Can personal finance save the planet?

[2moretrees]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. If people learn to control their spending and buying so much stuff, it's probably the best way to save the planet. If we can learn to buy time, experience and goodwill rather than "things" I think the personal finance movement is what may save the earth.

when we don't buy, when we take the time to recycle, when we think ahead and precycle, when we save money and the things we use, when we reuse instead of buying new, when we have the will power to know what we really want out of life and when we don't succumb to the false image that things will make us happy, we become stringer financially. This let's us consume less which is a small part to preserve the natural resources that are consumed to make all those things.

The thing is that the sustainability movement doesn't see personal finance as a partner or even related. I think this is a big downfall because the two could make great strides together. For every dollar that we don't spend, there is something that's not consumed. When that something is not consumed, it does not have to be produced. Something that does not have to be produced, does not draw from our natural resources.

Am I being too naive? Do others see the symmetry of the two movements?

[gamecock43]

I think 'going green' is expensive. Its very expensive for industry, it's expensive for common folk. If I wanted curbside recycling pickup, I have to pay $30 every quarter of a year. Curbside recycling pickup is an oxymoron in itself because of the fuel that is used to do it.
Think fuel efficient cars, they are rising in price while the SUV is sinking in price.
Recycled roofing is more expensive than regular roofs.

'Going green' is a worthwhile cause, I gladly pay the extra $$ to leave this world a bit healthier, but it costs money.

[PrincessPerky]

going green costs money, but using less doesn't.

Cleaners that are homemade work as well as commercial 'green' ones, but are cheaper.

Growing your own 'organic' is cheaper than buying regular or 'green' versions of food.

buying a hybred is expensive, keeping the same car for 5-10 years vs 2 is cheap and environmentally friendly.

IMO it is possible to help the environment cheaply but the traditional advertising for it is paid for by business. businesses are in the habit of making us spend, not save.

[Aleta]

I agree with the OP that there are many ways of saving the planet without totally going green. I agree that one way is to donate to freecycle and that will be one more item that won't go into the landfill, by a person who wants or needs it. Washing out freezer baggies and reusing them rather than throwing them away and rebuying more.

I also break down boxes that take up a lot of room in the gargage. If I see a can or cyclinder, I fill it up with anything that is to be thrown away. It saves space in the garbage can thus using less bags. I use the plastic bags from my grocery store in the kitchen as I cook and later transfer it to the garbage can.

I also have plans to get the cloth napkins rather than using the paper napkins. Thought I'd wait until school time when there are so many sales.

There are ways each of us can individually do that could make a difference.

[osadg]

Two important "things" in my life...being financial secure, and being as eco-friendly as possible. I completely agree with there being a correlation between being green and personal finance. It's clear as day when you're not consuming "stuff" in your daily life, and funds seem to slowly keep adding up in your account. It's also easy to see the connections when you look at which business aren't doing so well, and which are. There are companies, like Ford and a dozen others at least, that are losing money faster than they can rationalize it. And then others that no one expected, just jumping leaps and bounds in the market. One of Forbes' Youngest Millionaires this year was a guy who invested in solar panels-a few years ago, would anyone have thought he'd be on that list??

[cschin4]

Personally, much of the "green" movement is little more than multiple scams designed to make people "feel better" but accomplish nothing.
Sorry, I don't share your view that the planet is in danger. However, I do share your view that being frugal and efficient is simply good economics.

[cschin4]

'Going green' is a worthwhile cause, I gladly pay the extra $$ to leave this world a bit healthier, but it costs money.

Not me. I am NOT willing to pay more. What is "healthier"? How are paper bags somehow better to use than plastic or vice versa? In fact, in a recent Green Magazine, they debunked the myth that paper is more eco friendly. Turns out the opposite is true and that making plastic bags uses less energy and is less harmful to the environment.
In addition, the combustion engine and fossil fuels are a boon to the health of the planet. Can you imagine the filth, disease, cholera and e-coli and raw sewage in the streets if we went back to horse and buggy? Sheesh. Not for me. And, what earthly good would it do anybody to leave untapped oil in the ground? How is using corn which is just another enviro-feel goodism going to benefit anyone? That makes sense, let's hoist worldwide starvation on the masses and use our food for fuel. And, the cost to transport, store, ship, and make will use MORE energy than we do now. But, again, the politicians don't care as long as people think that it is eco-friendly that is all that matters to them.

[disneysteve]

Interesting discussion. I actually heard a report the other day that 70% of our GDP comes from the consumer sector. That is far higher than it used to be. Our economy has become extremely dependent on the consumer continuing to spend and spend and spend. If folks start cutting back in a significant way, it would have a major impact on the overall health of our economy, though in the long run, it would turn out to be a better thing. There would be some short term pain for sure, though.

I think "going green" means a lot of different things. Some cost more. Some save money. For example, combining errands to save on gas doesn't cost you anything. Eliminating unnecessary driving doesn't cost you anything. Replacing an old, inefficient refrigerator costs money up front but actually saves you money through lower electric bills. Adding insulation to your home also costs money at first but pays for itself in a short time and then saves you money.

So there are plenty of ways to do good for the environment and save money in the process.

[aida2003]

Originally Posted by Aleta

I also have plans to get the cloth napkins rather than using the paper napkins. Thought I'd wait until school time when there are so many sales.

Sometimes I try to figure out what is really better and whether switching to an alternative is REALLY better, greener, etc....

