If total income is $80,000, then is $1,500 mortgage doable?

[ScrimpAndSave]

1) save 20% of paychecks. 10% to retirement and 10% to house fund.

I currently take home $1,156 every two weeks and save $700 of it.

2) keep expenses and debt low. Start repaying the debt now (why wait). Paying this down now saves you money and would allow a larger house payment because debt load would be lower.

I am debt free. Any debt there is - is in his name...we are not married as of yet.

3) pay cash for wedding and do not let wedding push debt higher.

I am only paying cash for the wedding - have an ING account that is open only for that.

4) do everything you can now to maximize fiance's earning power when he passes bar (maybe be flexible and you work 2 jobs now, so he studies and aces bar exam in a year or two).

Yeah, I might be able to do this.

[tripods68]

On $8000 net take-home pay household budget:
Fill in the blanks

$2500 a month student loans
+$1500 Mortgage payment
+$400 PITI
+$500 Food
+$300 Utility/Garbage
+$70 Verizon Family Plan (Unlimited calls)
+$350 Gas
+$100 car maintenance
+$250 car insurance
+$150 entertainment
+$200 vacation
+$180 cable/internet
+$150 Clothing Allowance
+$450 car loans ($25K new purchase)
+ Term Insurance/Disability
+ Retirement Contributions + IRA (Pre & Post tax contributions)
+ Credit Payments (if any)
+ Raising a baby (Priceless) NOT!


Estimated cost $7100 monthly expenses. Of course, I don't know how you all live your life. But this gives you an idea. You should develop a budget first see if you can afford having a mortgage with your student loan.

If you do, try owning a condo first below $150K or perhaps renting for the next few years until you solidify your finances. However, it is scary owning a home with all those expenses when one create a budget. Then they realize how much they don't have or are living paycheck to paycheck. Here's another option, postpone owning a house, until you payoff all your student loans. That's really your biggest hurdle financially that you cannot overlook and must overcome IMO. Good luck

[ScrimpAndSave]

Oh wait a sec...the $1500 would include the PITI...not just the mortgage.

Cars a paid off. $500 for food for the two of us it way too much. We both live within 10 miles of our jobs, so the monthly gas payment is much lower than $350. I spend $600 a year on car insurance.

And once again...nooo babies.

[jIM_Ohio]

Originally Posted by ScrimpAndSave

1) save 20% of paychecks. 10% to retirement and 10% to house fund.

I currently take home $1,156 every two weeks and save $700 of it.

2) keep expenses and debt low. Start repaying the debt now (why wait). Paying this down now saves you money and would allow a larger house payment because debt load would be lower.

I am debt free. Any debt there is - is in his name...we are not married as of yet.

3) pay cash for wedding and do not let wedding push debt higher.

I am only paying cash for the wedding - have an ING account that is open only for that.

4) do everything you can now to maximize fiance's earning power when he passes bar (maybe be flexible and you work 2 jobs now, so he studies and aces bar exam in a year or two).

Yeah, I might be able to do this.

Maybe I am missing some posts in the times I check back, but you are clearly asking some questions, but not giving whole context to the problems which need to be solved. You need a full plan and are only looking at one piece of the plan 2-3 years out while not disclosing all aspects of the plan/needs in each thread (this is second or third thread related to this, right?).

What are savings levels (for retirement and non retirement accounts). In the non retirement accounts, how much of that will be left after the wedding is paid for?

You need to outline the WHOLE plan to get where you are going, and not try to solve a budget problem which is 2-3 years away from happening.

In addition you are looking at items as "his and hers", yet are talking about getting married and sharing a mortgage (and life) together. I would tackle the debt now if you are saving as much as you suggest (because I doubt you could beat the debt cost in a savings account over a 2 year period). In addition the debt payoff would allow you to afford more house in 2 years anyway (better ratios).

[jIM_Ohio]

Originally Posted by tripods68

Of course, I don't know how you all live your life. But this gives you an idea. You should develop a budget first see if you can afford having a mortgage with your student loan.

If you do, try owning a condo first below $150K or perhaps renting for the next few years until you solidify your finances. However, it is scary owning a home with all those expenses when one create a budget. Then they realize how much they don't have or are living paycheck to paycheck. Here's another option, postpone owning a house, until you payoff all your student loans. That's really your biggest hurdle financially that you cannot overlook and must overcome IMO. Good luck

I don't agree with first part (in the context given) but do agree with most of second part (in context given).

OP should do a few things.

1) marriage is stressful. Even if you love the person and trust them, I think most married people will agree the first 3-6 years of marriage are more difficult than years 7-death. I became a much better husband after around 5 years (and that is not because I learned to say "yes dear" more).

