Dave Ramsey Doesn't Work

[questions]

My wife and I took the Financial Freedom class for 3 months and did everything we could to get going on our baby steps. I took out an additional part-time job at 20 to 25 hours per week on top of my full-time 40-hour per week job while my wife was also working nearly full-time hours. We got a budget together, sold some things, got our emergency savings together, started paying down debt and did the best we could for nearly a year.

Then the bottom fell out. My wife had emergency back surgery, our savings went out the window, our debt load increased because of the medical bills, my wife was out of work for nearly two months and we're right back to square one all over again -- in the hole without any light.

I quit my part-time job after being there for a year because I was physically and emotionally exhausted working 7 days a week and barely ever seeing my three children or my wife. My relationships with my family deteriorated, I was edgy all the time because of working all the time, and our debt load -- even with a Dave Ramsey budget in place -- was still not paying down at a very fast rate. There was always something that popped up every month that the budget could account for.

We never go on vacations, don't have new cars (newest is 8 years old and other is 12 years old), can never afford family outings, just pay the basic bills each month, have no savings (since the surgery) and can't put together a meaningful budget on a monthly basis because the car keeps breaking down or a child gets sick and we have to go to the doctor and get medication, and we're still paying for another half year on my wife's medical bills for her back surgery.

I get very frustrated hearing all the success stories out there by people who do the Dave Ramsey plan and are out of debt within a few years. My wife and I make meager salaries and are trying our very best, but can never get over the hump because of stupid car/medical emergencies. There's only so much you can sell and so much budgeting you can do with limited funds.

And now, my wonderful 8th grade daughter just won a state competition at her school and is advancing to the national competition in Washington, D.C. But our reward is that there is no school funding going toward the trip (my wife is going with her since she is only 14 years old), so we have to come up with approximately $1,500 in the next 6 weeks. Oh the joy of life when you have no money, no savings and the bills keep piling up.

So Dave, would you be willing to help a person out with your enormous wealth?????? You'd probably just tell me to sell both my cars and ride a bike to work, continue to eat sandwiches with nothing but a little ketchup on it and continue to wear my hole-filled clothes and shoes for another few years so I don't get into further debt.

Ramsey has no real plan for when life hits you with constant financial hay makers. Just so tired of trying to do what is right for more than 16 years with very little to show for it and no closer to being out of debt than ever.

[jpg7n16]

If the Dave Ramsey plan would not work for you in your situation, then there was no plan that would have worked for you.

This has nothing to do with DR and more with you have gone through an excpetional string of bad financial luck.

You have tried to raise your income, while reducing your expenses. What other plan is there??


The DR plan is just fine - and still works for many people.

I would ask whoever submitted this question that you join the site and post your budget for review. Irrespective of any plan you attempt to try, you must try to raise your income and lower your expenses. Posting your budget will help you in that task.

Best of luck to you

[MonkeyMama]

Agreed.

I would advise spending more time with people who are worse off than you. Just something that came to mind reading your post. When I read your post you mentioned you couldn't afford newer cars, vacations, and this DC trip. So what? These are luxuries. I know plenty of people with ample savings and good incomes who can't justify any of those expenses. I think you could do well to spend some time in a soup kitchen, etc. I am not saying that you aren't having hard times yourself, but sometimes you just need that perspective.

[snafu]

Questions: I'm sad that life has handed you such huge challenges. I hope your wife is recovering and wonder if you would consider applying to one of the service clubs like Lions or Rotary to help with the cost of DD's trip. Does your church offer suggestions for funding?

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by questions

My wife and I took the Financial Freedom class for 3 months and did everything we could to get going on our baby steps. I took out an additional part-time job at 20 to 25 hours per week on top of my full-time 40-hour per week job while my wife was also working nearly full-time hours. We got a budget together, sold some things, got our emergency savings together, started paying down debt and did the best we could for nearly a year.

Great. You were following Dave Ramsey's plan and winning. Have you taken a moment to think about where you would be today had you not followed Dave's plan for that year? When your wife's surgery popped up, you wouldn't have had the emergency savings and you would have been deeper in debt with less income since you wouldn't have had the 2nd job.

Life happens. That isn't a failure of DR's plan. If anything, it points to the value of following his plan. Get back on the proverbial horse and keep riding. Build up the EF again and restart your debt snowball.

As for your daughter's school trip, that certainly is a luxury. As a parent, I can certainly understand not wanting to tell her she can't go but the money needs to come from somewhere. Is it essential that one of you go with her? Are other kids going that she could room with if she went on her own? Our 15-year-old daughter recently went to Dallas for 5 days for a youth group event. We didn't go with her but there was a group of kids going as well as adult chaperones.

What is she doing to help raise money for her trip? At 14, she is certainly old enough to babysit, mow lawns, walk dogs, set up a lemonade stand on the corner (2 kids in our neighborhood did this just the other day).

