is supposed to reward service, it shouldn't be based on price since that has no correlation to service. I'm more likely to give you a good tip if you keep my water glass filled regardless of whether I ordered $10 pasta or $40 lobster.

[yugugelizer]

"That's true. It isn't the servers fault. I don't think anyone was suggesting that it is. We were just pointing out the fault in the system. If a tip is supposed to reward service, it shouldn't be based on price since that has no correlation to service."

Agreed.

What I am trying to point out, is that there may be faults in the system, but that is the way it works. But, whether someone tips low because of financial, moral, or any other reason, you are hurting the little guy (the server) who has no control over the system. Percentage of price is a starting point and should be adjusted accordingly, but I do feel that a lot of people (not just on here) don't understand how the tip system works; the server doesn't just pocket all the money. I have come across very few servers who have ever intentionally given bad service. I am not saying "tip 20% anyway", but have some understanding and don't tip 10%. "Server's fault" was a poor choice of words, but purposely or not, when people give a poor tip, I feel that more often than not, they are taking everything that might have gone wrong in their experience out on the server - who may or may not have had control over it.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by yugugelizer

What I am trying to point out, is that there may be faults in the system, but that is the way it works. But, whether someone tips low because of financial, moral, or any other reason, you are hurting the little guy (the server) who has no control over the system. Percentage of price is a starting point and should be adjusted accordingly, but I do feel that a lot of people (not just on here) don't understand how the tip system works; the server doesn't just pocket all the money. I have come across very few servers who have ever intentionally given bad service. I am not saying "tip 20% anyway", but have some understanding and don't tip 10%. "Server's fault" was a poor choice of words, but purposely or not, when people give a poor tip, I feel that more often than not, they are taking everything that might have gone wrong in their experience out on the server - who may or may not have had control over it.

I totally agree. I said that earlier. Maybe the fault is in the kitchen. Maybe the fault lies with the server being assigned too many tables. I gave the example of our dinner for 26 people last week with one waitress. She couldn't' possibly have given what I would have considered good service with that many people to manage at one time. That's not her fault, and I tipped her well for handling it as well as she did under the circumstances.

[97guns]

op here, i see that most of you don't mind this "added gratuity" but i stricly as a consumer feel it is bad practice and i find myself taking my business elswhere little by little. just this past june we had a 100th birthday party for my grandmother, we would have had it there but decided on another place instead. that "bad practice" costed their business $1700 for 2 hours worth of work. again this is the perspective from a consumer, a very thrifty as you all call it consumer.

[nick__45]

Originally Posted by 97guns

op here, i see that most of you don't mind this "added gratuity" but i stricly as a consumer feel it is bad practice and i find myself taking my business elswhere little by little. just this past june we had a 100th birthday party for my grandmother, we would have had it there but decided on another place instead. that "bad practice" costed their business $1700 for 2 hours worth of work. again this is the perspective from a consumer, a very thrifty as you all call it consumer.

How much would you tip for 1700 dollars check? I know those in the grunt industry would love their unrealistic 20% of the amount but I wonder what you, as a consumer, felt was appropriate. By the way, was the check divided or someone paid for it all? I find that waitresses hate to split the check as that mean they have to use their tiny brain, which is incapable of realizing that they tend to get more tip with seperated checks as people will tip 15-30% individually instead of a fair amount. For example, if your party last 2 hours, the appropriate tip should be $50 for good service. That is $25 dollars tax-free per hour just for your table. Most office workers don't make that much after taxes.

[nick__45]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

I totally agree. I said that earlier. Maybe the fault is in the kitchen. Maybe the fault lies with the server being assigned too many tables. I gave the example of our dinner for 26 people last week with one waitress. She couldn't' possibly have given what I would have considered good service with that many people to manage at one time. That's not her fault, and I tipped her well for handling it as well as she did under the circumstances.

Tipping should be for service and not be based on subtotal cost of the bill. By the way, some people don't know this but customers should NOT be expected to consider tax when coming up with a tip based on the 15, 20, or 30 percents ratio. If you let waitresses make the rule, they'd say the proper tipping rule is to tip on the whole amount, taxed included, and that is very wrong. I don't tip Uncle Sam and I should have to do that to benefit waitresses. If tipping was ever based on amount, most of my waitresses would be getting less than a dollar from me since my tap is very low. But they usually get $50 from me for less than $10 in beer tab. My normal tab is usually 4 dollars for 2 beers I drink during happy hours on Friday night before heading home. I hang out for 2 hours at the bar talking to my buddy and I tip according to beauty and service.

By the way, I don't tip male bartenders. Sorry dudes, I go to bars to see hot girls while shooting the breeze with friends. If you serve, you already piss me off and you should be glad I didn't get up and go else where.

