Relationship Question

[LivingAlmostLarge]

This is not a really financially based question, but it does have financially based implications. A friend (who was my bridesmaid in my wedding) and former roomie, has started dating a man 20 years older than her. She is 30 and he is just turned 50. He has been married, recently divorced. I am slightly worried about her getting serious with a man I'm not sure is really ready to have children and get remarried when he couldn't do it before.

But that aside, I think there are a lot of potential financial ramifications for marrying a spouse a lot older. Including having children so late in life, maybe like early to mid 50s or even 60s if they have 3-4 kids (she always wanted at least 3 kids). They are talking of moving in together, but I sort of feel like I should warn her against dating him.


Does anyone else have kids in their 50s? What's it like? Especially if you started having kids in your 50s? Financially I'm sure it's going to hurt to have to work until nearly 70 right? But anything else to know or is it okay?

What does she need to really consider? I think the guy is a nice guy. But sometimes he seems very mature. Yeah kick me I'm still 28.

[Seeker]

Things for her to consider:

1) If they do have children, she will be doing most of that work... he's not going to have the energy to be a caretaker and he will feel out-of-place in most of the school events. The mom is at a reasonable age and may end up doing all these tasks as well.

2) They may accidentally viewed as father/daughter especially down the line say when she's 40 and he's 60. And when the children are in their teens, he will be in his 70's....

3) Women have a greater life expectancy than men. She will most likely lose her hubby (20 years older than her?) unless his family medical history is a whole lot better than hers. She may end up being a caretaker for this man as well.

4) Why the divorce and why "recent"? One needs time to recover from a failed relationship. Could he be unable to deal with being alone and picking the first woman that comes along?

Those are the top concerns I'd have off the top of my head.

[rob62521]

I married a man 14 years older than I was. Before we married, we talked about everything. He was 43 and still lived at home. We decided due to the age difference and his age, not to have children because I would be the one doing most of it and if something happened, he didn't want to leave me trying to raise a family alone.

If she really wants this, she needs to have a major financial discussion with this gentleman. They need to be able to afford excellent life insurance because even if she has the first baby right away, it's still almost 20 years before that one is grown and there's college and expenses to consider.

On a personal note, my mom and dad were older when they had me. Not 50, but in their 40s. I was an accident. Both had been married before and both had children from previous marriages. I really felt like I missed out on stuff because my parents were so much older than everyone elses parents and my parents would work all day and then basically fall asleep in the chair watching T.V. They didn't have the time or energy for me to join girl scouts or do any of the after school activities. And we certainly didn't do mother daughter or father daughter activities because they didn't feel up to it. I'm in my 40s and spent the past few years looking after them the best I could as well as working. If your friend really wants kids, she better be prepared to be the parent who does the most and also will be able to look after the spouse if and when he declines.

[Sporkman]

Originally Posted by Seeker

If they do have children, she will be doing most of that work... he's not going to have the energy to be a caretaker..

That's what I was thinking. Taking care of young kids is exhausting at any age, but especially when you're over 40...

[ScrimpAndSave]

I don't know. My mother had me at 42 and my father was 46.

I am 27 and my father will be turning 74 in a few months.

He STILL runs circles around me.

It's pretty ignorant to say that she will be doing most of the work because he will be too tired...everyone's situation is different.

[rob62521]

OK, it's a sweeping generalization...sorry, Scrimpandsave. I've seen it happen a few times.

And good for your parents and you...glad things worked out and your parents are healthy and vital. Sounds like they have taken good care of themselves which is wonderful. Many folks don't, however.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by ScrimpAndSave

I don't know. My mother had me at 42 and my father was 46.

I am 27 and my father will be turning 74 in a few months.

He STILL runs circles around me.

It's pretty ignorant to say that she will be doing most of the work because he will be too tired...everyone's situation is different.

"Ignorant" is a pretty strong word and not really fair; the OP was asking about concerns of the age difference and she needs to consider that concern; we are talking about a person 20 years older than she is and the "energy" factor is a valid concern.

One of my brothers (47 YO) has a pre-teen in school and he's constantly saying "no more kids." I'm not sure of my SIL's age, but probably late 30's or early 40's.

Yes every person is different, and your situation is not the same as having one parent 20 years older than the other parent.

Both your folks had you when they were older, but what would have been the situation if she was 42 and he 62? Do you think the work put in would have been the same from the 20 years older parent?

At any rate, the concern is valid.