[cschin4]

Personally, I think Dave Ramsey is an idiot. I dont' like him or his obnoxious personality. And, he engages in magical thinking that if you do x, then y will happen and if you don't it is always your fault.
But, as for your situation. That is "life". Sorry. No guarantees. No bailouts. Nothing but you and your family forging ahead in good times and bad times, together, making the best of situations, loving one another and being grateful for another day. You can do that or not. The notion that everyone is "supposed" to become a millionaire by the time they are 30 or whatever is absurd. Some people can and spend too much. Some people make enough to get by and that's it and the best that they can or ever do. Obviously you do everything you can to put yourself in the best situation.
As for your daughter's band trip, if you can't afford it, she stays home. Oh well, that is part of life's lessons. Sorry. Not to be harsh and i hope you can understand that we all have lessons to learn and life isn't fair. We have 2 responses. We can wax on about unfair life is, be angry or we can enjoy what we have going for us today. Some people have more money and always will. Is it fair, just or whatever? I don't know, it is what it is. You can only play the cards you were dealt.
So, i would suggest that you simply just do the best you can. Try to make good decisions and choices. Live frugal but also enjoy life. There is a balance. You may not amass a fortune, but what is really important is being a good husband and father and person and that's it. Money comes and goes.

[cschin4]

Extracurriculars cost money. Whether they should or shouldn't, especially school related i don't know. I don't think school related things should have fees attached, if that is needed, then the schools need to downsize some of this insanity and plan a trip to play locally instead of alot of costly things.
But, there are things we don't join. My daughter wanted to join local gymnastics and i told her no. I am not going to pay $400 a month for her to do that. And, she isn't built for that anyway. You have to make decisions based on what you can afford. But, it doesn't mean your child is deprived. There are plenty of ways to have fun, be engaged, etc if you choose too.

[woodie96]

Wow.....sorry to hear about the bad string of luck you guys have been on. I'm inclined to agree with DS on this one, just imagine where you could have been had you not had at least something in savings and a working plan.
Although it is extremely rough, I think it could still be worse. Try to find the good/positive aspects of what you guys have left, and build from there.

JMHO

[Frugal]

I have studied Dave Ramsey, but also never agreed 100% with his principles. No matter what people say in his defense (and I am not saying he is a bad person at all, rather I disagree with him intellectually on money matters, and practically, as well) he became a multi-millionaire off of his program. It was FOR PROFIT, not just trying to help everyone else become rich like him, out of the goodness of his heart. He charges hundreds of dollars to already struggling people for his courses and workshops, to learn to implement his principles. Does he have the right to do this? Yes, we are a capitalist society, and everyone wants to make a buck. However, I don't feel it is right, what he charges for his courses.

I think that the local churches charge outrageous fees, as high as $200-$300 per couple, where they don't tell you any new information that is not in the books (I attended several with a family member). I felt like the sessions were a waste of time. However, they are required to charge those fees by DR organization, at least in part if not in whole.

I agree with him on some things, like the issue of debt. We do need to pay down debt. He just is not as realistic on paying it down, and what it means to the average person who is laid off, or has a stagnant salary that is going nowhere. His "solutions" really end up making people feel depressed, when not all of them are realistic for all of us.

Do we need to budget? Yes. Do we need to save and pay down debt? Certainly. However, there are common-sense ways you can figure out how to do this on your own, minus the commercialism and high prices to attend the Dave Ramsey workshops.

Sure I will ruffle some feathers with this one...but I am not going to pretend I didn't research this topic and try to make it work for myself by reading his book.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Congratulations to your daughter for her talent, knowledge, determination, or whatever factors got her into a national competition. She must be quite the kid and you must be very proud.

Without any further information, I would say that the $1500 school trip should be canceled. I know that is sad, but if you cannot afford it, you cannot afford it. And it is not a good idea to pass along to your children the idea that you just go for the luxuries when even the necessities are a struggle. If you handle it calmly and without bitterness, your daughter might feel dignity and even pride in being part of a family strong enough to make wise, difficult choices. Fourteen year old girls tend to have high hopes, but they often also have their eyes open and have more maturity than we give them credit for.

Keep working at the situation the best you can. Encourage each other in the effort and do what you can to lift each other's spirits in ways that have nothing to do with money.

[DebbieL]

I absolutely can't stand Dave Ramsey - however, I don't see how Dave Ramsey has anything to do with your situation OP. What we'd really need in order to be of any help to you is your income and your monthly outgoings (in other words a detailed budget). It is possible that you do have an income problem, but it is also possible that there is a spending problem. Feel free to post more detail and we will try to help you.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Frugal

I have studied Dave Ramsey, but also never agreed 100% with his principles.

I think that the local churches charge outrageous fees, as high as $200-$300 per couple, where they don't tell you any new information that is not in the books

there are common-sense ways you can figure out how to do this on your own, minus the commercialism and high prices to attend the Dave Ramsey workshops.

