How many have considered long-term care insurance?

[asmom]

If you haven't, may I suggest you do?

Let me explain: I've been a registered nurse for over 17 years. I've had the opportunity to work in almost every setting and with every population you can think of. Currently I do disease management of an elderly population during the day and on the side I do assessments for long term care insurance companies. I'm tired this week because I have been bouncing between these extremes, those whose needs are being met and those who are not. I have learned that the sick elderly tend to fall into three groups:

Group A: These folks are poor and have been all their lives. They are in constant crisis. They can't afford their meds even with medicare and medicaid. They are always having issues with keeping their lights on, paying their rent or transportation to and from the doctor. They have no savings and no reserve whatsoever. Family support is minimal because their kids and grandkids tend to be of similar circumstance. (note: this does not mean they are on welfare or have never worked. they are just poor).

Group B: This is your middle-class and working class group. These folks have more stable lives. They may have retired from a job after working for 30 years. They tend to own their own homes and have cars. However, they are stressed just as much as group A. They have savings and a steady income but co-pays and medication costs eat into their fixed income. They sometimes have to turn down needed equipment or tests because they can't afford it. They may or may not have family that can help but help is always minimal and strained. They need both physical and emotional respite but it is not to be had because they cannot afford it. There is a lot of stress, fear and resentment of the sick one.

Group C: This is the LTC group. These folks have planned well for the future. They are of varying socioeconomic and racial demographics. In their old lives, they may have been doctors and lawyers or factory workers and mailmen. What they have in common is they planned well. These folks live in posh assisted living facilities or they live at home with round the clock help. Their family members are free to come and go as they please because they have help that is paid for. They have fewer injuries and tend to weather their illnesses better than groups A and B.


There are also people whose families pull together and take care of their needs without LTC insurance. You have no way of knowing if your family will be that family, there are a lot of people out there who were surprised by the lack of help from their children or grandchildren.


When I deal with group A and B, I hear a lot of tears and a lot of desperation. I never hear that with group C. Long term care insurance is expensive and you may never use it. But if you ever need it by God it's worth it. It's something to think about when you are planning for your retirement.

[jIM_Ohio]

I have not looked into LTC.
I have read on retirement forums that it is not a good deal and have yet to see someone sway that opinion.

Here is my understanding:

I have read the LTC insurance is too expensive and it's tough to plan (or more expensive). For example between my wife and me, one of us will probably need LTC. We are too young to fund it now (I e-mailed a few web sites and it was stated I was not eligible) and by the time we are old enough to fund it, more than likely our nest egg will be big enough we do not need to insure against the risk, we could just pay cash for it instead.

Meaning if you don't have a lot to retire on it makes sense. if you have a large enough nest egg, only pay for the nursing home care you need, and it's probable you will save money.

Tell me why I'm wrong and maybe I will learn something.

[asmom]

Originally Posted by jIM_Ohio

by the time we are old enough to fund it, more than likely our nest egg will be big enough we do not need to insure against the risk, we could just pay cash for it instead.

Meaning if you don't have a lot to retire on it makes sense. if you have a large enough nest egg, only pay for the nursing home care you need, and it's probable you will save money.

Tell me why I'm wrong and maybe I will learn something.

It's very expensive and you may never need it. I acknowledge that.
But the thing is, you don't know when you will need it or for how long. You also don't know what level of care you will need. That's the gamble.


Let's say you are unfortunate enough to have Alzheimer's. It's a progressive disease and some go faster than others. But in the past month, I have seen two Alzheimer's patients who were otherwise in good health! If they don't fall or catch pneumonia (and they are getting good care so it is less likely), they could live for a very long time! If you want your loved one to live in a relatively decent ALF, that could eat into your savings significantly. I was in a personal care home that was a only a mid-level facility and it cost $3500 per month, and the residents are still responsible to pay for their own meds, personal care supplies(like adult diapers), insurance and equipment. And you do want to leave some for your spouse to live on.

If you are healthy all of your life and drop dead when you are 80, then it's a bad investment. If you are diagnosed with a slowly progressing disorder when you are only 65, it's a great idea.

I know I'm being somewhat emotional. I've been bouncing between these extremes all week. I'm thinking now about the 80+ year old lady I've been talking to all week who is taking care of her 85 year old husband who has dementia. They own their own home, they are both college-educated and they have some retirement funds and I am sure they thought they were prepared well for the future. But they have no family to help out and she cannot afford to pay someone on a regular basis to look after him. She doesn't sleep at night because he's up all night. And the stress of taking care of him is wearing on her health. I don't want to be 80 years old and having to change my husband's diaper. Her physician suggested she sell her home and move into cheaper digs. Assuming she could sell her house in this economy, the stress of a move would probably finish her off and who wants to be forced to make that choice at that stage of their life anyway?

