Do you guys think college is always worth it?

[Goldy1]

My husband recently got laid off and thru the state of MI, and there is a program called No worker Left BEhind he may qualify for. Basically, it is a grant that pays you to go to college up to 2 years worth up to $10,000 and you have 4 years to use it. There is an extensive list of in demand occupations you must chose.
It sounds great;pays for book, fees etc.
MY husband will find out next week if he is approved.
His current degree is in cad cam and it has totally paid off. He has been gainfully employed for about 15 years making good money just from going to school one year to get the degree for cad cam.

I might also get the grant. I have a bacholer's degree in elem educatation since 2000. It was a total waste of 5 years of my life, and the ONLY regret I basicaly ever had. I went to school full time for 5 years, graduated with a 3.5, excellent reviews for internship, and NEVER even got a teaching interview b/c it is rare to get a job in MI in teaching.
I feel great about being "educated" as a person blah blah blah and thank God my parents foot my whole bill, but I am just living proof education does not always pay off.
Now I get constant pressure from my mom to go to nursing school or some other strenuous full time program in medical field, and I have a baby on the way
I actually started out college as a pre nursing student and took a bunch of science classes required just to APPLY for nursing program, and then I changed my major to teaching. So if I go into a medical program. I will have to retake those science classes again b/c they need to be taken less than 5 years ago. No way even for free.
If I get the schooling, I will use it for something though.

Just ranting but next time my mom mentions nursing to me, I am not even going to repeat myself why I can't do it again.

[myrdale]

Is college always worth it? No, not if your a professional athlete, a movie star, independently wealthy or have a terminal disease. I think it's a safe bet though that you, much like myself do not fall into any of the above catagories.

I am guessing your husband is about 35. With a minimum of 30 years to work ahead of him, I would say furthering his education is more then worth it. Assuming he can take evening classes and still work.

Of course no one can tell what the future will bring. But besides picking a job he has a passion for, I would want one that will be indemand for the next several years.

"but I am just living proof education does not always pay off." I am sorry, but No. Getting educated in a field you have no interest in persuing a career in does not pay off. I have to believe that literally hundreds if not thousands of teachers have been hired over the past 8 years in MI. I'd be knocking on every school door for 50 miles radius till my knuckles were bloodied.

You are a wife with a child on the way. If you are truely under "constant pressure" from you mom to go to nursing school, you need to put on your big girl pants and tell her to lay off. It is your life not hers.

Now, that bit about your mother and the education required aside: Are you truely interested in being a nurse?

While the RN program may be strenuous, are you could go for an LPN. I am not saying it is easy. There is a big difference in pay between them but it gets you into a professional field that you are passionate about.

Hope that helps.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Goldy1

I have a bacholer's degree in elem educatation since 2000. It was a total waste of 5 years of my life

it is rare to get a job in MI in teaching.

What do you mean that it is rare to get a teaching job in MI? Don't they have schools there? How do they get teachers other than hiring them from those who apply for jobs? Or do you mean that you can't get a job with just a bachelor's degree? I know many places you need a master's degree to get a teaching job.

As for your husband, I would certainly not pass up free education. That would be foolish, IMO. It can only help in the future.

[Goldy1]

you made great points esp about being interested in the job, and the decades of work ahead. I know you mean well too, but there are very few job opening in elem teaching in MI and many other states. When I got out in 2001, the situation was over 1,000 applying for one elementary opening, and it is worse now. There have been newspaper articles stating there is a teacher shortage, but it is relative ot where you live. There are some openings, but we also graduate too many teachers in part due to many teacher programs in MI and they are not competitive like nursing with select admisison. It is "open" to any shmo with a C average.

Besides I worked as a teacher's assistant for 2 years, and I don't really think teaching is for me anymore even tho I love kids.

I've worked as a trained on the job opthalmology assistant and optician for years. The pay stinks(couldn't put a kid in daycare and do it), but the job is alright.

[pearlieq]

If it's free or very cheap I wouldn't turn it down. I can think of many cases where a traditional college education may be of limited value. I don't think there's much point to getting a degree just to have one--there needs to be a decent ROI.

For most skilled craftsmen and tradesmen, I think you could make a strong argument against college.

[Goldy1]

I didn't want to turn this thread into a debate on teacher shortages (this is a finance chat)so I will stop that here, but if you are interested, here is a link to prove I am not in some altered universe where I just think I am unemployable as a teacher in MI. I posted a link of a newspaper article I read stating we need teachers in MI, and the responses from MI teacher candidates state the article is insanely inaccurate.
POST: read this article on "teacher shortage" from TODAY not 1972

[Seeker]

To attend college (or not) should always be a personal decision.

Externals (environment, time, professions, competition for jobs, $'s) will have an effect on the "worthiness" of any pursuit. But internals (ie. you, and how you feel about the "regret" your education has been, understandably since landing a job in Michigan means competing with thousands of other grads) also has an effect on the "worthiness" of a pursuit.

