Merit Pay for Teachers

[jpg7n16]

Originally Posted by littleroc02us

Some type of compromise should be in order using a little bit of merit and something else???

Yup. There are many factors that go into making a great teacher.

Relatability, student retention, overall scores, score improvement, extracurricular activities, leadership to other teachers, real world experience, etc.

The majority of which will not show up on a standardized test. So if I were a school administrator, and I were looking to keep the best teachers I had - scores would be an aspect of course, but there are other aspects that must be considered.

If I had a school, and a certain teacher had kids with average scores, but excelled in every other criteria (students loved him/her, students in their classes had significantly higher attendance rates and participated in more student activities, he/she was critical in helping run student organizations, and had a higher percentage of students go on to college) - I would pay them more than someone who got better scores, but the children hated him/her, dropout rates were higher, and he/she didn't participate in any student activities.

But having said that, if students loved a teacher, and they were very active and had good attendance rates, but all their students failed their section of exams - while passing other sections; who showed no improvement in the subject, while showing improvement in other subjects - something would have to change. A lovable teacher who doesn't help students learn anything isn't doing enough.


My basic point is - you can't judge a teacher's value solely on test scores. And if you can't judge their value that way, you shouldn't determine their pay that way either.

[GREENBACK]

Does merit pay invite a bit of corruption? Teachers may look at artificially inflating grades if they know there is something in it for them. I've seen this done for star collegiate athletes and was disgusted by it.

[StepRightUp]

Greenback, this does indeed happen. I just read the book Freakonomics in which the author found a portion of Chicago Public School teachers literally changing students' answers on the tests. In any group of individuals there will be a portion of cheaters. (They were fired btw.)

[greenskeeper]

The gravy train for teachers and other public workers is coming to an end.

[GREENBACK]

Originally Posted by greenskeeper

The gravy train for teachers and other public workers is coming to an end.

Maybe you're right but I wouldn't get too confident. If the results of the changes mean worse teachers and poorer public service I can see the pendulum swinging back the other way. Politics always seem to work this way.

[greenskeeper]

Originally Posted by GREENBACK

Maybe you're right but I wouldn't get too confident. If the results of the changes mean worse teachers and poorer public service I can see the pendulum swinging back the other way. Politics always seem to work this way.

the us govt is broke, the states are broke, the local govt is broke. Where will the money come from?

[GREENBACK]

Originally Posted by greenskeeper

the us govt is broke, the states are broke, the local govt is broke. Where will the money come from?

Hopefully it will come from addressing needed fixes to the medicare and medicaid systems, prison systems and from not sprinting off to fight everyone else's wars.This is where the true excess is. Education is costly but, in my opinion, critical. Public employee's are a tiny slice of the problem. It's just a soft target to go after right now without addressing the major issues at hand.

There are lot's of fixes needed but the politicians are playing the same old game. The attack on teachers and public workers is an attack on unions and nothing more. I live in Ohio and have seen the numbers here. Medicaid and prisons outstrip the costs associated with public workers by a mile but what was the first target of the new administration?....public worker's unions and teachers unions.

I'm not left leaning by any means but it's as obvious as a wart on your nose. This is about seizing control in 2012 by crushing the money flow of the opposition. It will be buisness as usual after that. When you get worse teachers and poorly equipped cops and firefighters it can make you think twice about where the money should be going.

[Mjenn]

Originally Posted by greenskeeper

The gravy train for teachers and other public workers is coming to an end.

I know - seriously I only went into teaching for the money and grandiose lifestyle - if they take that away from me, I am so out of here!!!

But in another reality - I am not a teacher, and this current attack on teachers is sadly misguided- IMHO. In reading about all of these cuts and demands on teachers, I wonder if the same officials are willing to take cuts in their salaries (Christie I'm talking to you) and benefits.

I find a merit based system for something like teaching to be completely unfair if it is only test based, and while somewhat fair if it is based on an assessment by peers and principals on a local level - I fear the only real result of this will be to push good people away from the teaching profession - people we need in the teaching profession - and only attract the people who 'can't find anything else to do.'

[snafu]

I think most teachers would be ok with the merit system if the criteria was well defined and understood by all the stakeholders. Test scores alone would be grossly unfair for teachers working in school districts where education is not valued. Teachers can't remove disruptive kids or kids who don't show up for class.

In private schools, parents can be asked to remove kids who don't 'fit in' with the school's value system. Public teachers must cope with whoever they get. Perhaps students should participate in the system by being chosen by teachers! In some schools with "Leadership' programs, the students apply to take each of the two semesters and the instructor chooses the students s/he believes will benefit most from understanding the skill sets needed to be a successful leader. Chosen students are given multiple opportunities to manage and direct fellow students working on school events.

I've seen these kids years later and been told by parents that a leadership class profoundly changed their child from an unmotivated student into a self confident, teen, who wanted to do their best having finally discovered they could excel in at least one aspect of learning.

[shanecurran]

The problem with these types of laws are that the teachers end up teaching to the tests which is not good for the overall education of our youth.