not again

irmanator · #1 (**permalink**) 06-27-2009, 08:47 PM

I am so very frustrated. I told my daughter not to give her atm # online. She is 19 and has one w/visa logo. Last time she gave to some scam that was gonna get her all kinds of money for college. This time she is gonna get rich selling ads on the internet. After I straitened it out last time (she was a day short of 18) I asked her to get my opinion on what ever she was gonna give her card # for. oh she promised but today she says they only wanted the card # for the 2.95 shippping for the free cd then in the fine print it says 79.90 mo for services online

what should i do (btw she still lives at home because of college) Am i babying her by taking care of these issues or should i let her?? The reason i tend to straiten these out for her is because she tends to be a little confused by things then asks me later what to do and by then i don't know whats going on.

Joan.of.the.Arch · #2 (**permalink**) 06-28-2009, 07:15 AM

If this were my daughter, I think I would try to teach her careful reading and scepticism. I'd find a bunch of ads like that on the internet and also some in the regular snail mail. I would have her read over them with me, emphasizing how you have to read everything, every last word. Show her how to follow asterisks and footnotes. Show her where to find the fine print. Show her that sometimes the fineprint and details of the deal are not even spelled out in the initial come-on ad, but will follow later, after she puts in a first round application, such as with many credit card offers. Teach her that there are many people out there trying to get her money by making their deals looks ridiculously good when they are actually ridiculously bad. Teach her to be proud of herself for being able to spot the deceptive ads. When you read on this forum of rip-offs others have encountered, read her the posts so that she can see that the relative deception is widespread, that we are all targeted and must be on guard. Does your state attorney general publish a list of companies who've been prosecuted for illegal schemes taking people's money? Have a look at that with your daughter regularly so that she can get the sense that it is a real problem, not an unlikelihood. Tell her, too, how sometimes even people presenting themselves as charities will be rip-off artists.

While I was at it, I would teach her how to keep her name & number off of phone and mail solicitation lists. Tell her for example, how if she signs up for a lottery to win the SUV on display at the mall, or the six months of free gym use, she is adding her name to such lists...and that those lists get sold and resold. Teach her about opt-out lists for credit cards, for all junk mail, for phone solicitors (both the federal lists and any local lists). I would teach her to evaluate service packages for autos, and for new purchases. I'd teach her that contracts are generally unbreakable and that she needs to keep her word when she does sign them. But I'd also teach her about the few situations in which one can rescind a recently signed contract (such as within 24-72 hours of a door-to-door sale, even though right now those seem rare.) I'd talk to her about evaluating the source of merchandise sold on the street or in specialty shops that supposedly offer name brand items for tremendous discounts over the makers' own shops. (Such as purses or music recordings slashed to 10% or less than they sell for in any other store.).

Well I guess there are tons of things to teach her, but I'd start with the kinds of things that are already causing her problems, as in my first paragraph. I hope she will be not only cooperative, but interested. These are the kinds of things I talked to my child about "all the time" as he was growing up, so he learned about them gradually rather than having sort of a crash course. If we got a stupid time share come-on in the mail, we told him about it. If there was a dumb offer on the TV, we made mention of that. ...We of course also talked about really good offers that came along, emphasizing that even if we thought it was a good offer, we still had to check the details carefully and ask questions to verify.

maat55 · #3 (**permalink**) 06-28-2009, 07:27 AM

She has proven to be irresponsible with a credit card. I would make her pay all the charges. Teaching her what she did was wrong is fine, having her pay the consequences is important, as well.

Personally, I would not let her use my card for any reason. If you agree with a charge she wants, you should do it.

cicy33 · #4 (**permalink**) 06-30-2009, 07:05 PM

I agree, make her feel the consequences. If you don't she will never learn and when she is on her own she will not make it. I am assuming she is capable of understanding these things. You said she was confused. She needs to feel the sting of the consequence and then she will be more careful in the future. I do know on these sites can be sneaky. When I sign up for these things to get it really cheap or free I have a notebook that I write the number, the member number, the date to cancel. If I don't I would forget. Maybe she could do this to help her remember.

irmanator · #5 (**permalink**) 06-30-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maat55

She has proven to be irresponsible with a credit card. I would make her pay all the charges. Teaching her what she did was wrong is fine, having her pay the consequences is important, as well.