College can be the best thing in the world for a person, depending on that person. Or it can be the worse thing. And that's said regardless of "worth."

---

Goldy1, you need to discuss with your husband what you might want to do in the future. None of our opinions should really matter (by the way, Mom's shouldn't matter either).

If you go to college and pursue Nursing (if you don't really want to do so), then you are wasting your time and the state's money.

If "success" in a job is your measure of "worthiness" of an education, then research jobs available in your area (if you plan on staying in MI) that you'd like to perform, and pursue the education that would gain you that employment.

[sakigt]

Depends on if youre getting an education with a job it can be applied to as well as how much you are paying for it.

I make $25k a year now and after YEARS of work Im finally starting Pharmacy school in August...my dream since I was a kid. Total cost including opportunity costs = $200k Time to recoup this cost with salary increase...just over 3 years. Totally worth it.

Chasing the big money career is going to leave you discouraged and broke. Just do what you love.

[jIM_Ohio]

College is definitely worth the party. IMO you not teaching is not because of where you live, but more by the limitations we impose on ourselves (won't work for $X salary or won't travel 60 miles to work or won't do this or will not do that to get a given job). To suggest a teacher cannot find a job to me is almost laughable- every teacher I know finds a job every school year.

Your husband has a huge opportunity, IMO. CAD/CAM/CAE is booming (especially CAE) and my company targets 25% growth from our CAE product line (5% from CAD and CAM).

He can probably extend his cad cam knowledge with a little work or research. Can you move? How close is he to a degree in engineering or IT? If he has experience with CAD, and a 2 year degree in engineering or IT, I could probably point you to where job opportunities are consulting (that is what my company does). Plenty of people I work with have no degree or a two year degree. The ones without a degree had around 20-30 years of experience before joining my company (we write the CAD/CAM software).

I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering and my specialty is CAD/CAM. I went to college in Flint. I now do more PDM than CAD, but I have 2 CAD packages installed on my PC at work.

What systems is he familiar with? Is he looking to get another job or to teach?

I might have been his instructor at some point if he worked for Ford or a supplier. I know I-DEAS, UG and NX... and if he knows any of those systems getting a job now is not tough (I am e-mailed job opportunities for those softwares every month from head hunters). Key is to look outside of Michigan.

I would look to make sure he has a degree (2 year) and getting a new job in the field should be "smooth" provided he looks outside of Michigan. If his degree is IT or engineering, the CAD knowledge he has could give him a new career, if his degree is in business he could sell the software he used to operate- that is highly competitive (and highly paid).

[MoneyTrev]

College is worth it in my opinion even though i'm not at the age group, seeing all my aunts, uncles, parents go through college vs not gone through college is a huge difference.

Although my grandparents didn't go through college and only finish high school, they were successful because they had luck on their side.

[Goldy1]

Thanks Jim. My dh is 37. He was at his last auto supplier employer for 8 years (in cad cam f/t since 1992 however)with not one day of layoff. They actually made the plastic parts so I guess that kept money flowing a while. He primarily worked with Solidworks. He only has a one year certificate in cad cam. He said he went to school like a full time job for 12 months to get it in his early 20's. No engineering or IT work.

I don't understand a lot about cad cam but he claims to be fast with his work(I guess some guys are slower doing it) and he claims to "really like my job doing the work"
I don't know much about cad cam but from listening to him talk, he said he was invloved in many aspects of the design process and his work was challenging ie. cutting stuff with very very small measurements.

I have seen a few cad cam type jobs listed in the newspaper. He feels unsure if he should apply for jobs that are not specifically using the same software he used recently. For instance, if it says 3 years of CAtia preferred, he feels like he is unsure if they are willing to train him on that if he only used that a year many years ago and the newer versions are out.
Jim, do you think there are opportunities in cad cam in Mi's future? He has this idea he might get a cad cam job in MI again "outside" of automotive or in a more diversified place. He had an opportunity to go to another employer a few months before his lay off but he one of those "loyal to my employer" guys but beats being a job hopper.
The lack of raises for 8 years at his last job indicate there are possibly job security issues in cad cam.
I am unsure if he should use his possible education allowance on more cad cam. lol

[Goldy1]

ps Jim
I just peeked at my dh's resume. It looks like he has used moldworks, surfcam velocity, cadkey 99 but mainly and for the longest time Solidworks.

[zetta]

I have seen a few cad cam type jobs listed in the newspaper. He feels unsure if he should apply for jobs that are not specifically using the same software he used recently. For instance, if it says 3 years of CAtia preferred, he feels like he is unsure if they are willing to train him on that say if he only used that a year many years ago.

