What do you think about unions and striking?

[cptacek]

I work at a company where the collective bargaining agreement expires this weekend. I am not in the union as I am in IT (and I wouldn't be even if they had a union for IT people), but our management have been prepping us (just a little) about what to expect. But, there seems to be a lot of sensational anecdotes flying around, like they are trying to scare the newbies.

Like, it might take over 2 hours to pull into the parking lot on the first day of the strike because they can stand in front of your car and even if you are only going 2 mph they will stand there and not move and pretend like you hit them and fall on the ground clutching their backs.

Or they might put nails in their pickets and when they lean over to scream at you they will intentionally scratch your vehicle.

Or they will throw nails over the fence into the parking lot.

Or they will get drunk and rowdy and physically intimidate you. Even at 8:00 in the morning.

Or will scream really, really, really bad names at you and surround your car like you are in the middle of a riot or something. Luckily I have a bigger truck, so they won't be towering over the top of me.

We haven't heard much of anything but looking at the union's web site, they are really throwing around incendiary comments. Saying that if the union members cross the picket line they are scabs. That they are slaves to the corporation unless they vote to strike. That the union on the other side of town in another manufacturing plant got a REALLY good increase in pay, etc., and our people have to get exactly that or more be prepared to sit it out for months.

So, I guess I'm looking for a bit of information and was curious as to what you have been through, as well as what you think of unions and striking in general.

[JanH]

We have friends on both sides. While I think some demands are pretty steep, I do know that some of the nonunion benefits such as better health insurance (I think that is one) has come from extensions of what the unions have negotiated. So, in some things we have benefitted ourselves from the unions. As for the strikes, we've been through one (we're not part of the union) and some neighbors were on the other side during another long one at another plant. I've seen that it is not good for either side. I have no idea of what really goes on at the gates. I'm sure there are some nasty characters who will do anything, but I think that a lot of the strikers are well behaved, too. There are some that take unfair advantage with the union rules, but then I suppose the reasons that they formed in the first place was management taking advantage at one time. I do know that Hubby and others have had to work hard to help the negotiators of both sides have a meeting of the minds. I think sometimes it depends on the leadership of both sides. Sometimes, the economy and the condition of the company itself might play a part. I also think that they try to do longer contracts now so that they don't have to do this so often. I dread contract time. Some leaders on both sides can be pretty inflexible on certain things and it drags on with no one seeing the light. Good luck and I hope that a strike can be avoided at your company. Hopefully, cool heads will prevail on both sides of the issues. After all is done, Hubby is still able to get along with and work with those on both sides.

[feh]

Interesting topic, and one that I've never really discussed with people, as I've never been a union member. I'd like to hear feedback to my thoughts...

I'm quite liberal (registered Democrat), but unionization is one of the few issues where I disagree with my party. That's not to say I think all unions are terrible; I'm sure there are some unions where collective bargaining is needed to secure decent wages and/or benefits.

But, I'm aware of many more cases where I feel unions cause damage. One such example is teachers unions. Let me preface this by saying that I feel public education is terribly important, and that it should be much better in the US than it is. And I feel teachers are generally underpaid for the critical job that they do. However, I've seen bad teachers stay employed merely because they are union members (it's nearly impossible to fire a union member). And the concept that good teachers shouldn't be rewarded with higher pay (as opposed to pay being set by how many years you've been teaching) appalls me.

Another example is auto workers. The Big Three essentially caved into their demands over the last 3 decades, and the salaries some of these people make for working on the assembly line startles me. Many (not all) of these folks are doing extremely simple manual labor tasks and being payed much more than such a position would demand on the open market, IMO. Not to mention the long-term consequences (pension funds) of those contracts that have essentially taken down the Big Three. They can't make a well-built car at a decent price due to the overhead of their labor contracts.

I may be biased. I'm a white collar worker who has always been employed and paid well due to the fact that I'm in a field that if you're good at what you do (computer programming), there is generally always a good paying job available.

I'd like to hear the other side of the story, so if you disagree with me, please post.

[PrincessPerky]

Unions are no longer run by the bravest leader working..they are run by a fellow often paid to do nothing more than manage the contracts...he gets paid while other strike...not a smart combo.

That said at one time they were VERY necessary... many changes in the mills and mines safetywise came about due to the persistence and dedication of union organizers.

Nowadays they mostly cause trouble asking for too much IMO. safety is often overhandled by the state.

As to what to expect that depends on your group..in general though peaceful protest is just that..bunch of bored folk.

I knew a fellow who crossed picket lines (medical field) he was not harmed in any way (name calling of course) but he might have lost a lunch buddy or two.

[Terin]

I think unions are the only way to go. You dont really make more after the union fees and everything but your job is always gonna be there. Also benefits from unions are about 100x better than benefits from non unions.

[DebbieL]

I highly disagree with the last comment - at least as far as most unionized companies where I live are concerned. These workers make far more than they would for doing anything similar anywhere else. My sister worked as a telephone operator for our local phone company (it's unionized). She worked 6.5 hour shifts, had benefits out the wazoo, and made probably 3 times what anyone doing anything similar in a non-unionized environment would have made.

I personally think there are way too many lazy people being protected by these unions. It's so hard to get rid of them once they are in. My mom worked at the hospital (also union) and complained all the time about the dead weight. Some of them were off on paid stress leave more often than they were actually at work (months at a time sometimes). How much more stressful is it to mop floors at a hospital than anywhere else?