On the other hand, I met with a different 80 year old lady whose husband is slowly dying of a neurological disease he's had for 15 years now. She's sad but she is free to be sad because she is not in the least bit overwhelmed by his care as it is all take care of.

[tripods68]

I've heard over the years you don't really need the LTHC until you reach 55 or 60 years since it isn't worth to buy in your 30's or 40's. Is that true?

[disneysteve]

I can't say that I've looked into LTC for myself, being only 44, but my mother does have a policy. She just turned 78 and got it a number of years ago. Will she ever need it? Who knows? What we do know is that 2 of her sisters spent the last several years of their lives in nursing homes. They did not have LTC and the care cost them every penny of savings they had and then some. Their kids also contributed lots of money toward their needs. We don't ever want to be in that position if we can avoid it. It is worth spending a couple thousand/year now to insure against that possibility.

I have also heard that 50 or so is the time to start looking at policies. What do you say, asmom? What is a good age to get LTC? Does it depend on your health or your family history?

I have a family member who just turned 50 and was recently diagnosed with a form of dementia. He was always in good health and there was no family history. Scary stuff can and does happen.

[simpletron]

statistically, all insurance products are bad deals. insurance companies make money, so on average people pay more in than what is paid out. so the odds are in your favor that you will pay more to the insurance company than what they pay you.

there is always the what if sititution that makes insurance important. if you can easily afford the worst case scenerio, then you don't want the insurance. if can't afford the worst case scenerio, then you should get the insurance.

this is the reason why i choose the health insurance, i did. I got the one that covers the disasters sititutions very well and doesn't really cover the day to day expenses. because I can't afford those disasters, but I can afford the day to day expenses.

I'm way too young to consider LTC insurance. but when I get closer to retirement, I would look at wether or not I could afford to live without it to make my decision.

[Gruntina]

We had an employee discount option from a Long Term health care vendor that was available to us.

After crunching numbers from my calculated estimate from the vendor, I decided not to join because I am age 32. If I did get injured or sick in the near future, then it’s a great deal for only a very short term period because my max daily limit would be used up in less than 5 years and then I am out of luck with the insurance policy! However... if I contribute and do not get injured before age 55, I have spent as much into the insurance as I would get out of it. It seems like a bad deal and one of those money making strategy which is in the best interest of the company and not the individuals.

I much rather put my money in a savings vehicle and let it grow with interests and be optimistic. Even though my husband and I are very independent and responsible for our financial and health being, we still have family and other network if we needed any help in dire situations. I am a strong believer that even if our aim in America is to be fully sufficient, there is a reason people need each other.

[Gruntina]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

I have also heard that 50 or so is the time to start looking at policies. What do you say, asmom? What is a good age to get LTC? Does it depend on your health or your family history?

Disneysteve - that is the gamble! According to all the documents I received from a LTHC vendor that the company I worked for used, it says your premiums are calculated by age when you enroll in the plan and the older you are, the more expensive the montly contribution will be. So it is cheaper if you started younger. It also will increase according to inflation after you enroll.
Also you have to have to prove that you have a good clean bill of health to be eligible to enroll in a plan or you will be denied.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Gruntina

it says your premiums are calculated by age when you enroll in the plan and the older you are, the more expensive the montly contribution will be. So it is cheaper if you started younger.

Of course that's true. That's how insurance agents talk people into getting coverage they don't need, like life insurance on their children. "Get it at birth just in case they become uninsurable later."

What people forget to look at is the total cost. Would you rather pay a lower price for 50 years or a higher price for 20 years?

I don't think you should buy insurance based on the cost. You should buy insurance because you need the coverage it offers.

[Thrif-t]

I've considered it big time. I'm 42 and DH is 44, his mother has altzheimers and started around age 65 she's 69 now. His maternal grandmother and grandfather got it but not till their 80's. His paternal grandmother had it but not till her 80's also. Scary!! I'm hoping to seriously shop around for it in another 5 years when he's closer to 50 but then our children will start entering college at that time

[Mamaw]

I am 67 and I do have LTC. my mom is 90 and my grandmother lived to 100 and was in a nursing home for 10 years. My daughter-in-law had once said when both her Mom and my minds were going she was putting us in a nursing home so I figured I had better be ready. I am a widow so I would need care.