He should at least apply -- worst case he doesn't get an interview, but if he does he might discover that they are willing to train him on the new software. And they'll be aware of him if an opening related to his current skills comes up.

Two years training in another "in demand" field (if one appeals to him) would be good insurance policy for times when cam jobs are hard to come by.

For yourself, are you looking forward to spending some time home full time with your baby? Do you see yourself home permanently, or would you like to work once your child(ren) are in elementary school? Is the schooling opportunity something you'd have to do right now, or could you start it part-time in a year or so? I have a friend who is taking classes part-time and will get her degree about the time that her youngest starts kindergarten.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by MoneyTrev

Although my grandparents didn't go through college and only finish high school, they were successful because they had luck on their side.

The world was a different place a couple of generations ago. College degrees were much less the norm. You could get a good job and have a lifelong successful career without one. That is much harder to do today, though certainly not impossible. It depends on the field.

[kenny911]

My civil engineering degree was worth every penny. I have an easy job and make decent money. If I didn't have this degree, I would probably be making $10 hour and doing physical labor.

[Goldy1]

Yes, I am definietly for education. I went to college right after high school so "I wouldn't have to be a receptionist for my entire life"

I just know a lot of people who are not using thier degrees and can't get jobs with them. Sure some of it is thier fault, but some not. A lot of my friends who became successful in thier chosen career paths moved to different states and some have moved more than once.

I am all for associate degrees b/c they get down to the nitty gritty of teaching some skills.
I am just sying it is presumptuous to pick a major, spend 5 years getting a b.s. degree assuming you will 1) get a job and 2) like it. which I did and it didn't work out.
But I have to change my attitude back to more positive and move on The past is over.
WE owe about 29K only on our home (paid a lot of extra prin payments and dh bought it way back in 1997 before we met) in a nice neighborhood I enjoy so moving and taking a chance to try and sell with a child on the way would be too much right now. Maybe one day I will open my mind up to it more. I think moving would be tough b/c cost of living might differ, and what if we get laid off in another state anyway? My biggest concern is our future earnings potential.

[SnoopyCool]

All this talk of CAD/CAM waxes me nostalgic...
My degree is in Manufacturing Engineering Technology, and I haven't used it a day outside of college (I worked throughout college doing paid co-ops and internships).

Anyway, I think if you can go cheap or free, then go! I'd love to get a Master's degree, but I would go into debt to get it so I choose to wait until that's not the case anymore. I might be 80!

[snafu]

There is no rule that requires you to limit yourself to degree related employment. A degree is often the basic requirement to make the cut to have your resume reviewed by someone higher than the office clerk who opens the mail!

By all means reject 'nursing' but have a look at the tech related jobs like Radiology Imaging MRI, UltrraSound, Mammography, or Forensic Sciences, or Lab Techs or Hygienists,
respiratory therapists, health diagnostics...the list goes on and on.

College/university is not for everyone but technical training and skill sets are important for work and success in the 'trades.' Just now we are importing police recruits from England as there are insufficient candidates to go to police training 'college' in Canada.

[jIM_Ohio]

He would be best off taking a Cetia class, for example (paying $2600) than getting a degree, IMO.

But apply without the Cetia. All the systems are the same, the buttons are just different. My company would hire a Cetia user in a second if they had the right experience for the job and train them.

Took me around 1 month to learn I-deas, used it for 4 years, then took 1 UG course and I had transferred between 66-80 percent of my knowledge of one software to another. The software is just a tool, it is not a skill. The skill is knowing how to apply engineering, manufacturing and drafting knowledge with the tool.

Your dh has most of his skill in cam... he should look for both solidworks and solidedge in the classifieds. He should look in the Carolina's, Texas and Tennessee for job listings. Maybe Ohio, Maybe Washington (state).

If he is looking to diversify his skill, he should consider looking at the pure cad and drafting sides of the software (so he could do design work), then also look at CAE once he knows cad. Or look at IT once he knows cad. Or look at pdm once he knows cad.

Most of the opportunities I have available to me are based on pdm (Teamcenter), and pdm is where the industry is growing most. Our cad lines grow at around 4-6 percent. Our pdm growth is 10-20 percent.

Have dh search for jobs with following words (and compare # of jobs for each search):
solidworks
Teamcenter
CAM
pdm
CAE

I would assume pdm or Teamcenter has the most jobs. If he understands CAM and the design process which created the data, pdm is where most of the jobs are.

[Goldy1]

thanks Jim, I can see what you mean;mostly cam work. I really liked the advice on not being fearful of applying for an EXACT software match, and it being a tool. I told him worst case scenario is it doesn't work out if you try it. He finds out tomorrow if he gets the grant / free tuition thru the state program. He is not worried as our emergancy fund is loaded quite well, but has expressed concern over forgetting the software if not employed for a long time again in cad cam.
ps
By the way, I like how practical people are around here.