How would you consider this situation in the Boston area

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by LuxLiving

Syracusa, are you including your rental income from GA home in your income calculations?

That's a wash. We cover the mortgage with what we get in rent.

[Merch]

HCOLA is high cost of living area - think NYC, San Francisco, Boston.

Most Americans believe in capitalistic approach, but I disagree with your nomadic life. I have lived in Boston and worked here my entire life. I have worked for various financial firms in the city. I could have had more lucrative jobs in NYC. My wife and I have chosen to stay in Boston for a more balanced life. I make less, but I am home before 7 pm.

[DayByDay]

we would simply not be able to live all crammed into a 2 BR condo. Living above your means is one thing. Completely destroying your family's quality of life is another.

We are a family of 4 (including one adult child and one small child) living in a 2 BR. Our family's quality of life is not "completely destroyed."

I don't understand your complaints about the US that has been providing you good income opportunity for many years, especially when you admit that in your home country you "would have to secure some sort of satisfactory working arrangement for living there and this will take some time."

I don't care how much theoretical freedom to achieve "sky's-the-limit" goals there is in any given socio-economic system, as long as only very few get there while most people live in constant fear of losing their jobs, of being uprooted and of losing their local support system. It is a dangerous, unstable way of living, conducive to very low quality of life and because we recongize it as such, we are indeed working towards living this country in a few years.

Most people I know do not experience what you describe. How is your home country different and which country are you talking about?

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by Merch

HCOLA is high cost of living area - think NYC, San Francisco, Boston.

Oh. We had no choice. LCOL is not an option when there is NO job in that area. Again, my salary would not have been enough to support the entire family, husband has zero opportunities left in this area (he is highly specialized). Besdies, he would have made a much worse stay-at-home parent than I would and probably, would have slowly gone insane.
He wants to work and Boston had a job for him.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by Merch

HCOLA is high cost of living area - think NYC, San Francisco, Boston.

Most Americans believe in capitalistic approach, but I disagree with your nomadic life. I have lived in Boston and worked here my entire life. I have worked for various financial firms in the city. I could have had more lucrative jobs in NYC. My wife and I have chosen to stay in Boston for a more balanced life. I make less, but I am home before 7 pm.

You are the exception. New England is the least mobile part of the US.
Most Americans I know have been hopping from place to place since childhood. Not a lifestyle I fancy.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by DayByDay

Most people I know do not experience what you describe. How is your home country different and which country are you talking about?

The entire Europe is much more stable than the US is. People don't move around that much and they don't lose their jobs at the drop of a hat. Yes, jobs are indeed harder to get but also to lose. Yes, the economy is not as dynamic and as growth-oriented as it is in the US but people there like it this way just fine (I guess just like Americans are OK with moving around their entire lives).
I would too if I'd been lucky enough to establish my career there. When you do get a job, you can typically count on it for a long while. Things have been changing there some too in the "unstable" direction, but only SOME. However, I have never seen there the uprooting madness I see in the US.

My parents are still not over the shock that we had to pack up an entire household and move in the blink of an eye for a job that could easily disappear just like the first one did. My father keeps asking me: but can they lay him off in this new job? I respond: yes. He is left speechless. Then he asks: then what?
I answer: you move again. The system expects you to. Then my father mumbles something about the system and where we should ideally shove it and invites us home.
Not a bad idea - but yes, you are right, we will have to figure out the job part. It will not have to pay a lot as mortgage is not an issue there.

[carpevacationum]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you thinking that here in the U.S. you need to pack up and move at the drop of a hat to a job that you could also lose at the drop of a hat because that is how the system is.

I've lived here in Massachusetts for almost 30 years. During that time we've had jobs and lost jobs. But we chose to stay and figure out a way to make it work. And most other people here in New England and around the country are doing the same thing.

You are free to decide not to take the job and relocate. Not that this decision would be the right one or easy one. But...you are not forced to do anything.

You also have the choice to decide to "downsize" your lifestyle considerably and find other employment. Yes the economy stinks now, but there are always opportunities. Problem is most people feel they have no choice and are living a lifestyle simply beyond their means.