Personally, I would not let her use my card for any reason. If you agree with a charge she wants, you should do it.

you are speaking as if she is intentionally buying on credit and not paying, when what is happening is she is being conned. I don't think someone should go along with being conned just to learn a lesson about being conned. She was told she was just paying postage on a cd, then after giving her card number was THEN told they were gonna charge her 79/mo to advertise on google????????????????

maat55 · #6 (**permalink**) 06-30-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmanator

you are speaking as if she is intentionally buying on credit and not paying, when what is happening is she is being conned. I don't think someone should go along with being conned just to learn a lesson about being conned. She was told she was just paying postage on a cd, then after giving her card number was THEN told they were gonna charge her 79/mo to advertise on google????????????????

How she got conned is irrelevent. You told her not to use the card online and she did anyway. She should pay for the mess.

Your defense of her deviant action is not helpful to her learning experience.

irmanator · #7 (**permalink**) 07-01-2009, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maat55

How she got conned is irrelevent. You told her not to use the card online and she did anyway. She should pay for the mess.

Your defense of her deviant action is not helpful to her learning experience.

yea and that would get her an overdraft fee. which she can't pay right now. Not letting that happen.

irmanator · #8 (**permalink**) 07-01-2009, 04:10 AM

and she is not deviant just gullible

disneysteve · #9 (**permalink**) 07-01-2009, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmanator

you are speaking as if she is intentionally buying on credit and not paying, when what is happening is she is being conned.

Buying and not paying is not the only way to be irresponsible with a credit/debit card. Making purchases without understanding the terms to which you are agreeing is also a type of irresponsibility.

I've said many times that all of these money-making scams would disappear if people stopped being gullible and falling for them. Really, who believes that some Nigerian government official needs you to transfer millions of dollars and will split the money with you if you just send all of your banking info?

What should you do? I think that depends on the situation and only you really know the answer to that. If it happens a couple of times, come to her rescue and help her fix the problem, being sure to explain in detail how to avoid being scammed again. If it continues to happen, at some point, you need to let her suffer the consequences and pay her own money to clean up the mess she made. Also, after the first couple of times, I would definitely consider taking away her ability to get into this kind of trouble by closing her card.

boosami · #10 (**permalink**) 07-01-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disneysteve

What should you do? I think that depends on the situation and only you really know the answer to that. If it happens a couple of times, come to her rescue and help her fix the problem, being sure to explain in detail how to avoid being scammed again. If it continues to happen, at some point, you need to let her suffer the consequences and pay her own money to clean up the mess she made.

I completely agree with this. Though I don't have a daughter, I have a sister who is susceptible to this kind of thing. My parents bailed her out the first few times, and had discussions with her on how to avoid such problems in the future. However, she continued to fall for it again and again. Ultimately, my parents said she had no more bailouts left, and she would have to be careful or suffer the consequences without financial help from them. So far, she hasn't fallen for another one yet, (but once she came very very close). She avoided it because she was really careful and asked friends their opinion on it.

ValL · #11 (**permalink**) 07-01-2009, 04:13 PM

You definitely learn the most from your mistakes when you have to pay for them yourself.

cicy33 · #12 (**permalink**) 07-01-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disneysteve

Buying and not paying is not the only way to be irresponsible with a credit/debit card. Making purchases without understanding the terms to which you are agreeing is also a type of irresponsibility.

I've said many times that all of these money-making scams would disappear if people stopped being gullible and falling for them. Really, who believes that some Nigerian government official needs you to transfer millions of dollars and will split the money with you if you just send all of your banking info?

