Another murder-suicide over financial troubles in CA

[Russell]

Seven dead in family murder-suicide after parents lose their jobs - KSBY-TV- msnbc.com

It's just too sad, especially when kids are involved

So what are someone's options if both earners (or single) become jobless AND can't find a job for an extended period of time AND have a mortgage to pay? For me it would be:

- Reduce spending as much as possible
- use the unemployment money
- use the emergency savings fund AND see if I can do any kind of part time or contract work of any kind
- use any other longer term savings funds
- tap into retirement funds ROTH then 401k AND look into selling the house - which will be a short sale in my case

[mommyof4]

I saw this, too. This is so sad.

[pearlieq]

I also saw this and thought it was awful.

I wouldn't go so far as to blame financial troubles for it though. Millions of people fall on hard times every year without killing anyone. I'm sure the added stress wasn't helpful, but the guy was obviously very sick.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by pearlieq

I wouldn't go so far as to blame financial troubles for it though.

the guy was obviously very sick.

Exactly. I hate the way the media portrays cases like this as if one single event triggered it. No normal human being loses his job and, as a result, decides it would be a good idea to murder his entire family and himself. People who do this have serious mental illness. Often, later stories reveal that the person had a long history of depression or other mental disease, drug and alcohol abuse, etc. A regular person doesn't just wake up one day and decide to kill themselves and everyone around them.

[NeedaDollar]

The letter the guy sent to the local news station seemed like him and his wife decided to kill themselves and the children. They didn't want the children to go to strangers, so they killed the kids too.

[Russell]

Totally agree that a normal person wouldn't do that.

But from the financial position, which is why I started the thread, what would a normal person do? what are your options if you have no income, a family and a mortgage to pay?

[disneysteve]

We had the discussion before about folks who "can't" find a job for an extended period. I'm honestly not sure what that means. I can certainly understand not being able to find a job comparable to the one you had, but no job at all I have trouble believing in most cases. I know times are tough and some areas are in much worse financial shape than others, so that can be a factor. Getting a job might mean having one parent leave the area to find work and rent a cheap room somewhere. During med school, I once lived for a month in a really tacky boarding house near the hospital where I was working. It had a shared bathroom down the hall, a tiny shared kitchenette. I didn't have a fridge or freezer. But I did what I had to do.

You cut your expenses to the bare minimum (we had a thread about that recently, too). Then you apply for every job you possibly can. You also start looking for ways to earn money on your own. Around here, that might mean shoveling snow, getting a paper route, delivering phone books or pizzas. This time of year, the local IRS processing center hires a slew of seasonal workers to do data entry of tax returns. If you can afford a computer and internet access, sell stuff on ebay. There are lots of things that can be bought and resold for a profit. Even a small profit is better than nothing when every penny counts. You start by selling everything that isn't nailed down in your house. He could have started by selling the gun. I'm sure that was worth a few bucks.

Of course, you also collect unemployment and apply for any other government aid such as Medicaid, food stamps and such. You go to the food pantry and soup kitchens to stretch your food dollars. You talk to your clergy person and see if any aid is available through your religious institution. You talk to friends and family and see if anyone can do anything to help.

Surely, there are loads of better options than killing yourself and your entire family, even if it means losing your home.

[Russell]

Those are some good ideas.

In addition, I think the govt should waive any tax and other penalties should people have to use their 401ks to save their houses. To me the most important things will be providing food and shelter for my family. The rest can wait.

[red92s]

Originally Posted by Russell

Those are some good ideas.

In addition, I think the govt should waive any tax and other penalties should people have to use their 401ks to save their houses. To me the most important things will be providing food and shelter for my family. The rest can wait.

Good luck enforcing that uniformly. There are people that risk losing their home because of a job loss (or two), and there are people that risk losing their homes because they are leasing a $600 SUV.

[Pitman]

I'm saddened by this news.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by red92s

Good luck enforcing that uniformly. There are people that risk losing their home because of a job loss (or two), and there are people that risk losing their homes because they are leasing a $600 SUV.

There are also lots of people losing their homes because they bought houses they couldn't possibly afford with "creative" financing and 0% down without a chance in hell of making the payments once the rate adjusted or the principal payments started. Allowing those folks to raid their 401k accounts to save the house would be taking a really bad situation and making it even worse. Then they'd not only have a house they couldn't afford but they'd have no retirement fund either.

[Ima saver]

I have to agree with Steve.

[Russell]

I actually disagree, there are those who can afford their houses just fine provided they have jobs. Since so many people have lost jobs, I personally know those who made well into 6 figure yearly salary are now worried about losing their houses. Sure there's the savings but they can only go so far.

Those that live in places where the property's not as expensive may have a different view but here unless you live in the slums the houses here start upwards of $450k

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Russell

I actually disagree, there are those who can afford their houses just fine provided they have jobs.

I'm not disagreeing with that. I just think if they change the 401k withdrawal rules, they need to do it very carefully and specifically, not just say anybody who wants to can drain their 401k if they need the money to save their home. The reality is that a lot of homes shouldn't be saved because the people in them have no business owning them.

During the height of the real estate bubble and the sub-prime mess, people were buying homes for 5 or 6 times their income or more, putting down nothing and taking out ARMs or interest-only loans. That was just a disaster waiting to happen. They may have been barely treading water while they had their jobs and sank like rocks once they lost them. Or they were eking out the payments until the rate adjusted and then they couldn't make it anymore. I think in those situations, allowing them to raid their savings would add insult to injury.

[Goldy1]

I assume folks who have to raid their 401K accounts to live will evenually end up livign at least in part off the government's coffers so why not give them a break if they use thier 401K. I agree with paying income tax on it since it was pretaxed, but why the penalty.

[markrp]

That is such a bad news and I am not sure why people looses their hopes so quick.

[Seeker]

The cnn version of the story has a bit more info.... whether true or not, I don't know, but the husband :

claimed the couple was being investigated for "misrepresentation of our employment to an outside agency for the benefit to ourselves's (sic), childcare." He said the initial interview was held on December 19, and when he reported for work on December 23, "I was told by my administrator ... that 'You should not even have bothered to come to work today. You should have blown your brains out.'"

Wilmington is not the safest area in LA County either; there are houses there that people wouldn't touch because of gangs in the area.

9.3% unemployment in LA County. Try 22% unemployment in Imperial County.

What's our world coming to?

[Russell]

Steve, I completely agree with you on that. So many people rushed to buy homes is what created the unrealistic surge in the realestate market, whether they could afford the houses or not.

Well I feel that since we're handing out billions of dollars to the banks and corporations why can't we let the Joe Blow take his own 401k money to save his house. A house he might have already invested a lot of his money in? I'm just not sure all the money we're spending is helping individuals with their financial issues due to the economical conditions.

Sure there are those that even in good economy don't have their act together but I feel bad for those who are just caught up in this turmoil. Any one of us could find ourselves in this situation where we have no income or income not large enough to afford the mortgages+the common family expenses. Sure your savings will help but for how long? If you have a $2000 mortgage and $1500 monthly expense you'll need $42k for one year.