There is always the option of moving into a smaller home, cut out your cable bills, don't use credit cards, don't take fancy vacations, etc.. (I am speaking about people in general here).

Like I said, I live in MA which most people consider a HCOLA. That being said, we have made the choice to never move for a job and have kept our living expenses low enough that even if my husband was to lose his job, we would survive here. I truly believe that if there is a will there is a way.

I urge you to consider trying to find a way to move back to Europe if that is what you truly want. We only get one chance at life and it is way too short to not be happy about the life you are living. That may require you re-thinking your standard of living or trying to find other means of employment. But like I said...if there is a will, there is a way.

Good luck to you!

[carpevacationum]

Forgot to mention that I also noted that you said you already have a house paid off in Europe. Wouldn't that make it even easier for you to transition "home" because you wouldn't need to make as much?

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by carpevacationum

Forgot to mention that I also noted that you said you already have a house paid off in Europe. Wouldn't that make it even easier for you to transition "home" because you wouldn't need to make as much?

None of us has any job prospects there right now. While a roof paid off over your head is great, you still need money for other things.
My husband hopes to eventually turn his career into an online arrangement, but he needs to work a few years at this job first.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by DayByDay

We are a family of 4 (including one adult child and one small child) living in a 2 BR. Our family's quality of life is not "completely destroyed."

I admire you for making do with 4 people into a 2BR apartment.
However, I work from home so I need an office-like space one way or the other. We also have family visit for longer periods of time - so 2BR for a family of 4 (often +) is simply not an option for us.

[DayByDay]

Originally Posted by syracusa

I admire you for making do with 4 people into a 2BR apartment.
However, I work from home so I need an office-like space one way or the other. We also have family visit for longer periods of time - so 2BR for a family of 4 (often +) is simply not an option for us.

Actually, I work from home also. I have a nice office set-up in the corner of the dining area. For your guests, you can buy a sofa bed or have them stay at a nearby hotel.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by DayByDay

Actually, I work from home also. I have a nice office set-up in the corner of the dining area. For your guests, you can buy a sofa bed or have them stay at a nearby hotel.

Ask my mom and dad to stay at a nearby hotel for 2-3 months?
Not really. I'd rather live "dangerously" than do that.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Actually it's a lot of money for my DH's tuition. A lot. We're talking $25k/year after taxes. And without kids we're paying taxes up the wazoo.

And we live in the 15 miles of the city. We have high heating bills and balanced budget billing for heat at $250/month. And electric $250/month.

And previously MA had state run car insurance. We were paying $1200/year for liability only.

Syracusa, so judgmental. We have no credit card debt, no car loans, and $25k in student loans. And yes we are struggling. Sorry it's hard to believe but our mortgage, taxes, and tuition is a lot. We drive two beaters and we aren't getting a new car for the new baby. Instead we just paid to save our dog instead of new car.

We had a lot of other bills crop up in home repairs EVERY year we've lived here, at about $6k/year. And we do go home to visit both internationally and across the country at least 1x/year. So yes if we cut that, we could live a lot more luxuriously.

I admit we save a lot so that's part of the struggle. But we refuse to adjust our lifestyle down to not save. To us that was a compromise of moving here. We would make do with less or else.

I PERSONALLY cannot wait to move away and live somewhere cheaper. I know our quality of life will drastically improve.

In Boston, average newborn care is $2200/month. Daycare is $1800/month. Outside the city? Say 20-30 miles it's still infant care is $1800-2k/month. After 1 year? Outside the city is $1500-1800/month. I know Boston daycare because I've priced out places recently as in right now! These are ridiculous prices, but most of our friends are paying it because they live in the city. Within walking distance to public transit, within the 95 ring to give you an idea of "city" living.

The areas a lot of people are naming, I would consider "living" in MA, but not in Boston. Boston definitely you'll be paying a lot more.

If your husband is working redding, live out there! Save a lot of money. Honestly? Who needs the city when you have kids?

I'm too tired to go out anymore and top it off with our sick dog? We have curtailed going out big time. I'm not saying we didn't before, but our lifestyle I think has changed already (personally).

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by LivingAlmostLarge

Actually it's a lot of money for my DH's tuition. A lot. We're talking $25k/year after taxes. And without kids we're paying taxes up the wazoo.