2) moving is stressful. Regardless of situation, I would not recomend moving often. High expenses, lots of work, and quite stressful.

3) a new job is stressful. learning new rules, processes, procedures and people. Takes around 2-3 years to get comfortable with a new boss. Add to that the issue that new Lawyers work more as well.

Account for this stress financially by staying debt free (pay off student loans, avoid house purchase to lock you into any long term decision) and raise cash as much as possible.

[ScrimpAndSave]

I guess that is what we will do. I've mentioned before - my dad has invited us to live with him for two years. I live with my father now and pay rent...so we would just up the rent (it would still be far less than living in an apt).

[DebbieL]

I'm going to be the one person to say I think it's wise for you NOT to pay off his student loans for him. They are his, and you aren't even married. Things happen, people break-up, etc. I would not put one penny towards his debt when you aren't even married yet. My DH and I don't combine debts or anything and we ARE married, lol. His debt is his. We split bills in our own way (I pay rent, he pays food and utilities). We both keep our finances separate - and we are the happiest couple I know. We don't (and never will) fight over money.

Good luck with all your plans!

[ScrimpAndSave]

Debbie, thanks so much for your post...

I have no idea helping him with his debt (once we are married). But for now...I don't think I should be the one working 2-3 jobs to put him through school. I we were married - it would be a different story.

And he has $20,000 in cc debt. The cards are cut up and he does not use them anymore. Should I help him contribute to this debt monthly? When he graduates and we get married - I know we are going to attack the $20,000 in CC debt aggressively because it is the only cc debt that we will have.

Until then, do you think I should contribute at this time (being unmarried)?

I just don't think it is smart. I feel like I should save everything I can (for the wedding and house)...and every few months I will give him $500-$1000 to help him pay rent and utilities when he is a little strapped...that is what I am doing now.

[tripods68]

When I got married, I didn't want my DW to burden her with my student loans and credit card debt. I paid it on my own within a year. And Yes, I agree completely with Debbie, it's really not your business to pay his debt. It is after all - all in his name. Even when you get married, its his responsibility. He should pay it off. Keep your account seperate. It's also a lot easier to breakaway financially in case your relationship does not work or you never get married.

[disneysteve]

Once you are married, his debt is your debt and your debt is his debt. You cease being 2 individuals and become one couple. When we got married, I was in my last year of residency with over $100,000 in student loans. It didn't matter how much I earned and how much she earned. Having to make the loan payments affected both of us equally because it played a big part in how much we had available to spend and save. I have no clue how we could possibly have kept the debt separate from the household finances.

[DebbieL]

That's not how things work in my household Disneysteve. We keep our finances separate, and it works well for us. We are probably the happiest couple I know actually. I have the bills I pay, he has the bills he pays. I have no debt currently, and he has debt for his vehicle. He makes those payments himself. We each have our own savings accounts, etc. I cannot imagine ever enmeshing my finances with someone else. I've just always been this way. I think both of us like to feel totally in control of our own finances, so it works very well for us.

I can't stand the thought of having to clear my purchases with someone else or ask permission to do something. I also think that if we mingled our money I might start feeling upset if DH buys the 20th unneeded DVD that year, etc. We just don't get these little resentments building up that way (not saying you do - I'm sure there are many couples who manage these things just fine - it just isn't for us).

A few weeks ago I bought an electric bicycle. It’s one that rides and looks just like a regular bike, but if you want a bit of help on the hills or for speed you can use the motor to assist you. I’m using it to go to work and school since I sold my car last month. It cost me $1300 plus tax. I like being able to just do things like that without having to clear it with someone else (who may or may not see the benefits of such a purchase in the same way that I do). It is my own savings I’m using. If I want to spend money on something major, I don’t want to feel like I have to “ask”. DH feels exactly the same way.

I’m not sure where my feelings came from because to be honest, my parents have been married for 54 years now and everything is combined for them. They never fought about money, but my dad is the mellowest most easy going person in the world, so that probably helps, lol.

[rooskers]

DebbieL

That sounds like a wonderful plan. I think from now on my wife and I will seperate our finances. With what she makes and I make it would be much better. I am going to have a New York steak tonight, expensive bottle of wine, and maybe get a massage. My wife I think will be lucky to be able to afford a glass of water and if she is lucky I might give her a saltine of mine. I like a nice hot shower when I wake up in the morning but my wife will have to do without because she can't afford her portion of the water bill. I think I will drive my new BMW to work because I can afford one but my wife will have to take the bus if she wants to go anywhere.

