Am I wrong to ask for rent?

[isthisused]

Six months ago my wife and I loaned her 24 year old daughter and her fiancé $3,500 to move across country and live with us until they could get jobs and get on their feet. The first month we asked for no money to cover their living in our home. After one month I offered that they should live with us and just pay enough to cover what it cost us to have them here, so they could pay us back the loan quickly. He offered $200 per month (for two adults and a 5 year old!.) the job he got paid $17.00 per hour but I accepted with the condition that it be raised to $300 when she got a job. In the next four months he lost his good job and worked at two other jobs briefly and was not called back. He knocked up my wife’s daughter, and now has a job cooking for $10.00 per hour. We were paid the money they owed us from their tax returns. But they are nowhere close to making enough money to get their own place. So here is the question am I being unfair at this point to ask them two start paying $200 rent in addition to the $300 they are paying for food and utilities? $500 for room, food and utilities for two adults and a child doest seem to be unfair. If it was just my wife’s daughter and my granddaughter, I wouldn’t ask for it but this guy has been a terrible roommate.

[Fizgig]

This is just my opinion and I'm somewhat on the fence.

Yes it is fair, but I don't think it would be kind.

You are doing them a tremendous service by helping them during a difficult time. Maybe I'm more forgiving towards them because they DID pay you back promptly for the moving expenses, and they are contributing toward their expenses. Instead of trying to increase the rent, maybe you can find ways to make it easier for them to ultimately move out. Offering childcare once they're both working might be one option, if you're able and willing.

You are under no obligation to help them with a place to live or monetarily, but it sounds like they need it and you've been very kind to them. Since they don't seem to be abusing it (except for your bad roommate comment - maybe that's a separate issue that can be worked on), I'd opt on the side of kindness unless you and your wife really need that extra $200.

[snafu]

Your situation outlines several issues. You seem to like your wife's daughter and her child but have a low opinion of her boyfriend/fiance.
Your outline suggests you loaned money [$3,500] and generously gave an open ended offer of room and board for cost which you declare is $300. The loan has been paid in full and costs covered.

Do you want to continue as landlord indefinitely and make a profit? Do you want that family to move out? Do you find adding all these people & their stuff causes space/privacy crunches? Do you want to use money to somehow punish wife's daughter & guy for 'knock-up' and job losses?

How does your wife want to resolve this situation? Will your actions cause problems between you and wife? Does she see any hope for success for her daughter, grandchild & baby to come? How does her daughter contribute to the household? Does the bf/fiance contribute anything non financial? Do these adults add to the work or help minimize it?

In our city jobs are being eliminated at an alarming rate! What is the job market like there? Would they need rent + damage deposit + set-up $$$? Are they eligible/can they get help from social services? So many parents have their adult children return home. How long do parents have to support them?

[wnlbutterfly]

I was going to say "it depends on how soon you want them to move out". The more money you ask from them, the longer it will take for them to get enough money saved to move. If they aren't saving, then maybe suggesting they pay a little more and you set it aside for a deposit for them.

[isthisused]

Its not that we need the money, its more that they aren’t doing much to try and get on their feet. While he was unemployed he would sleep in until noon almost every day despite repeated admonishments from my wife. He spent much of the time he should have been job searching playing video game. He would wake up my wife (she even wore ear plugs) frequently because he speaks and laughs loud while we are asleep. Their dog digs holes in our yard and has way to much energy and is too big for our small house yet they don’t take it for walks despite our repeated pleading to do so. He has been rude to our 13-year-old daughter even though she gave up her room to them. my wife has a child care business in our home and she had to repeatedly tell him not to smoke where the children or their parents could see him yet has caught him repeatedly smoking in front of the glass door in clear view of everyone. He wore my good jeans to work and ruined them. My wife was at her wits end about a month ago and I sat them down and had a long talk about what they needed to differently and that they needed to make every effort to get their own place. We have watched them spend money on things they didn’t need rather than save it for a place. So I have come to the conclusion that if they are going to be here, we might as well get something for it.

[isthisused]

Originally Posted by wnlbutterfly

I was going to say "it depends on how soon you want them to move out". The more money you ask from them, the longer it will take for them to get enough money saved to move. If they aren't saving, then maybe suggesting they pay a little more and you set it aside for a deposit for them.

They had $400 saved a month ago and just told me that they only have $400 saved now!
I have considered setting the money aside to use as an emergency fund for them. Yes he is the one we mostly have the problem with. They were doing very little around the house until I explained to them that we expected them to pitch in.

[Fizgig]

Sounds like this isn't a money problem at all, but a family problem. I'm sorry they're disrespecting your home and interfering with your life so much - that's no way to live. This might be very hard and you'll have to come to a consensus with your wife, but if they're not listening and changing behavior, you may have to tell them to leave. Not an easy problem at all, but $200 won't compensate you for their (his, it sounds like) lack of courtesy.