[Like2Plan]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

Of course that's true. That's how insurance agents talk people into getting coverage they don't need, like life insurance on their children. "Get it at birth just in case they become uninsurable later."

What people forget to look at is the total cost. Would you rather pay a lower price for 50 years or a higher price for 20 years?

I don't think you should buy insurance based on the cost. You should buy insurance because you need the coverage it offers.

But, if you have been paying premiums for 50 years, you have also been covered for 50 years.
Insurance is a strange thing--especially life ins. If you think about it, your own life ins policy doesn't do anything for you because you are gone when the policy is paid off.
LTC insurance is a downer, too. You collect if you become not able to take basic care of yourself. (unable to perform the activities of independent living such as bathing, dressing, toileting, continence, eating or the person requires care and supervision due to a severe cognitive impairment-memory loss, dementia, etc.)
I think most people hope that if that day ever comes, it is a long, long, long time in the future. And, an accident out of the blue that strikes one in the prime of their life is not something one thinks about...

I am less than 3 years from retirement and so DH and I have LTC coverage-- just from a pragmatic point of view. We do not have enough assets to self insure. If one of us needed this type of care without having the LTC ins, it could be leave the other without enough assets to survive comfortably in retirement.

[asmom]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

I have also heard that 50 or so is the time to start looking at policies. What do you say, asmom? What is a good age to get LTC? Does it depend on your health or your family history?

DS, it depends more on your own health. I think ~55 or so is a perfect time to start looking at policies, definitely not before 50 if you are in good health, active, etc.

I also want to point out that one thing people don't consider when they are assessing their overall health are things like their social life, hobbies, etc. Those things are figured into the cost of the policy.

[frugalisa]

I'm 46 and haven't looked into this yet, but I was wondering how much LTC insurance would cost. I would just like a general idea of what it will cost if I decide to get the insurance when I'm 50 to 55 years old. Anyone know a general range of premiums for a relatively healthy 55 year old?

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Like2Plan

But, if you have been paying premiums for 50 years, you have also been covered for 50 years.

I understand that as far as life insurance. I've had that since I was in my early 30s and had a wife, child and mortgage to provide for.

But why do I need LTC at age 40? The odds of me requiring care are infinitesimally small. Even at 50, I'd think the odds are quite low.

Like you, though, when I am nearing retirement age is when I'd expect to be looking into this.

[Like2Plan]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

But why do I need LTC at age 40? The odds of me requiring care are infinitesimally small. Even at 50, I'd think the odds are quite low.
.

DS,
In my opinion, age 40 is a little bit young to sign up for it. I signed up for my policy just before I turned 49. (Age 50 seems to be the time everything starts falling apart. )You being a Dr., you probably have a better handle on the actual statistics.

[Gruntina]

The biggest misconception of the long term health insurance is that people think, once you have it, you’re covered for the rest of your life.

It can only cover so much and there is a max amount dollar amount you are insured up to. In my case of crunching the numbers, If I was in a car accident and injured for life where I needed help with dressing and eating or had cancer.... I would need to use my daily max limit and would run out of the insurance max in 5 years!

If it is a smaller injury and not need the max daily limit, then it can spread out further. LTC insurance is only a supplement to your existing health insurance and you will still need that later in life.

Usually the max daily limit is between 300 - 500 dollars a day and that sounds like a lot. If you really think about it, the cost of using the hospital facilities, hiring someone to help you dress, eat, get groceries, prescription, physical therapy... all adds up pretty fast!

It seems to be a terrific deal only for those who had unexpected health issue shortly after being on the plan


I am all for having some sort of long term health care but there is yet to be a plan out there that fits the bill reasonably.

[disneysteve]

Gruntina - I'm not sure of your point. Are you saying LTC isn't needed, or isn't a good deal, or just trying to point out that it doesn't cover everything forever?

You also seem to be blending LTC expenses with regular medical insurance expenses. Prescriptions and physical therapy, for example, would be paid for by your medical insurance, not your LTC.

[Like2Plan]

Gruntina,
All these variables depend on the terms of your policy.
You can get a 3 year maximum, 5 yr maximum or unlimted, increasing coverage with inflation, et'c. There are also policies which have a joint component to it for husband and wife.
I believe the average stay in long term care is about 2 or 3 years.

Link to Metlife (one company which offers LTC)

[imfreak]

in the previous years, very few Americans consider long term care insurance due to lack of urgency and insufficient info on its advantages. however, when Americans witnessed the drastic effects of lack of planning, the number have increased, though not that much. Many insurance companies and private organizations are working hand in hand to educate the public about the consequences of not preparing for ltc