I have a car buying question...

[ScrimpAndSave]

My fiance is 5 hours away in law school and he has a 2001 honda civic. He bought it for $10,000 with about 30,000 miles on it before law school...figuring that it would be a good reliable car (not too stylish - but that wasn't important). He will have the car paid off in august 2009...but he really thinks that he got a lemon...there are break problems...electrical problems...and it has about 70,000 miles on it now. It has been back and forth to the shop a million times...and he bought it certified used..now the warranty has run out.

I always liked banking on the fact that we will have two paid off cars when we get married...but I fear about whether his is really dependable or not. Does it make sense to trade it in for something that is around $15k that we can keep for the long term? Should we just get this one all fixed up? It feels terrible when you drive it...and I am all about not having a car payment and paying cash for everything...I don't have a car payment on mine.

My dad is good with cars...knows a lot of lots that sell reliable cars for good deals. I'd love for him to get a newer accord or a toyota.

[noppenbd]

I have heard it is a good idea to replace when the annual maintenance is greater than the payments on the replacement vehicle. Let's assume you can sell it for $5-$6k in current condition, and you buy a $15K vehicle, and finance it for 48 months. The payments are around $270 a month, or $3240 a year. If your yearly maintenance exceeds $3240 then it is time to replace it. I think the analysis is valid even if you pay cash because of the opportunity cost.

[project15]

Keep the civic. There can only be so many things that need fixing until you've replaced everything that's bad on it....normally

[ScrimpAndSave]

Noppen, this is awesome advice. Thank you so much!

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by project15

There can only be so many things that need fixing until you've replaced everything that's bad on it

This can turn out to be very expensive advice.

A Honda really shouldn't have all that much trouble with relatively low mileage (70,000 miles on an 8-year-old vehicle).

If you don't feel comfortable with it and don't feel you can depend on it, I think that is a powerful reason to get rid of it.

You guys are excellent savers. Sell the car. Buy another one with cash, preferably, or a small loan if you need to but definitely not longer than 3 years. I think 15K should get you a very nice car, maybe 3 years old, that you can then keep for 7 or more years after that.

[tripods68]

Personally, I would look at the blue book value versus unexpected repair cost. The monthly payments does not take into consideration depreciation value. Maintenance repair and Unexpected Repair are two different things.

Maintenance repair is done in mileage intervals (15K, 30K, 60K). You change brake pads, or replace coolants in those intervals.

Unexpected Repair cost happens because the tranny is now slipping which require repairing or replacing.

I would use the yearly Unexpected Repair and the blue book value instead.

Blue book value 6K
Repair Cost: $3200

If the repair costs is below BB value, repair the car is worth it, or vice versa.

Just my .02 cents

[noppenbd]

Originally Posted by tripods68

Personally, I would look at the blue book value versus unexpected repair cost. The monthly payments does not take into consideration depreciation value. Maintenance repair and Unexpected Repair are two different things.

Maintenance repair is done in mileage intervals (15K, 30K, 60K). You change brake pads, or replace coolants in those intervals.

Unexpected Repair cost happens because the tranny is now slipping which require repairing or replacing.

I would use the yearly Unexpected Repair and the blue book value instead.

Blue book value 6K
Repair Cost: $3200

If the repair costs is below BB value, repair the car is worth it, or vice versa.

Just my .02 cents

Bad advice, in my opinion. If I have a car worth $6K, putting $6K in maintenance/repairs into it every year does not make sense.

[ScrimpAndSave]

Being from a family that always relied on Honda's, I find that this car has needed a lot of repairs...and a 2001 car is basically a "new" car to me. I'm not the type of person that would buy a car every three years and have a new car payment. I'd rather not have a payment at all...

But I also know that buying a $15,000 car (Acura, Lexus, Toyota, Honda) would last us a very, very long time.

[tripods68]

Originally Posted by noppenbd

Bad advice, in my opinion. If I have a car worth $6K, putting $6K in maintenance/repairs into it every year does not make sense.

Here's the point. Why would you keep a car (maintain and repair) that exceeds KBB? You don't.

This is how insurance company determine whether a car is worth repairing versus settling a claim. I had an accident with my dodge avenger about 7 years ago. That time, it was worth (KBB ) $6K. It cost $7k to repair it. The repair cost exceeded the value of the car. GEICO decided it was better to write me a check for $6K.

BTW: if you continue to pay anywhere over $1000 a year on just unexpected repair cost (not maintenance) i would personally wouldn't keep the car. That's suggest to me the car is a lemon. The headache alone just isn't worth keeping it. But that's just me. I have older car now I use to commute( 95 Nissan Altima). I paid $3K cash three years ago. So far I never paid any unexpected repair cost, just maintenance about $500 per year. I would probably keep this car as long as I can--barring any serious repair cost.

