Income of Pastor

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Here are two articles stating a pastor in New York making between $500-$600k/year. Yeah you read that right.

Base $250k/year
Housing $11.5/month = $138k/year
Private school for child
Maid
Equity allowance
Pension
Lifestyle allowance

Um, wow. If you tithe, do you know what your pastor makes? I do not go to church nor do I belong to a church. But I was wondering, since people tithe 10%, do you know where it's going? Is it going for ministry or to pay this type of salary?

By the way, I think this is an exceptionally high salary even in NYC. I know many people in NYC not making $500k+.

[disneysteve]

I don't tithe but I know exactly what our rabbi makes. It is stated in the temple budget and I've been on the board of trustees. It is not 500K but we're also not in NYC. I don't have the budget handy but I believe the total compensation package is in the 200K neighborhood.

[asmom]

Originally Posted by LivingAlmostLarge

Here are two articles stating a pastor in New York making between $500-$600k/year. Yeah you read that right.

Base $250k/year
Housing $11.5/month = $138k/year
Private school for child
Maid
Equity allowance
Pension
Lifestyle allowance

Um, wow. If you tithe, do you know what your pastor makes? I do not go to church nor do I belong to a church. But I was wondering, since people tithe 10%, do you know where it's going? Is it going for ministry or to pay this type of salary?

By the way, I think this is an exceptionally high salary even in NYC. I know many people in NYC not making $500k+.

There's a very popular megachurch not far from where I live. I don't know what the "pastor" makes because he refuses to release his financial records (red flag #1)but he drives a Bentley(#2), has a private plane(#3) and owns a couple of mansions(#4). As far as I can see, his church contributes absolutely nothing to our community. No senior citizen's center, no charter school, no scholarship fund, no homeless outreach, nothing.

He is a major proponent of the prosperity gospel. I have nothing against prosperity and I don't believe he has to be poor to preach the word of God but give me a break. Of particular note to me is that this particular preacher has a degree in business. That is very telling to me as it indicates that religion is his business, not his calling. If his sheep want to donate 10% of their income to keeping him wealthy, that's their choice but I'll have none of it.

[Inkstain82]

Pastors making that much money are few and far between.

My father has been a pastor since I was 8, so going on two decades now. he's never made more than about $30k/year + housing.

[project15]

That's outrageous. The pay philosophy of my church is one that has the pastor make similar to what the average member makes - I'm on the church budgeting committee. This comes out to be very similar to what I make. ($56k)

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by project15

The pay philosophy of my church is one that has the pastor make similar to what the average member makes

That's interesting. I've never heard of something like that before. How do you determine the income of all of your members? That certainly isn't information that I would share with my temple. It isn't any of their business to know how much I earn.

[maat55]

Right or wrong, I have a problem with pastors earning mega salaries through the church. I have no problem with them earning money from book sales, music etc. apart from the church.

I think it is the responsibility of the church boards like with corporations to limit excessive salaries. IMO, churches are not to be run like a profit business.

[maat55]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

That's interesting. I've never heard of something like that before. How do you determine the income of all of your members? That certainly isn't information that I would share with my temple. It isn't any of their business to know how much I earn.

This was an argument that split a small babtist church I attended many years ago. It is the business of the church(members) to know how much their pastor is earning. Churches are not supernatural entities that God makes perfect. The people have to manage its affairs.

[Kaybeau]

Originally Posted by LivingAlmostLarge

Here are two articles stating a pastor in New York making between $500-$600k/year. Yeah you read that right.

Base $250k/year
Housing $11.5/month = $138k/year
Private school for child
Maid
Equity allowance
Pension
Lifestyle allowance

Um, wow. If you tithe, do you know what your pastor makes? I do not go to church nor do I belong to a church. But I was wondering, since people tithe 10%, do you know where it's going? Is it going for ministry or to pay this type of salary?

By the way, I think this is an exceptionally high salary even in NYC. I know many people in NYC not making $500k+.

Well giving 10% is a good rule of thumb, and giving to a good charity that serves your personal spiritual focus is even better, now it can be any charity not just a church, and it can be charity that you control but that's a little advanced for some but if you are giving to a charity that you control and it's a right off now you have the best of both worlds HUMMM! what a concept, then if your making 10k, 20k, 30k or 500k a year at least your have more in your control now that's something I learned.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by maat55

Right or wrong, I have a problem with pastors earning mega salaries through the church. I have no problem with them earning money from book sales, music etc. apart from the church.

I think it is the responsibility of the church boards like with corporations to limit excessive salaries. IMO, churches are not to be run like a profit business.

I know that there are some fundamental differences between how churches and synagogues operate, so some of this may not apply here. Our synagogue operating budget for this year is just over $1.5 million and we are kind of a mid-size congregation (about 560 families). Being the religious leader of that many people is a big job and the person doing it warrants a certain level of compensation. I checked and our senior rabbi actually makes about 130K, less than I said earlier. So that is less than 10% of our budget. I don't think that is unreasonable at all.

Before criticizing a clergy person making a lot more, I'd want to know more about the congregation. If our annual budget was $5 million, I'm sure our rabbi would be making a lot more than 130K. Either that or we'd have 2 or 3 full time rabbis since we'd be a much bigger congregation and be more than one person could handle alone.