What should you do? I think that depends on the situation and only you really know the answer to that. If it happens a couple of times, come to her rescue and help her fix the problem, being sure to explain in detail how to avoid being scammed again. If it continues to happen, at some point, you need to let her suffer the consequences and pay her own money to clean up the mess she made. Also, after the first couple of times, I would definitely consider taking away her ability to get into this kind of trouble by closing her card.

Sadly, there are some people who are desperate. They think that just maybe its for real. Most of us know better. Back to the daughter. I understand one doesn't want her to have an over the limit fee but she has to learn on her own or she won't. When my daughter first got her checking account, she bounced a check. She thought the balance was correct even though she had checks that hadn't cleared yet. The first time or two I helped her but finally had to step back and let her learn it on her own. Losing that money taught her a valuable lesson she did not forget.

maat55 · #13 (**permalink**) 07-01-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmanator

yea and that would get her an overdraft fee. which she can't pay right now. Not letting that happen.

Yes, the overdraft would hurt, thats what learning is all about. Does the word enabler ring a bell.

Seeker · #14 (**permalink**) 07-02-2009, 01:09 AM

ATM cards were made into combination credit/debit & ATM cards and people allowed to use them the same.

Irmanator, you really need to stop coming to her rescue. She needs to learn to deal with the ins-and-outs of real life. She's always going to be "confused" if you always take over and handle and fix these things for her.

Yes, you are "babying her" these are your words.

Talk to your daughter and see if you and she can come to a mutual conclusion. You will take care of this problem this one last time.

The next time it happens, you will not help or advise her. She needs to find her own way and she needs to learn to deal with the fact that only she can protect her money; everyone else will want some part of that money. Only she can protect it because you're not always going to be there to make things right. She needs to grow up.

If the two of you decide that she is not realy to make these decisions and accept the ramifications of credit/debit card, I'd also recommend that you both go to the bank where this account is housed, and have the credit/debit card changed to a pure ATM card. She will need to agree to do everything by cash until she can understand the ramifications of her gullibility with online ordering and the cons or subscriptions inherent in these types of "deals."

RedThunderBird · #15 (**permalink**) 07-02-2009, 01:57 AM

I am afraid that not amount of advice would ever help her , until she learns on her own and that is not going to happens while you are alive , but think ---- the day you die , who would be there for her ? and who is going to teach her the responsibility to read the fine print , that in this world there are a lot of people who would gladly take not just her money , but even her life as well [ God forbid it ] who is going to be the one to take care of her problems if you are dead ? think ---- times fly , and by then it would be too late . the most beautiful gift parents can give their children is the is their wisdom , that they may live in a world , that was , is , and will always be in constant battle between good , and evil ------ knowing the difference is the most important lesson you could ever teach her while you are alive ; and that start with accepting responsibility for mistakes ------- that way she will not repeat again .

irmanator · #16 (**permalink**) 07-03-2009, 06:13 PM

update She called and cancelled the "subscription service" or whatever it was herself. All i did was yell at her for not listening to me and worry about her. And try to defend her honor on here lol. Anyhow I think it is over. Most of you were probably more right than I would like to admit, However that was her college tuition in that bank acct. and I would have been sick if she had been unable to attend because of this.

RedThunderBird · #17 (**permalink**) 07-04-2009, 05:50 AM

I imagine that at this moment you may feel bad about the decision you took ---- some day in the future you will be happy , that you did it ---- God bless all of you

AlligatorBaby · #18 (**permalink**) 07-10-2009, 06:46 PM

Should she have access to the money that is there to pay her tuition?

irmanator · #19 (**permalink**) 07-10-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlligatorBaby

Should she have access to the money that is there to pay her tuition?

why not it is hers. I didn't earn it, She did.

wincrasher · #20 (**permalink**) 07-13-2009, 01:50 PM

Well maybe this was enough of a scare to help her learn something.

People are more cautious when they KNOW there is a huge price to pay if they screw up. Your daugher will step up and become the person you want her to be if there is no safety net.

Some call it tough love. It's tougher on you than her.