And we live in the 15 miles of the city. We have high heating bills and balanced budget billing for heat at $250/month. And electric $250/month.

And previously MA had state run car insurance. We were paying $1200/year for liability only.

Syracusa, so judgmental. We have no credit card debt, no car loans, and $25k in student loans. And yes we are struggling. Sorry it's hard to believe but our mortgage, taxes, and tuition is a lot. We drive two beaters and we aren't getting a new car for the new baby. Instead we just paid to save our dog instead of new car.

We had a lot of other bills crop up in home repairs EVERY year we've lived here, at about $6k/year. And we do go home to visit both internationally and across the country at least 1x/year. So yes if we cut that, we could live a lot more luxuriously.

I admit we save a lot so that's part of the struggle. But we refuse to adjust our lifestyle down to not save. To us that was a compromise of moving here. We would make do with less or else.

I PERSONALLY cannot wait to move away and live somewhere cheaper. I know our quality of life will drastically improve.

In Boston, average newborn care is $2200/month. Daycare is $1800/month. Outside the city? Say 20-30 miles it's still infant care is $1800-2k/month. After 1 year? Outside the city is $1500-1800/month. I know Boston daycare because I've priced out places recently as in right now! These are ridiculous prices, but most of our friends are paying it because they live in the city. Within walking distance to public transit, within the 95 ring to give you an idea of "city" living.

The areas a lot of people are naming, I would consider "living" in MA, but not in Boston. Boston definitely you'll be paying a lot more.

If your husband is working redding, live out there! Save a lot of money. Honestly? Who needs the city when you have kids?

I'm too tired to go out anymore and top it off with our sick dog? We have curtailed going out big time. I'm not saying we didn't before, but our lifestyle I think has changed already (personally).

I understand. Maybe I didn't realize how much student loans/tuition can weigh as I've never had any. Husband had 6000$ ib student loans at some point but I pushed for paying that off a while ago.
You also have the pet - I am truly sorry to hear about the poor dog's bad health.

Your mention of 6000$ in home repairs yearly scared the living lights out of me. This is exactly why I will only agree with buying new construction, if we ever have to buy in MA.

We will certainly live outside of Boston, I NEVER considered the city itself.

Good luck with the baby! Where would you like to move, ideally?

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by carpevacationum

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you thinking that here in the U.S. you need to pack up and move at the drop of a hat to a job that you could also lose at the drop of a hat because that is how the system is.

I've lived here in Massachusetts for almost 30 years. During that time we've had jobs and lost jobs. But we chose to stay and figure out a way to make it work.

Carpevacationum,

Have you ever considered that living in Boston allowed you to make such a choice in the first place? Losing a job in Boston may be an entirely different thing than losing a job in another part of the country, with much fewer opportunities in a given industry.

My husband is convinced that if he loses this new job, it would be way easier to find another one in the Boston area than it would have been to find something in Atlanta. There hasn't been any new opening in the Atlanta area for what he does - in years. According to him, his specialization is virtually extinct in Atlanta. What he does for a living tends to be concentrated in areas like New England, NY or California.

Do keep in mind that New England is the least mobile part of the United States, with many people being born there and staying put for their entire life. In this respect, I think New England is closer to the European model.

[syracusa]

Practically speaking, does everyone here agree that it would be FOOLISH for us to pay a 2200$/month rent given the info I posted in the beginning?

I mentioned to my husband the view that one of the posters here expressed (that we should look for much cheaper housing), and he just about lost it.

Anything under 2000 we were able to find for rent (very few options at this time of the year, btw), would be either unacceptably crammed or in a not-good school district or an unbearable commute to Reading.

I was just wondering how many would vote "foolish" anyway.

My husband believes we would be perfectly fine paying 2200 a month in rent and that 1800 a month left over at the end of the month as disposable income should be good enough.


Thanks a bunch.

[carpevacationum]

Syrcusa - I'm not trying to argue with you, but you seemed to have already made up your mind about how you have no choice but to move. I'm still sticking to the belief that we all have choices.