[NetSkyBlue]

Originally Posted by nick__45

How much would you tip for 1700 dollars check? I know those in the grunt industry would love their unrealistic 20% of the amount but I wonder what you, as a consumer, felt was appropriate. By the way, was the check divided or someone paid for it all? I find that waitresses hate to split the check as that mean they have to use their tiny brain, which is incapable of realizing that they tend to get more tip with seperated checks as people will tip 15-30% individually instead of a fair amount. For example, if your party last 2 hours, the appropriate tip should be $50 for good service. That is $25 dollars tax-free per hour just for your table. Most office workers don't make that much after taxes.

Wow. I guess it's super impressive that I managed to use my tiny brain to find myself a second job where I can take home enough to start saving up for a downpayment on a house.

And no, most waitstaff are not going to expect a percentage tip on a party of that size if it's not restaurant policy. But most $1700 checks are not a 2 hour ordeal, they are closer to 4 or 5 hours, and take 2-3 servers. It really depends if you're buying 2 $500 bottles of wine and lobster for a party of 6, or 300 bottles of beer and entrees for 25, the amount of work varies greatly.

As for splitting the check, the only time I sigh at having to do this is when I'm splitting a large party (6 - 12) into individual checks, with lots of drinks and appetizers, when I'm otherwise very busy. That three minutes it takes to move everything around in the computer and print 6-12 checks (not to mention the time it takes to make change for that many checks) can seem very rude to my next three tables who are all waiting on me to deliver something and have to wait for their "slow" waitress to get back to them. If you're the only table I've got - hey, I've got all the time in the world for you - but if not, I have to devote the same time and attention to my two-top around the corner. They may not be dropping a thousand bucks, but they deserve the same degree of special service.

And HELL yeah it would be great if we were paid for every hour of our service, but that's just not the way it's going to be. If people had to pay more per hour, they'd leave faster, and I'd have more turnover and more tables. Last night I had a 4 top spend 4.5 hours in the restaurant, the last two hours of which I was just getting them glass after glass of soda water. That's 2 hours of being a devoted server, selling nothing. Their bill was about $50 and I made around $8. But, that's just the breaks sometimes. A couple nights before I had a $30 tip for an hour's work. It averages out.

I've also worked a lot of big parties where 40-50 guests are milling around the room and two waitresses are fetching drinks for everyone, on separate tabs, some buying drinks for each other, and people just wander off without paying. No tip there, and who do you think is responsible for their tab?

[97guns]

for the tab that was $1700 we tipped $200, it was a buffet so the wait staff took dirty plates and helped set up prior to the party, it lasted close to 3 hours.

we as the consumer have the choice to give our business or take it elswhere. i still feel it is bad practice for the businees to tack it on, if they make 1 customer unhappy it is a poor business decision. the resturant knew we had my grandmothers 100th birthday so one of the waitresses asked where we had it, we told her we went to another place

like i said ive been going to this resturant for over 20 years, the wait staff and owners know us by name. we have gone there as much as 4-5 times a week, now we hardly go at all, maybee 1 or 2 times a month.

do what you want to do, after all its your business and your decisions but i never see a corporate resturant practice this.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by nick__45

How much would you tip for 1700 dollars check?

if your party last 2 hours, the appropriate tip should be $50 for good service.

How much would I tip if I hosted a party and the tab came to $1,700. In those settings (which I have been in more than once), I'll usually tip generously because I know dealing with a large party is much more of a hassle than several smaller parties. So on a $1,700 bill (pre-tax), I'd probably tip $350.

On your example of $50 for a 2 hour party, what is that based on? How many guests involved? $50 may or may not be appropriate depending on the size of the party and the amount of work involved.

Originally Posted by nick__45

customers should be expected to consider tax when coming up with a tip based on the 15, 20, or 30 percents ratio

Was that a typo? Did you mean to say customers should not consider tax? Tip should be based on the cost of the food before the tax is added.

If tipping was ever based on amount, most of my waitresses would be getting less than a dollar from me since my tap is very low. But they usually get $50 from me for less than $10 in beer tab. My normal tab is usually 4 dollars for 2 beers I drink during happy hours on Friday night before heading home. I hang out for 2 hours at the bar talking to my buddy and I tip according to beauty and service.

That's different. I think the rest of us were talking about dining out, not just going out for a drink. I agree that 20% isn't enough if you are taking up space for hours nursing a beer or two. In fact, even at a restaurant, especially if I'm alone and have something small like just a sandwich or salad, my tip is sometimes 50% of the cost because I know I still took the server's time and occupied a 4-person table that could have been filled with more lucrative customers, so I might leave a $10 bill to pay for a $6.50 sandwich.