[m3racer]

Can you give more specifics about the car repairs? Let's be realistic about the situation. The car has 70k miles and is a Honda civic. Some of you like Steve might think that's a new car but it's not!!! If you're paying for minor repairs and wear & tear items (brakes, suspension, etc) than it's not unusual. Also, who's the mechanic that's working on the car? How do you know this mechanic is very competent? Finding a good mechanic is pretty hard IMO. Give us more details.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by m3racer

The car has 70k miles and is a Honda civic. Some of you like Steve might think that's a new car but it's not!!!

I didn't say it was new. I just said I thought that was relatively low mileage for a Honda to be giving out. Both of our Toyotas are over 100K and I'm hoping not to have to replace either of them for a few more years. I would expect a Honda to last a lot longer than 70K.

[m3racer]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

I didn't say it was new. I just said I thought that was relatively low mileage for a Honda to be giving out. Both of our Toyotas are over 100K and I'm hoping not to have to replace either of them for a few more years. I would expect a Honda to last a lot longer than 70K.

LOL...I knew you would post a comment like that. I do agree with you that Hondas have a reputation of longevity. However, I don't think the OP is giving us enough info for us to say that her Civic has major issues.

[disneysteve]

I agree that the type of repairs are important to look at. We just spent a couple thousand to have some work done on our 2000 Sienna with over 100K, but it was almost entirely wear and tear stuff: brakes, tires, shocks, etc. Nothing that concerned me about the future reliability of the vehicle.

OP did mention electrical problems, though, and that could be an issue. In my experience, electrical problems are notoriously difficult to isolate and correct.

[ScrimpAndSave]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

I agree that the type of repairs are important to look at. We just spent a couple thousand to have some work done on our 2000 Sienna with over 100K, but it was almost entirely wear and tear stuff: brakes, tires, shocks, etc. Nothing that concerned me about the future reliability of the vehicle.

OP did mention electrical problems, though, and that could be an issue. In my experience, electrical problems are notoriously difficult to isolate and correct.

This is very true. Our last honda accord lasted for about 250,000 miles...and it was a 1991. I sold it in 2004 for $3,000! I had a 2001 Accord that had 150,000 miles on it and sold it last year for $8,000. Both cars ran on a dime and had a lot life left. A honda with 70k on it is still in its infancy, to me!

He has been taking it to a honda dealership (which I disagree with...in my opinion, they just screw you over). My dad has a network of car repairmen that he has had service his cars over the years..when my fiance gets home and graduates (in May), I am going to have one of these guys look it over and give their professinal opnion on what is going on. I don't have any more details about it...all I know is that when he takes it to the dealership to have brakes replaced...they are "crunching" just a few months later. There are electrical problems as well - but I don't know all the details.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by ScrimpAndSave

He has been taking it to a honda dealership (which I disagree with...in my opinion, they just screw you over).

Mixed feelings about that. I think years ago, the price difference between the dealerships and independent mechanics used to be a lot bigger, at least in my experience in this area. Plus, the level of service at the dealership has always been superior and they are very accommodating at getting me in whenever needed. At my dealership at least, they give me a free loaner anytime I bring a car in for service. Just that fact makes up a chunk of any extra I'm paying. I also trust that the dealership mechanics are familiar with working on their brand of vehicles since that is almost all they do, and needed parts are almost always in stock.

So for me, it is a comfort-level and convenience thing more than a money thing, though I don't think the money thing is as dramatic as it used to be.

[ScrimpAndSave]

Disneysteve, I understand what you are saying. I guess what helps with our usual mechanics is the fact that many of them work at the dealerships for their day jobs...and they help out friends on the side.

[ScrimpAndSave]

I actually posed the question to my fiance..on whether we should buy a different car when he gets out of school...and he said, "No way! I am never having another car payment again...it doesn't make sense to pay a $3,000-$4,000 over the course of a year when the mantainence costs on my current car are so much lower.

Awh, he's so smarty. I lubs him.

[bigsaver]

If that car keeps breaking down on you, you may want to look at a new 2008 toyota yaris. Good gas mileage, cheap, and they have 0% financing. Can also get 0% financing on a 2009 toyota corolla.

[Bimmer]

Repair and maintenance are two different things. I'm with M3racer, more info on the problems is important. Cars require maintenance, usually more as they age. Bushings wear out, wires get frayed/cut, water gets where it should'nt, etc. Things happen.

Brakes are bad, but they could be due for service even if you have had a brake job already (think about the work and stress brakes are subject to when doing their job!). This is normal wear and tear.

Electrical is really generic. Simple annoyances or problems that affect driveability/reliability?

How is the car driven? Jack-rabbit starts/stops or like grandma drives?

Perhaps most importantly, how much does your SO like the car? Enough to work through some problems and keep it? Or is it simply point A to B transport and any old car will do?

[Bimmer]

Originally Posted by ScrimpAndSave

I actually posed the question to my fiance..on whether we should buy a different car when he gets out of school...and he said, "No way! I am never having another car payment again...it doesn't make sense to pay a $3,000-$4,000 over the course of a year when the mantainence costs on my current car are so much lower.

Awh, he's so smarty. I lubs him.

D'oh, did not see this post before I posted. Looks like the question has been answered, and by the only person who really counts!