[swanson719]

First, they aren't doing more to move out because it's more convenient, and cheaper, to stay where they are. The more inconvenient it becomes, the sooner they will leave.

I think the best thing to do in this situation, is find a small apartment that meets their needs - like a 1 BR, 1 BA w/ an office to use as a small BR for the 5 yr old. Make the deposit on it for them, and then let them pay for that. It would almost be worth your while given the situation to help them with rent a little each month and ween them off the help over a few months as opposed to live in a soap opera. Or if your DW's daughter would think about it, it might be time to find a better guy. But that's a different battle for a different day, and something I would highly advise you never be around if your wife mentions it to your daughter.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

I say this as someone who has three times taken in family and would do it again at the drop of a hat: Either kick him out, kick the two of them out and keep the grandchild, kick them all out, or keep insisting on them showing more responsibility while upping their rent as high as you want. They (evidently especially the boyfriend) are not being good family members or good guests. It highly concerns me that he is threatening your very livelihood through his smoking near the daycare children. You also should protect your 13 year old child from the meanness of this full grown adult who is benefiting from her sacrifice.

Taking in family does not have to be like that. No one my DH and I took in acted that way. They worked their butts off to find work and they helped around the house and yard without having to be asked. They were pleasant company, and even though one was a smoker, she always went outside to smoke, without my ever having to request it. They were kind to my child and respected our privacy....I did not charge any rent, but they were gone lickety-split upon the first paycheck, and not because I insisted, but because they were motivated. It took my brother six months after moving in to find a job and that was after he had already been out of work and living off savings for a prior 8 months. It would have been hell if he'd acted like your houseguests/renters. Actually, even with good guests it can be a drag.

Please preserve your home as a safe refuge for yourself, your wife and your daughter. What else is more important than home as a safe refuge? It can be that too, for her grown daughter and grandchild, if the daughter and her BF will make it so. But they are not doing that, are they?

BTW, most pregnant women can work, even if it is with some discomfort, so I think your step daughter should probably be seeking a job in this situation, too. Maybe she is helping with your wife's daycare business, but I suspect it would be better if she could find paying work independent of her mom, so that she can support her family.

[isthisused]

Originally Posted by Fizgig

Sounds like this isn't a money problem at all, but a family problem. I'm sorry they're disrespecting your home and interfering with your life so much - that's no way to live. This might be very hard and you'll have to come to a consensus with your wife, but if they're not listening and changing behavior, you may have to tell them to leave. Not an easy problem at all, but $200 won't compensate you for their (his, it sounds like) lack of courtesy.

I agree this is more of a family issue and I considered asking this in another forum because of that, but then I considered how often a family or emotional issue can have effects on our financial picture.

[isthisused]

Originally Posted by swanson719

First, they aren't doing more to move out because it's more convenient, and cheaper, to stay where they are. The more inconvenient it becomes, the sooner they will leave.

I think the best thing to do in this situation, is find a small apartment that meets their needs - like a 1 BR, 1 BA w/ an office to use as a small BR for the 5 yr old. Make the deposit on it for them, and then let them pay for that. It would almost be worth your while given the situation to help them with rent a little each month and ween them off the help over a few months as opposed to live in a soap opera. Or if your DW's daughter would think about it, it might be time to find a better guy. But that's a different battle for a different day, and something I would highly advise you never be around if your wife mentions it to your daughter.

You sort of bring up the other reason Im thinking of charging rent. It’s a way of weaning them off the help. It seems as though the cheaper it is for them the less drive they have to improve their situation. After loosing his first job he was convinced that he couldn’t get unemployment. I told him repeatedly to call KY and ask a person from the unemployment office and I told him not to believe the first person who told him he couldn’t get benefits. After six weeks of repeatedly hinting that he should call them I did it myself! He was eligible! He got a couple of weeks bennis before he got his job. $1000.00 down the drain!

[isthisused]

Originally Posted by Joan.of.the.Arch

I say this as someone who has three times taken in family and would do it again at the drop of a hat: Either kick him out, kick the two of them out and keep the grandchild, kick them all out, or keep insisting on them showing more responsibility while upping their rent as high as you want. They (evidently especially the boyfriend) are not being good family members or good guests. It highly concerns me that he is threatening your very livelihood through his smoking near the daycare children. You also should protect your 13 year old child from the meanness of this full grown adult who is benefiting from her sacrifice.

Taking in family does not have to be like that. No one my DH and I took in acted that way. They worked their butts off to find work and they helped around the house and yard without having to be asked. They were pleasant company, and even though one was a smoker, she always went outside to smoke, without my ever having to request it. They were kind to my child and respected our privacy....I did not charge any rent, but they were gone lickety-split upon the first paycheck, and not because I insisted, but because they were motivated. It took my brother six months after moving in to find a job and that was after he had already been out of work and living off savings for a prior 8 months. It would have been hell if he'd acted like your houseguests/renters. Actually, even with good guests it can be a drag.