In your case, how will using cloth napkins help environment? Instead of tossing a paper napkin, you'll have to use water + electricity + natural gas (based on our house: electricity to run a washing machine and natural gas for the water heater) + detergent to wash cloth napkins. Well, if you wash by hand, at least you'll skip electricity. But still water usage and sewage affect the environment, right?

Not that I'm trying to criticize you, because we've been contemplating to do the same thing

[zakity]

Yeah, but how much room does a few cloth napkins take up? And, you are already doing laundry. I haven't found any extra laundry really from switching to cloth things.

Paper napkins here are only for picking up gross things like cat puke or the like.

[cptacek]

Originally Posted by cschin4

Personally, much of the "green" movement is little more than multiple scams designed to make people "feel better" but accomplish nothing.
Sorry, I don't share your view that the planet is in danger. However, I do share your view that being frugal and efficient is simply good economics.

Ditto

[maat55]

Originally Posted by cschin4

Personally, much of the "green" movement is little more than multiple scams designed to make people "feel better" but accomplish nothing.
Sorry, I don't share your view that the planet is in danger. However, I do share your view that being frugal and efficient is simply good economics.

Ditto's

Our economy has become extremely dependent on the consumer continuing to spend and spend and spend. If folks start cutting back in a significant way, it would have a major impact on the overall health of our economy, though in the long run, it would turn out to be a better thing. There would be some short term pain for sure, though.

Steve, I think of this all the time. What would happen if everyone became as frugal as many on this forum? I feel guilty sometimes that, for me to stay busy, someone else has to splurge. Although, a very high percentage of my clients are wealthy. I think you are right that for everone to become healthy financilally, the country would go through a tough spell.

[cptacek]

Originally Posted by maat55

What would happen if everyone became as frugal as many on this forum?

they would raise the rates:
Recent Rain Has Wichita Considering Water Hike

[PrincessPerky]

Originally Posted by zakity

Yeah, but how much room does a few cloth napkins take up? And, you are already doing laundry. I haven't found any extra laundry really from switching to cloth things.

Paper napkins here are only for picking up gross things like cat puke or the like.

ditto..though I don't have cats

[cptacek]

Originally Posted by cschin4

Personally, much of the "green" movement is little more than multiple scams designed to make people "feel better" but accomplish nothing.

Case in point. We are looking at selling carbon credits off the land we just bought. The only thing we will have to do is keep the pasture in pasture and no-till the farmland. Things we were going to do anyway. So, we don't have to do anything different than what we planned, just document it, but some schlub from the city will pay good money for these carbon credits.

And if Congress passes the cap and trade thing, some business is going to have to pay money to buy these worthless-except-on-paper "credits".

[Sporkman]

Originally Posted by gamecock43

I think 'going green' is expensive. Its very expensive for industry, it's expensive for common folk. If I wanted curbside recycling pickup, I have to pay $30 every quarter of a year. Curbside recycling pickup is an oxymoron in itself because of the fuel that is used to do it.
Think fuel efficient cars, they are rising in price while the SUV is sinking in price.
Recycled roofing is more expensive than regular roofs.

'Going green' is a worthwhile cause, I gladly pay the extra $$ to leave this world a bit healthier, but it costs money.

It only appears to cost more, when in fact the costs are there regardless, except they're socialized (i.e. taxpayers pay to maintain & grow landfills, they pay for pollution cleanup, they pay for oil security via military, etc).

[cschin4]

I think there are many ways to EARN money during this present green hysteria. One must position oneself in the economy to maximize one's own income and resources. So, if green sells, then of course I will buy green stocks and invest in green companies as part of a good financial strategy.
However, I do not believe the planet is at risk, I do not believe that mankind is a parasite upon the earth, and I do not believe that 99% of the suggestions (soon to be forced upon as laws to control our lifestyles) accomplish anything other than warm fuzzies.
And, really the environmental movement is the new home of communism which will involve controlling every aspect of your life from what lightbulb you use, to how warm/cool you can keep your house, to what car you can drive, to how large your home can be and on and on and on. You should all be very afraid of this movement and the consequences of heading down this path. Of course, as already has been demonstrated, the rich politicians, movie stars and other well to do people are going to be exempt from living the life of the common man because they are so important.
This "carbon credit" nonsense is the absolute biggest scam I have ever heard. In fact, it is brilliant. Much like the empereror watching his invisible grand clothes being spun on the invisible looms.

[aida2003]

Originally Posted by zakity

Yeah, but how much room does a few cloth napkins take up? And, you are already doing laundry. I haven't found any extra laundry really from switching to cloth things.

Paper napkins here are only for picking up gross things like cat puke or the like.

Considering that some families like to cover their tables with paper (not us ) and reusing it, after switching to cloth covers for the table they'll take place in the laundry and you don't just throw them with your socks and jeans .

[Aleta]

I'm like another poster when it comes to not noticing a few extra napkins when you're already doing laundry anyway.

I've read alot about all of the Rain Forests being destroyed and that has always stayed with me. Many trees are taken down and then it disrupts the invironment and landscape. In different regions, leeaves from the trees are the animals food. Just my thoughts.

[Terin]

IF people would just realize the money they are spending isn't worth the paper its printed on..not backed by any gold/silver/even bronze lol then the world could be saved. IF beginning on ONE specific day everyone in the USA or any other country for that matter would STOP paying their bills we would be free from the crap. They cant reposes millions of homes. Unfortunatly there are the greedy out there that wouldn't let this happen. They would just keep paying their bills and gain more valuable property due to all the forclosures that they allowed to happen.