What do you think about unions and striking?

[GrimJack]

Originally Posted by Newbie

The unreasonable demands of unions started the demise of the US auto companies. I think they do more harm than good..

No! The unreasonable expectations of management started the demise of the US auto companies. In what way do they do more harm than good? What are the unreasonable demands that unions make?

[GrimJack]

Originally Posted by cptacek

Yeah, I've heard stories from other manufacturing companies across town that got sold and everyone had to reapply for their jobs. The 20 year guys that had gotten into the habit of getting to work on time, taking a nap on the bench, taking a break on time, taking another nap, etc., weren't hired back. Seriously.

But, I've also heard that whatever they get for health insurance benefits will change our benefits too. So, I've heard some coworkers hoping they get great benefits but are defeated on everything else.

And if these jobs are such "highly skilled jobs" like the union posters keep saying, then why not let competition and not seniority be the way they are handed out?

I question that the 'companies across town' chose not to hire back any of the workers who were getting close to retirement or were getting a decent wage.

So, you are thinking screw the unions but I want the good stuff they get?

Part of the problem with 'let competition' determine how the jobs are handed out is that then blacks, women, gays, etc. don't have a chance to compete because the manager does not like them or does not think they are capable. The seniority system was worked out as a way to make the system a little more fair.

[feh]

Originally Posted by GrimJack

Would you tell me what you think overpriced labor is? I have heard that complaint before and don't get much of an answer but some mumbling.

Do you think 100 million dollar salaries for executives is justified?

Can you name a company that has been destroyed by overpriced labor?

One of the major reasons GM is in such bad shape is because of the pay/benefits of its union workers.

[maat55]

Originally Posted by GrimJack

You choose to be self-employed and complain that someone else chooses a different path? You listen to talk radio and 'Friend of a Friend' comments to form your opinions.

I agree that self-employment is a tough go which is why I don't go that route. I also find a lot of other career paths not to my liking. The point I am shooting for is that every career path has its goods and its evils - everyone complains about their coworkers, unions make an easy target but....

That your pro and I'm con makes no difference. Because this country has to compete globally, american companies have to adjust. Unions are somewhat of a brick wall in the way of progress. Until other countries bring their standards up to ours, we have to unwillingly compromise.

[cptacek]

Originally Posted by GrimJack

I question that the 'companies across town' chose not to hire back any of the workers who were getting close to retirement or were getting a decent wage.

So, you are thinking screw the unions but I want the good stuff they get?

Part of the problem with 'let competition' determine how the jobs are handed out is that then blacks, women, gays, etc. don't have a chance to compete because the manager does not like them or does not think they are capable. The seniority system was worked out as a way to make the system a little more fair.

I didn't say "I" hope they get good benefits but nothing else. I said I've heard other co-workers hope that. As for me, I hope they get negotiating pretty soon and come to an agreement so we can start getting planes out the door again.

[PrincessPerky]

Many ills that unions were started to fix, like unsafe conditions and unfair work hours or racism are very much controlled by the gov't nowadays.

Call the ACLU or Osha if you feel threatened in any way.... unions are a business, no longer run by some one trying to make a change. Instead they are run with an eye on the bottom line, not the company line, the unions.


We don't need more unions, we need more education about individual rights. It is amazing to me how often folk are unaware of the laws regarding work...and how few read their contract before taking a job.

[bjl584]

I never worked in a union environment, but my Dad and several members of my family have all their lives. I would have to say that they have their positives and negatives just like anything else in life. With a union comes better pay and benefits, and a voice to stand up to management or unfriendly company policies. However, with a union you also get a situation where everything is reduced to a level playing field. There are no shining stars. You can be the laziest person in the world or the best most efficient worker in the world, aand often times you will make the same wage. There is no incentive to go above and beyond your job, because there is no greater reward to be had or promotion to gain after a certain point. It is a steady paycheck and in most cases a guaranteed job, but for me, I would rather have the opportunity to advance and grow even if it means that there is a chance that I could lose my job or not make as much money early in my career. I credit unions with giving us the 40 hour work week (although this is almost a thing of the past anymore), weekends off, better benefits, and safer working conditions. However, a union is a business too that collects dues and earns a profit. Sometimes when the union gets too big and powerful, the individual worker will be lost in the mix. Also, there is also the very real possibility that it can become top heavy, beaurocratic, and corrupt, ending up being no better or worse than the corporation that it claims is misrepresenting workers.

[cptacek]

Originally Posted by GrimJack

I question that the 'companies across town' chose not to hire back any of the workers who were getting close to retirement or were getting a decent wage.

I just said that they were taking naps on the job. And you said the company should hire them back because they were getting close to retirement! You really think that?!?

[prosper]

5 years ago I used to work with a company that had a union. Overall, unions are expensive and can place a company at an unfair advantage in comparison to its cometitors that do not have a union. Howerver, one thing that firms should understand is that they have to provide an environment in which their workers will flourish. Unions are neccesary. Even in this day and age. My former company had the following items:
- No benefits
- High employee turnover
- required employees to work odd hours
- forbid employees to work second job
- employees were guaranteed only 32 hours a week
- two sick days a year

In addition, the pay was really good and there were workers that got away with not fulfilling their duties. Smart firms realize that happy workers are good workers. Companies that look at the bottom line and make decisions on this concept are only creating tension between management and employees. My current company has an excellent work environment and management make an effort to let employees know that they care about their future and well-being.

[Angio333]

Originally Posted by GrimJack

No! The unreasonable expectations of management started the demise of the US auto companies. In what way do they do more harm than good? What are the unreasonable demands that unions make?

One example of an unreasonable demand by the unions were job banks...where you were paid not to work. See the link below.

Jobs bank programs -- 12,000 paid not to work - 10/17/05

Also read the book "While America Aged" by Roger Lowenstein. The 1st third of the book deals with the auto industry. It shows how the unions and the companies both destroyed tghe company. Check out the book at:

Amazon.com: While America Aged: How Pension Debts Ruined General Motors, Stopped the NYC Subways, Bankrupted San Diego, and Loom as the Next Financial Crisis: Roger Lowenstein: Books