[Bluezy]

I had my CJ when I was 42. He is now 4 1/2 yrs old and our mum/son relationship is trusting and happy. At 42 I was wise enough to know how to approach parenthood. I was not ready for parenthood in my 20's or 30's.

Your friend's situation appears different. She might be having thoughts of a family that includes children, but sometimes in older man/younger woman situations the man has other thoughts. He might want to regress and feel that a younger woman would be his way to regain youth. You can never tell

I would recommend to your friend to take her time, proceed with caution, enjoy the relationship and see what time reveals.

[cschin4]

Life doesn't always happen in an ideal world! Of course, there are considerations no matter what one's life is. As for being "too old" for kids, well sometimes you get them when you get them! And, in reality we all just have to take life one day at a time.
Of course, she should plan on getting some good life insurance, especially if children come along. And, there are issues to consider with an aging spouse. We all do get older, you can't fight the clock. But, that doesn't mean she cannot have many happy years with him either.

[LuxLiving]

If they are U.S.A. based, and he has worked and they have children and he passes away while they are under age she'll be able to collect SSI payments on them. I second the life insurance though and the concerns of possibly doing more of the parenting work.

[ScrimpAndSave]

It's not unfair - it is the truth.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I am very worried about the recentness of his divorce. It's final actually in July 2008. And yes they are moving rather quickly, talking of moving in together in July.

I am definitely mentioning drawing up a cohabitation agreement, her last relationship, they were about to buy a house together to live in, and I mentioned a cohabitation agreement before they bought.

She brought it up, and he said why, and she said then let's get married. He said no way, and she said when? He said he didn't know and she ended it because he wasn't willing to commit.

I think it's fair to say that someone 55 usually does have less energy than someone 35. And comparing person to themself 20 years younger, typically you were in better shape, more energy, etc.

And yes I know she really wants kids. Like 3 or 4. And she said he's said he's willing to quickly have children with her. He said he wasn't ready with his ex-wife, or mature enough. I'm not sure if he's pulling her leg.

And no I haven't said anything yet, but I will be bringing up for sure the cohabitation agreement.

[jIM_Ohio]

I had my first kids when I was 35. I am also 35 now, use that for whatever this advice is worth (probably worth less than you paid for it).

There are three sides to this. The majority think this is a bad idea, my thoughts were similar to scrimpandsaves.

It's pretty ignorant to say that she will be doing most of the work because he will be too tired...everyone's situation is different.

What I would add is this. Havings kids later in life is more profitable. By a long shot- not even close (IMO).

I have significant savings set aside already at age 35. If I have to ramp savings down to pay for kids stuff, I can afford to do so and still use the compounding of present savings to keep me ahead of the majority.

In addition to that the financial risks being mentioned do not discuss hedging those risks (LIFE INSURANCE). Just hedge the financial side of issues with a 20 year term policy when each kid is born (maybe a 15 year or 20 year term) for around 200-300k.

What appears to be the problem?
I would advise OP (LAL) to be a sister and make a serious comment, but also to be supportive. Do not put in a "divide" just to say "I told you so". If crisis hits in 5-10 years, your sister will need her family then more than she does now.

[AmbitiousSaver]

My Dad was 41 when I was born... I appreciated his age cause he is a lot older and more even tempered than I heard he was in his younger years

But he also had a lot of baggage... and my family got divorced when I was 8... so I never got any help when it came to college. He retired from a government job... collects a pension... and is still working. But because all four kids are out of the house and no longer reliant on him, I know he's doing a little better - that is, until he was diagnosed with a 2nd brain tumor... but this time cancerous.

So, I don't know... I wish he was younger when they had me cause I feel like "not much time is left" and I don't have any memories of playing with him. He's a great dad but more like an advisor since he had so many health problems in his older years and he always worked 2-3 jobs so in order for me to see him I'd have to go to his office after school and wait with him till I either got tired and took the bus home OR waited till 10 or 11 pm to go home with him.

DH and I had kids much younger and it is still tough financially...but I see a light at the end of the tunnel because in 10 years the older two will be close to getting ready for college. So by 40 or 50, we'll have no kids at home and can "play" later.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

I may be in a minority, but I never even thought that people who are not yet legally divorced should even be dating. Yet this guy is getting ready to move in with someone and he won't get the divorce until July? You first said "recently divorced," but it doesn't sound like he is divorced at all. Even "legally separated" is still married.