Ok so I am taking this over the top. It seems to me seperate finances work only if both people are working and make a similar wage. If one stays home to watch the children then you can't seperate finances. Also what happens if you save for retirement and he doesn't. At age 65 are you going to retire and at the same time tell him sorry hun you didn't save guess you will be working till you die. If he doesn't work are you going to divorce him or kick him out because he can't afford his portion. I guess I believe at some level a couples finances can never truly be seperated. Yes you can have seperate spending accounts for things you want but to seperate all your finances seems crazy to me.

If you aren't married and a commitment "till death do us apart" is not made then certainly those debt obligations of his are not her responsibility. However if she is truly commited to him then she can certainly help him but only to the point that if he left she wasn't financially ruined herself. Once they are married iit does become her responsibility too. This doesn't mean she should have to work her butt off and he can do nothing but it means as a "team" they should tackle the problem together.

[ScrimpAndSave]

I wish I could help him with his CC debt...but if I did, it would totally wipe out he $4,000 that I have currently saved for our wedding/EF/house.

[disneysteve]

DebbieL, it sounds like that plan works well for you, and that's terrific, but I can't imagine ever living that way. If I wanted to be in total control of everything, I would have stayed single. Virtually everything we do is joint to some extent. How do you pay for vacations, for example, or dinners out, or new furniture or holiday gifts or groceries? Do you have children? If so, who is responsible for child-related expenses? What about charity? We belong to a synagogue. Would we each pay our own portion of membership dues? What about home repairs? If your finances are totally separate, does that mean you have no say in what he does and vice-versa? What if he decides to paint the family room purple? Even if he is paying for the paint, I'm sure you'd want to be involved in the decision.

If my wife decided to sell her van and get something else, I would absolutely be involved in that decision, as I should be. We each have a vehicle, but sometimes I drive hers and other times she drives mine. It all depends on where we're going and which vehicle we need at the time. So if we kept things separate and she decided to ditch the van and buy a SmartCar, that would be a serious problem.

Again, it is great if it works for you, but there is not a chance we could function like that.

[maat55]

Originally Posted by DebbieL

That's not how things work in my household Disneysteve. We keep our finances separate, and it works well for us. We are probably the happiest couple I know actually. I have the bills I pay, he has the bills he pays. I have no debt currently, and he has debt for his vehicle. He makes those payments himself. We each have our own savings accounts, etc. I cannot imagine ever enmeshing my finances with someone else. I've just always been this way. I think both of us like to feel totally in control of our own finances, so it works very well for us.

I can't stand the thought of having to clear my purchases with someone else or ask permission to do something. I also think that if we mingled our money I might start feeling upset if DH buys the 20th unneeded DVD that year, etc. We just don't get these little resentments building up that way (not saying you do - I'm sure there are many couples who manage these things just fine - it just isn't for us).

A few weeks ago I bought an electric bicycle. It’s one that rides and looks just like a regular bike, but if you want a bit of help on the hills or for speed you can use the motor to assist you. I’m using it to go to work and school since I sold my car last month. It cost me $1300 plus tax. I like being able to just do things like that without having to clear it with someone else (who may or may not see the benefits of such a purchase in the same way that I do). It is my own savings I’m using. If I want to spend money on something major, I don’t want to feel like I have to “ask”. DH feels exactly the same way.

I’m not sure where my feelings came from because to be honest, my parents have been married for 54 years now and everything is combined for them. They never fought about money, but my dad is the mellowest most easy going person in the world, so that probably helps, lol.

Call it what you want, but you two are just living together and are not a couple. I guess the real question to ask is: How do you two handle a partners financial crisis or share retiremant expenses? Is one of you going to be wealthy and the other poor? I'm not judging, just wondering.

I'm guessing there is a certain amount of merger involved.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I think Debbie's situation works for her and I'm sure many others follow a similar situation. I do however, believe there are caveats to her situation. And I'm sure she'll address them when they occur.

The one situation I see happening with not ever mixing finances, is what happens if one spouse gets disabled and can't work? Or if they have children and one spouse chooses to stay at home? Or what happens if one spouse is laid off? And they can no longer afford their portion of the bills?

I think that it's not necessary to share everything (I do but heck it's habit), but if you are older and get involved with someone I can see how DIFFICULT it could be. Even in the case with the OP.

NO she should not pay off his student loans or CC before marriage. However, upon marriage, she can't exactly expect him to pay for that out of his income complete and not have their finances mix. That's a lot of student debt. If they wanted to get rid of it fast, say she supports the household 100% and his income goes to debt.