[cptacek]

Yeah, I've heard stories from other manufacturing companies across town that got sold and everyone had to reapply for their jobs. The 20 year guys that had gotten into the habit of getting to work on time, taking a nap on the bench, taking a break on time, taking another nap, etc., weren't hired back. Seriously.

But, I've also heard that whatever they get for health insurance benefits will change our benefits too. So, I've heard some coworkers hoping they get great benefits but are defeated on everything else.

And if these jobs are such "highly skilled jobs" like the union posters keep saying, then why not let competition and not seniority be the way they are handed out?

[SnoopyCool]

I've grown up with a bad taste in my mouth for unions, as my dad's full-time job is in a lime mine (he's management) and the one time they had a union it was messy. They just voted to reinstate the union this spring, so here they go again.

I worked at a power plant in management and I heard the horror stories of union strikes. Then there's all the walking on eggshells to make sure the union is happy. No thanks. A lot of the union workers there took advantage of being in the union and kept their jobs when they should have been let go.

[GrimJack]

Generally, we all live better because of unions and strikes - the 5 pickets hung from power lines during the Chicago Haymarket strike got us 40 hour work week. I find it interesting that probably the worst of the working conditions are in mines - all you have to do is compare the mining death rates in the US with almost anywhere else in the 2nd or 3rd worlds. We just had a horrible mine disaster where fewer than 20 people died, whereas in China and other countries hundreds die yearly. This is almost exclusively because of unions.

We have child labor laws; 'Company Town' is now almost a joking reference rather than the near slavery of previous eras.

No one is going to key your car or scream at you - that is for the people who cross the picket lines to replace the strikers, and even then that is usually handled through the courts.

I won't try to address all of the worries you express or all the complaints about union abuses. Management is not all 'Simon Legree' and unions are not all firebomb-throwing anarchists - in the end both are looking towards the future.

[sweeps]

In related news... Wal-Mart warning U.S. managers of labor bill

[maat55]

I think unions have out lived they're usefulness. Our country is having a hard time competeing with the world because of them. Many companies that have them are being strangled by them. IMO.

[GrimJack]

Are you saying it is the unions' fault that sweatshops in Asia produce cheaper products? Don't you think it might be a better world if we brought every one up to our level than reduce the world to the worst work conditions?

[cptacek]

I don't know how getting rid of unions would automatically reduce us to sweatshop labor. That is quite a stretch.

I disagree with unions because I like to be judged on my merit. If I do a better job than the person beside me, I should get paid more, no matter how long each of us has been at the company. If the person beside me doesn't make the company money (provide a skill to the company that translates to increased profits), they should be fired.

[maat55]

Originally Posted by GrimJack

Are you saying it is the unions' fault that sweatshops in Asia produce cheaper products? Don't you think it might be a better world if we brought every one up to our level than reduce the world to the worst work conditions?

Destroying our companies with overpriced labor isn't going to have any effect on how other countries run their businesses. I certainly don't think unions are making the world a better place.

[GrimJack]

Originally Posted by maat55

Destroying our companies with overpriced labor isn't going to have any effect on how other countries run their businesses. I certainly don't think unions are making the world a better place.

Maat, I sort of gathered that. I would like you to explain how unions are destroying our companies? Would you be specific? Do you refuse to accept overtime pay because that is tainted by union connections? Do you advocate getting rid of 40 hour work week? How about paid vacations and/or getting weekends off?

What parts of union negotiations would you turn down? Unions got us company paid health insurance, lunch breaks, coffee breaks.

[PrincessPerky]

I am too lazy to do the research but I am pretty sure breaks and company health benefits are required by federal law. Unions can make them better but getting them is required.

Also I think life would be better if we shipped the unions overseas...don't really need em here (we have big bro govt), but India could use them.

[cptacek]

I think that unions had their place, and they did do a great job stopping sweatshop like conditions here. But I think they have run their course and aren't necessary anymore.

[GrimJack]

Originally Posted by PrincessPerky

I am too lazy to do the research but I am pretty sure breaks and company health benefits are required by federal law. Unions can make them better but getting them is required.

Yes, and so are paid vacations, overtime pay, 40 hour work weeks but the unions forced the issue

Also I think life would be better if we shipped the unions overseas...don't really need em here (we have big bro govt), but India could use them.

Then we would all work in Mal-Mart conditions where you will be get to work off the clock and through your breaks. Then, your hours will be cut until you don't qualify for health insurance or any other benefits. Take a look here

[GrimJack]

Originally Posted by cptacek

I think that unions had their place, and they did do a great job stopping sweatshop like conditions here. But I think they have run their course and aren't necessary anymore.

I only wish that were true. Just take a look at how Wal-Mart treats its employees.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
Unions are needed to balance the power of big gov and big business

I don't think unions are sainted institutions but then i don't think the other 2 in the triangle necessarily working in our best interests.

[PrincessPerky]

Originally Posted by GrimJack

Yes, and so are paid vacations, overtime pay, 40 hour work weeks but the unions forced the issueThen we would all work in Mal-Mart conditions where you will be get to work off the clock and through your breaks. Then, your hours will be cut until you don't qualify for health insurance or any other benefits. Take a look here

Working off the clock is illegal (call OSHA on em) and so is not taking a break (again it is a safety thing, call OSHA)

and I believe both candidates want to make the health care universal, so that wont be an issue as soon as big bro govt gets its way.

Unions ARE big buisness, just not a manufacturing business.