Have they been dating long---As in while the guy and his wife were still living together and before the process of divorce was begun? That would be a big red flag to me.

Do you think your friend knows what financial commitments this guy comes with at the present, or after his divorce? I think she should know before moving in together. Also understanding how he intends to and actually does follow through on those commitments are the kinds of things I would want to know about a person before moving in with them, much less having kinds with them. She can learn a little bit about what life might be like with him long term by looking at his present and at his record, so to speak. (Not to say that people cannot change.)

All other things aside, I do not think that being 50 precludes thorough, energetic, quality parenting, nor do I think that 20 years age difference is insurmountable. I think matching values and character is far more important.

[PrincessPerky]

Some old folk are not as old as others...and 40 something is a far cry from 50 something. Older does tend to mean less energy, but that isn't always a terrible thing (not having the energy to stay up till 3 am might make for a more intelligent bedtime!)

and... Many people in their 20s fall asleep watching TV every night instead of doing scouts, or other activities with their kids. The type of parent means more than the age.

Unfortunately without a crystal ball we can't know what type of parent the old fellow or the younger friend will be. Assuming all is good, and they are in love, buying extra life insurance is about all one can do IMO.

Though if she really wants a family of 3 or 4 she might want to consider adopting...sometimes much faster to get 3 or 4 than the old fashioned route. (especially since medically the ability to create a kid does drop with age)

[LivingAlmostLarge]

He began divorce proceedings in January, they began dating in like february/march of this year. And I guess they are moving fast because she wants to get married and have kids.

I did hint at the financial repercussions of a divorce, she said he's gotta give her a large settlement, they have to sell the house. He moved out in January, so no he's not living with his ex.

I don't know how financial stable he will be because of the divorce, but money isn't a reason to not get married (yeah i'm a romantic).

In fact I'm not sure whether to tell her to get a prenup because is her income considered for alimony? They were married quite a few years.

I know enough to suggest a cohabitation agreement, especially after last time. But she's equally romantic like me, and my DH said to tell her not to buy the house with the her ex-boyfriend, which is why I told her to get a signed, binding, legal agreement before they did it (we were both stupid romantics). They were already house shopping too!

But what repercussions can it have to marry a divorced man? At least he has no kids. And if they have kids then he'll have to support them right?

Is it wrong to suggest a prenup too?

[vsjhoc]

Originally Posted by Joan.of.the.Arch

I may be in a minority, but I never even thought that people who are not yet legally divorced should even be dating. Yet this guy is getting ready to move in with someone and he won't get the divorce until July? You first said "recently divorced," but it doesn't sound like he is divorced at all. Even "legally separated" is still married.

Have they been dating long---As in while the guy and his wife were still living together and before the process of divorce was begun? That would be a big red flag to me.

Do you think your friend knows what financial commitments this guy comes with at the present, or after his divorce? I think she should know before moving in together. Also understanding how he intends to and actually does follow through on those commitments are the kinds of things I would want to know about a person before moving in with them, much less having kinds with them. She can learn a little bit about what life might be like with him long term by looking at his present and at his record, so to speak. (Not to say that people cannot change.)

All other things aside, I do not think that being 50 precludes thorough, energetic, quality parenting, nor do I think that 20 years age difference is insurmountable. I think matching values and character is far more important.

If you're in the minority, then I'm right there with ya. Agree 1000% with everything you said.

[vsjhoc]

Originally Posted by LivingAlmostLarge

Is it wrong to suggest a prenup too?

I can think of no situation where a prenup would be inappropriate.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Money issues are among the top reasons why couples have problems that lead to divorce. Poor judgment, poor self control, over controllingness, impulsivity, or inability to work with the other on money matters can break up any relationship. That is why I think understanding his money situation IS important in deciding to move in with and/or marry him.

You know--like does the divorcing couple have credit card bills to pay off, cards that he was 95% responsible for by over-buying electronics, or camera equipment, or woodworking supplies, or even charging up things for a business, or whatever?

See, I think what bills a person has, how they came about those bills, and how they intend to honor their debt says a lot about them. I would not consider a living-together or marriage to someone that I did not know these things about. It is not about how much money he has. It is about how honorable he is with his money dealings. Actually it goes both ways. He should know the same about her before a commitment. It is just that with a longer life history and a longer history of being financially bound with another person he may have more to reveal than she does. They should both have their eyes open.

Sorry for all the "shoulds."