[maat55]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

I know that there are some fundamental differences between how churches and synagogues operate, so some of this may not apply here. Our synagogue operating budget for this year is just over $1.5 million and we are kind of a mid-size congregation (about 560 families). Being the religious leader of that many people is a big job and the person doing it warrants a certain level of compensation. I checked and our senior rabbi actually makes about 130K, less than I said earlier. So that is less than 10% of our budget. I don't think that is unreasonable at all.

Before criticizing a clergy person making a lot more, I'd want to know more about the congregation. If our annual budget was $5 million, I'm sure our rabbi would be making a lot more than 130K. Either that or we'd have 2 or 3 full time rabbis since we'd be a much bigger congregation and be more than one person could handle alone.

Obviously, one rabbi cannot serve unlimited church members. You could be in a church that has a yearly budget of 20 million dollars but that does not justify 4 times the salary. I know of no corporation that pays its CEO 10% of its revenues.(The lower the revenues the more reasonable 10% may be, but 10% at any level would be an outrage in many big churches)

I consider church revenues sacred and to be used wisely by those in charge. Well above average wages for the area or church would be out of line, IMO.

[PrincessPerky]

Our pastors salary (both of them) are on the books for all to see, all who bother to look that is. And yeah they make more than we do, but about average for the congregation.

As to contributing to the community, I think it is up to the members to direct the church torward outreach programs. Ours has several mission trips and collections, plus they host Cub scouts and Girl scouts, and now a Co-op. free VBS, music classes and the like. I think there is more that could be done, but for the average member they are content.

All churches are products of the members. If those members let them be a big old entertainment spot for Sunday morning, than that is what they are. If on the other hand the members encourage each other to reach out and do more then prolly will. If you are not happy with the way your church is acting, speak up and or find another.

[boosami]

In some Christian religions where they really follow the "Prosperity Gospel," the head of the church has to be rich because the closer you are to god, the more prosperity (including money) you should have. Under that assumption, a poor pastor would not be very godly, and thus not be a good selection as the head of the church. That might be a big part of it for some of these very high-paid leaders.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by PrincessPerky

As to contributing to the community, I think it is up to the members to direct the church torward outreach programs. Ours has several mission trips and collections, plus they host Cub scouts and Girl scouts, and now a Co-op. free VBS, music classes and the like. I think there is more that could be done, but for the average member they are content.

All churches are products of the members. If those members let them be a big old entertainment spot for Sunday morning, than that is what they are. If on the other hand the members encourage each other to reach out and do more then prolly will. If you are not happy with the way your church is acting, speak up and or find another.

I totally agree. Again, I realize Judaism and Christianity function differently in some regards, but in a synagogue, the rabbi is an employee of the congregation. We hire the rabbi. We tell him what his duties are (and aren't). He works for us. He can certainly suggest new programs and activities, but it is up to the congregation, specifically the Board of Trustees, to approve and implement them. The rabbi may have all kinds of ideas about outreach, social action, community service and other charitable activies, but if the congregation doesn't approve, it doesn't happen.

[wnlbutterfly]

And as far as taxes go, most of what they make isn't taxable.

[Inkstain82]

Originally Posted by wnlbutterfly

And as far as taxes go, most of what they make isn't taxable.

Hmm. My dad has been overpaying for years, then. He's a minister of a church of about 100 people, and is considered self-employed for tax purposes (which is weird, he doesn't own the church and is an at-will employee of the church board).

[boosami]

Originally Posted by Inkstain82

Hmm. My dad has been overpaying for years, then. He's a minister of a church of about 100 people, and is considered self-employed for tax purposes (which is weird, he doesn't own the church and is an at-will employee of the church board).

It's not uncommon to have an employer and still have to pay self-employment taxes. I did that for years as an "independent" IT consultant. I was technically employed at a real company, received benefits like insurance from them, but was paid hourly with no tax withholding. I filed my taxes on Schedule C as self-employed.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

interesting that there is a wide range of what pastors make on the board.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by LivingAlmostLarge

interesting that there is a wide range of what pastors make on the board.

Not really a surprise. There is a wide range of what any occupation makes. It depends on various factors like geography, size of company, age/experience level of employee, etc.

As I said, our current senior rabbi makes about 130K. The rabbi he replaced, who had been with us for over 40 years, was making quite a bit more than that when he retired. And I'm sure if you look at a congregation our size in a lower COLA, their rabbi probably makes less than ours. Or look at a higher COLA area, like NYC, and they probably make a fair amount more than ours.

[kork13]

Originally Posted by LivingAlmostLarge

interesting that there is a wide range of what pastors make on the board.

Just to throw in at the bottom of the barrel, my church's "pastors" (not the term we use, but close enough) is an unpaid job... it's completely voluntary, and also changes every few (3-5) years. Personally, I really like that -- that my church leaders are just like the members, holding down a steady job, and at the same time giving of his time/efforts for the church membership. Lead by example, no? But, that's just my own view, and I respect the fact that many churches choose to operate differently, whether by doctrine or otherwise.