Please preserve your home as a safe refuge for yourself, your wife and your daughter. What else is more important than home as a safe refuge? It can be that too, for her grown daughter and grandchild, if the daughter and her BF will make it so. But they are not doing that, are they?

BTW, most pregnant women can work, even if it is with some discomfort, so I think your step daughter should probably be seeking a job in this situation, too. Maybe she is helping with your wife's daycare business, but I suspect it would be better if she could find paying work independent of her mom, so that she can support her family.

We would have made him leave already but he has no family or close friends around here. They moved here at our request because we missed our Daughter and granddaughter terribly and they were living in an unsafe nationhood in KY. He has really improved since I sat them down and had the long talk. He woke my wife up one more time and I banned him from the living room while we are in bed, she hasn’t been woken up since. Im considering offering to pay him to paint my house so that they can earn back the money they pay and because she is pregnant, most of the burden would fall on him.

[snafu]

It sounds like you're parenting teens rather than 2 adults who have created their own family. Would it be a diservice to continue to facilitate their immature behavior? My experiences in helping-out mirrors JOArch. Would you and your wife be willing to discuss those views.

[Confetti]

If they can't afford the humans in their family, why do they have a dog? Maybe the dog could go to a good home/shelter and they could put what they spend on the dog into savings.

[swaymonae]

It is absolutely fair!

I wish I paid that much for rent.

PS.. I moved out when I was 16, I got into some trouble around 18 and my mom wouldn't let me move in because my step-dad didn't want me there. She made me figure things out on my own.. at the time, it was difficult, but I am 24 and fully capable of taking care of myself, and that is important. Adults need to learn how to do just that-- especially if they have a kid.

And, sorry, but if the dad can't keep a job, that is just immature and irresponsible.. they need a reality check!

[PrincessPerky]

It is a family situation not a monetary one..Dude sounds like he is rather immature...

You offered the daughter and granddaughter a place to stay..no obligation to the dog. Depending on how old the granddaughter is..have her walk the dog.

Also don't ask them to 'pitch in' ask them to do specific items..clear the table, sweep the floor..many folk have no idea what they aught to be doing, especially if failure to act means the chore is taken care of, you would be surprised at how oblivious folk can be to housework.

'don't smoke around the kids' and "you may smoke here or here", are two different things....again folk can be oblivious, be specific with your complaints.

Even though they are of adult age, they are not acting like adults, so treat them a bit more like teens. IE explain what they did wrong, set limits, boundaries ect. Forgive transgressions, but explain what is wrong, don't assume he knows. (I can't tell you how many adults lie, cheat, are rude, and don't know it is wrong!)

But of course do be open to their adult tendencies should they arise.

[myrdale]

Originally Posted by isthisused

He knocked up my wife’s daughter, and now has a job cooking for $10.00 per hour.... If it was just my wife’s daughter and my granddaughter, I wouldn’t ask for it but this guy has been a terrible roommate.

First, it takes two to tango, he didn't "knock up" your wife's daughter, she got herself "knocked up".

Second, if your going to stand on the position that she is your wifes daughter, then the child is also your wife's granddaughter, not yours.

Third, when this gentleman married your wife's daughter, like it or not he became family, even more so now that he has fathered a child with her. You point out a whole list of his sins, from sleeping late to ruining your jeans. You got a son in law now and you just got to deal with some of it.

Fourth, what has your wife's daughter been doing this entire time? You place all the blame on him but has she actually done anything at all herself? The over all point is it ain't necessarly just him, it is her too. The 5 year old is not an excuse to not work, she could work nights and he could work days or vise versa.

Now, for the original subject, I would not charge rent for a short term stay. I think them paying living expenses is acceptable. HOWEVER I would lay down the rules of the house. If he does not want to live within those boundries he can get his butt out. After they'd lived with you for 6 months, I might change my tune on the rent situation.

I do like the suggestion of being a little more pro-active on finding them an appartment. No it really shouldnt be your responsibility to do this type of leg work, but it is in your favor to get the lot of them out of your house and on their own as quickly as possible.

Lastly, the child is 5, how did they survive for the past 5 years? Did they live with his folks?

[tripods68]

Keep everyone else home and secured while kicking him out the door. That's probably the only solution while he tries to secure a good paying job.

But in fairness, you did asked them to moved in. So you are not blameless in this whole mess either. Now its hasn't worked out the way you expected it, its now became the "boyfriend's fault". That's way too convenient. You either let them stay home (rent free) until their financial condition improved while enjoying your grandkids company, OR kick them out all at once because the boyfriend is irresponsible. Take your pick.


I'm a bit harsh on my comment because I was raised in a big family where "help" is always around.