By the way, I don't tip male bartenders.

Well then you shouldn't go to places that have male bartenders. If you choose to go there, then you need to behave appropriately.

Originally Posted by 97guns

for the tab that was $1700 we tipped $200, it was a buffet so the wait staff took dirty plates and helped set up prior to the party, it lasted close to 3 hours.

That's different. A buffet is not the same as a table service meal. At a buffet, I usually tip a couple of dollars per person regardless of the cost of the meal (though I will give a little more at a nicer buffet and a little less at a cheap buffet). This is where service really comes into play. If my empty dishes are wisked away as soon as I set them aside - good tip. If the dishes pile up over time - not so good tip.

[nick__45]

Originally Posted by NetSkyBlue

Wow. I guess it's super impressive that I managed to use my tiny brain to find myself a second job where I can take home enough to start saving up for a downpayment on a house.

And no, most waitstaff are not going to expect a percentage tip on a party of that size if it's not restaurant policy. But most $1700 checks are not a 2 hour ordeal, they are closer to 4 or 5 hours, and take 2-3 servers. It really depends if you're buying 2 $500 bottles of wine and lobster for a party of 6, or 300 bottles of beer and entrees for 25, the amount of work varies greatly.

As for splitting the check, the only time I sigh at having to do this is when I'm splitting a large party (6 - 12) into individual checks, with lots of drinks and appetizers, when I'm otherwise very busy. That three minutes it takes to move everything around in the computer and print 6-12 checks (not to mention the time it takes to make change for that many checks) can seem very rude to my next three tables who are all waiting on me to deliver something and have to wait for their "slow" waitress to get back to them. If you're the only table I've got - hey, I've got all the time in the world for you - but if not, I have to devote the same time and attention to my two-top around the corner. They may not be dropping a thousand bucks, but they deserve the same degree of special service.

And HELL yeah it would be great if we were paid for every hour of our service, but that's just not the way it's going to be. If people had to pay more per hour, they'd leave faster, and I'd have more turnover and more tables. Last night I had a 4 top spend 4.5 hours in the restaurant, the last two hours of which I was just getting them glass after glass of soda water. That's 2 hours of being a devoted server, selling nothing. Their bill was about $50 and I made around $8. But, that's just the breaks sometimes. A couple nights before I had a $30 tip for an hour's work. It averages out.

I've also worked a lot of big parties where 40-50 guests are milling around the room and two waitresses are fetching drinks for everyone, on separate tabs, some buying drinks for each other, and people just wander off without paying. No tip there, and who do you think is responsible for their tab?

You are the exception to the rule as far as buying a house and such. The fact that you can logically talk about it here is impressive. The fact is, if you wait on us at a family restaurant, you would get at least 50% tip but I rarely visit family restaurant. On the hand, most waitresses I deal with are idiots and the smart/nice one get over 200% in tips from me, if you do the math of tip amount over the cost. Most waitresses spend their tax-free earning on junks and once they are done looking good, they'll just be a regular waitress and back to reality.

[yugugelizer]

Originally Posted by nick__45

I know those in the grunt industry would love their unrealistic 20% of the amount but I wonder what you, as a consumer, felt was appropriate. I find that waitresses hate to split the check as that mean they have to use their tiny brain, which is incapable of realizing that they tend to get more tip with seperated checks as people will tip 15-30% individually instead of a fair amount.

I don't know why you feel it is appropriate to belittle everyone in a "grunt" industry, labeling them incompetent, but speaking as a 4.0 Accounting Master's student, trust me, when guests asked me to split a check, I was never upset because I needed to use my "tiny brain." The only time it ever bothered me to split checks was when I had large parties (10+) who decided to play musical chairs, ordered each other drinks all night, and decided to tell me after a 3 hour drinking binge that they would like split checks. Then, I would spend my time separating their checks, neglecting my other tables, and would have to explain to the guests that they, in fact, did order a round of drinks for all of their friends. After I spent all of this time, fixing an issue that would have never happened if they let me know in the first place that they were splitting checks, I get a couple dollars on 20$ from each. Now, with my "tiny brain", I can't calculate that, what percentage is that? Am I incapable of realizing that I tend to get a better tip with separate checks, or are you making assumptions without ever having worked in the industry?

As far as the OP's question, tip what you want. Like I have warned, servers remember good and bad tippers, trust me. And word spreads fast. If a server is busy, they are going to have to prioritize; usually higher tippers are at the top of the list. I don't know of a fine dining restaurant that does not have a grat; the reason is, you cannot keep good servers if they get poor tips from "big spenders, low tippers." As far as buffets, I would say 15% would be adequate, but good service is good service, no matter what level of restaurant.