I also don't agree 100% with what he teaches, but I realize the value of it to people who are really struggling and don't know where to turn.

I would equate this to a program like Weight Watchers. They charge a fair amount of money to attend meetings to learn to do something that anybody and everybody should be able to do with common sense. Guess what? Look around you. Most people are obese, so the common sense thing just isn't working. Most people are in debt, so the common sense thing isn't working.

Dave Ramsey constantly says that he gives common sense basic advice. It isn't rocket science and he never pretends that it is or that he has some little known secret. He says it is all about changing behaviors. That can take motivation and coaching and support, which is what his system is based on. It isn't about the numbers. In fact, his math is often wrong, and he knows it. He isn't concerned with the math. He's concerned with the behavior. Same for Weight Watchers. Their focus is on getting people to pay attention to what they are eating and learn what an appropriate diet looks like and learn to fit that into their lifestyle.

[DebbieL]

Some of his advice is just plain wrong. He has some screwy ideas IMO. I also totally disagree with not paying down debt by highest to lowest interest. Just isn't logical, and costs more. Yes, yes, I've heard how people need to "feel good" by having one less debt to pay on. I think in dollar values, and his method doesn't make sense. He also has bad investment advice.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by DebbieL

Some of his advice is just plain wrong. He has some screwy ideas IMO. I also totally disagree with not paying down debt by highest to lowest interest. Just isn't logical, and costs more. Yes, yes, I've heard how people need to "feel good" by having one less debt to pay on. I think in dollar values, and his method doesn't make sense. He also has bad investment advice.

I would absolutely not recommend that anybody ever take investment advice from Dave Ramsey. I don't think his advice is appropriate for anyone in that department.

I personally tell people to pay down debt highest to lowest interest rate. Why? Because it saves you the most money and gets you debt-free the fastest. Why does Dave Ramsey do smallest to largest debt? Because his concern his behavior, not math, even if it means taking an extra 2 or 3 months to pay off the debts and costs a little extra money. Ultimately, both systems work and lead to the same result. Whichever system keeps you motivated and on track is fine with me. One is better financially but if the other is better emotionally, that's okay, too.

[Scanner]

I agree $1500 should be doable with babysitting and summer is coming up, if she wants to go that badly.

Frankly, I think it's unfair of the schools to spring that kind of an expense on parents with 6 weeks notice. These sort of things are supposed to be "teachable moment" and how can you teach a kid to work for something when there is only 6 weeks. Instead the schools are teaching the kids to think of parents as the First National Bank of Mom and Dad.

I dunno. . .I know how music teachers can get - their whole world kind of centers around these things. You talk to these people and they are the nicest people in the world. . .I mean that. . .but they are flakey as a lot.

Well, the world doesn't revolve around band competitions. I think I paid $1500 for my senior class trip but we had 9 months (actually longer, since Disney was a tradition at our high school). I ponied up some money and my parents ponied up the rest.

I worked off and on like a day laborer too throughout hte year - if someone needed help moving out of the house - $50. Mowing lawns - $15 (yeah, that was the going rate). Gardening - $5/hour. God bless my parents - they were like a Temp. Agency or a Day Laborer Agency and thru their network, score me odd jobs.

I started at age 13.

Good luck.

[snshijuptr]

I agree with so many others that your daughter is old enough to start working. Working up to 8-10 hours a week can actually help improve her grades and help her eventually get into college. She can babysit and do odd jobs for now. Ask any small business owners you know if they need help with copying, data entry, etc. She can pay for her own expenses, save for school trips, and save for college.

If your income is low look at getting free and reduced lunch for your children. The program is much more discreet now. If your wife is still not working, see if she can clip coupons, do surveys, or find other legitimate money saving/earning methods online.

[MonkeyMama]

I didn't even catch /notice the age of the daughter, first read. Good points. She can work and fundraise in regards to this school trip. Look at it as an opportunity for her to build some savings and get ahead of the curve before she is an adult. She will be stronger for it. Likewise, if she has to work hard for it, she might better realize it's really not worth it. The flip side is if she does think it is worth it, and works hard to make it happen. Either way - is a great learning opportunity for her.

[LuckyRobin]

I wonder if you daughter could get sponsored for her trip? One or maybe several businesses might be willing to partially pay for the trip. We have several businesses in our town that sponsor all kinds of academic and sports related events for children who would never be able to participate otherwise.

[maat55]

It works, I'm proof of it. Dave is preaching on this website this sunday. He will be part 5, if you like you can figure out how to watch the live broadcast or click part five on monday. He is very inspiring/entertaining as a preacher on personal finance.

LifeChurch.tv > Watch Messages

[clintdavis]

Several of you stated disagreement with Dave Ramsey's investment advice. What specifically do you disagree with, why, and what would you do differently and why?