No...I have never considered that because we live in MA it may be easier to find work. The reason I have never considered that is because over the years we have lost and gained jobs and are willing to do whatever we have to do to stay here. That means if we can't find a job in a certain field, we look in another. That means if I had to waitress or work at McDonald's, we would. In other words...it's our choice to make it happen and work.

You don't "need" a 4 bedroom house. You want one. Fair enough. But keep in mind how people lived 20-30 years ago. Most people had small homes with a couple kids sharing rooms. And somehow we all survived.

Same thing is true for you whether you see it or not. If you want to move back to Europe, make it happen. Stop talking yourself into the belief that you simply can't. Yes you can. You may have to open yourself up to other lines of employment and a different way of life. But you can. You are the one stopping you from doing it...no one else is.

If you want to stay in Atlanta figure out how to do it. If that means your husband takes a lesser paying job in another field, so be it. At least you still have your job. Lower your monthly expenses and make it happen and don't say it can't be done. There are millions of people all over this country out of work making things work. Is it easy? No. But can it be done? Yes.

[LuxLiving]

My husband worked at the same place for 42 years - and we've always lived within 18 miles of where we started out married life together 27 years ago. I disagree that popping about is 'THE' American model.

My sister has lived in her home for 36 years. She's worked in her industry 33 years.

My brother while not the greatest stable worker as in he works a few years and then doesn't a few years, STILL lives within 5 miles of where we were born & raised. He's 60 this year.

My Dad lives in the home he built in 1969, which is right next door to the house we lived in before that. He's been in the same county his entire life, except when his parents went to California during the dust bowl years for about 3 years.

My Mom has moved a bunch of times and switched jobs a lot of times.

I'd say Mom is the exception not the norm in my family. And, I'd think you'd find similar if you dig around in many American families.

I think the job situation as you find it now in America with people losing jobs at the drop of a hat is also not the norm. We are experiencing a MAJOR blip.

My husband, one of the sweetest, serenest and most content people I know grew up in a probably 900-950 sq. foot house with 3 small bedrooms and 7 people. IMHO, unless one is physically handicapped, lots of space is a want, not a need.

Attitude goes a long way to making things palatable.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Like2Plan]

Originally Posted by syracusa

I cannot even begin to imagine what it would be like if we didn't have this stable refuge abroad and were doomed to sink in the American system, along with most other Americans who have no other choice.

In the meantime though, we will have to deal with the Boston area for a few years as we are not yet financially ready to return home. We don't like it but it is what it is.

syracusa,
This seems contradictory to me. If your stable refuge abroad was really a refuge it would also provide you with a stable source of income. Boston is providing you with an economic opportunity which your refuge does not.

I think you are going into this move with your eyes wide open. It looks like you have given it careful consideration. It is always difficult to estimate the costs in advance, but it seems to me that you have made some reasonable assumptions. What other option do you really have at this point?

You will find lots of different attitudes about moving here in the US. It is not something that goes with nationality. I think it is a combination of mindset and conditioning. My roots come from generations of farmers. My Dad made a decision to move away to seek out economic opportunity because there wasn't enough farm land to support more than one family in his generation. My cousins would not think of leaving the midwest. I on the other hand have made lots of voluntary moves (for promotions). I have stayed put for the last 23+ years, though I do think DH and I will move one more time when we find the ideal place to retire (we have been looking for it for over 25 years ).

Look, you know what kind of life style you want. You should pursue it (that's the American way ). It really stinks that you don't have the option to stay put where you are. Hopefully you will be able to bolster your position in Boston and make your retreat to your hearts desire economically possible as soon as possible.

[reallyprettyhappy]

Originally Posted by Like2Plan

I have stayed put for the last 23+ years, though I do think DH and I will move one more time when we find the ideal place to retire (we have been looking for it for over 25 years

Have you ever been to visit Spokane, Washington? If you don't mind snow in the winter, or if you have a little vacation place in AZ to run away to for a couple months a year, it seems to be the ideal place to retire. We just moved here and have been astounded by the number of retirees that we encounter here. It's just a slow-paced, beautiful place to live, pretty cheap cost of living, infinite outdoor activities to keep you busy. Just a really nice place to live. But don't tell anyone here that I told. They think it's the best-kept secret in the country.