But then after 5 years what if they split up and his debt is 100% paid off and the money she spent "supporting" the household is gone?

It's not always a black and white answer. So it really depends on the couple and situation they are in.

My in-laws never mesh finances. It does NOT make for a happy marriage to be constantly bean counting.

And how they paid for their kids? They often times didn't or gave two separate gifts. We got $2k, $1k from each parent for our wedding present. Check from my MIL and Check from my FIL.

Trust me it was a bit weird, I don't care how "happy" the marriage is. But they are like roommates with special benefits.

[DebbieL]

Maat55

Well, I’m not sure where anyone gets off telling me that DH and I are not a couple because we keep our own finances. That was a pretty stupid comment, and you are totally wrong. I guess if someone chooses to live differently than you in a way that doesn’t suit your narrow-minded definitions they are not a “couple”. The number one thing MOST couples fight over is money – that is not an issue for us at all. As I said, we are both extremely happy in our relationship which is more than I can say for lots of the other couples I know. It works for us, and that is what matters. I don’t frankly care what you think of it, but I did find your comment extremely rude.

DisneySteve,

As for the things you mentioned, I am solely responsible for whether I want to buy a car or not (I’ve actually gone green and sold my vehicle), as is he. I really don’t object to whatever he wants to buy as long as he’s pulling his weight with his financial obligations. This may not work for everyone, but he and I are very similar in our thinking about finances, and we are both pretty sensible and like to save. We just see no need to have to ask anyone else to spend our own money.

I have a child (15 years old). We have no joint children (and no plans to – I’m almost 38 and have no desire to do that again, lol). I would never expect him to pay for things for my kid, although he chooses to do so sometimes. I appreciate the fact that he’s good to my kid.

For things like repainting a room or renovating (which we don’t really do because we rent – houses are $600k here), we would both agree on how we wanted to do it and probably would split the costs (or if just one of us wanted to change things, but the other wasn’t opposed to it the person who wanted to do it might just pay). I would approach him and say something like, “ I’ve been thinking about getting some new furniture for the living room. What do you think of me buying a new set?” The funny thing is DH usually says he’s been thinking the exact same thing. We seem to be “in tune” on most things. DH actually just bought a nice new TV for our bedroom (one of those LCD HDTV widescreen ones). I love it – and he paid for it which is just fine with me, lol. The whole “I’m going to paint purple because I paid for it” just doesn’t happen with us. Like I said, our separate finances AVOIDS fights – it has never once been the cause of one.

For vacations it just depends. I’ve paid for trips, he’s paid for trips. We’ve split costs. We never nickel and dime each other (this goes for our day to day life and vacations). I might pay the hotel and he buys the food, or I’ll pick up some meals and he’ll pick up others, etc. I don’t worry about if I paid $200 more or anything like that. We don’t split things down the middle or anything. He was unemployed for a while and I just paid some of the bills he normally covers during that time, so we do help each other out when needed, but generally we keep the money separate. I don’t keep a tally sheet and ask him for his share or something. It just kind of works out.

We don’t worry about keeping things “even” or splitting costs down the middle. When I made more than him, I took on the majority of the expenses. Now that he’s making more, we may decide to switch around the bills so he pays a higher portion. It isn’t a huge issue for us. I figure it all works out in the long run.

It’s funny, because the way we do things seems like the most natural thing in the world to me, I never would have imagined that others would find it so odd. I know other couples who have their finances separate too, so we aren’t really oddballs among my acquaintances.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by DebbieL

I am solely responsible for whether I want to buy a car or not

DH actually just bought a nice new TV for our bedroom (one of those LCD HDTV widescreen ones).

Debbie, please don't take my comments as criticisms - they are not. It is just that your system is completely foreign to our way of thinking. I can't imagine living that way.

Some marriage counselors actually have a term for arrangements like yours - married singles. People who are married and living life together but in many ways continue to function as if they were still single. This might refer to keeping the finances separate. It might mean taking separate vacations. It might include sleeping in separate bedrooms. It isn't good or bad. It is just a descriptive term. It works wonderfully for some people, like you and your husband. For others, like my wife and me, it would be a disaster.

Take the car. You say you are solely responsible for what you drive. That would never work for us. Why? Because I have a sedan and my wife has a minivan. We take the van whenever we go shopping for larger items and when we vacation because we need the space, like when we drive to Florida each year. If she was in charge and suddenly decided she was tired of having a van and switched to a sedan or smaller, we'd no longer be able to travel as we do without renting a vehicle. We wouldn't even be able to do certain shopping trips because we'd have no way to get the stuff home.

As for that new TV, I'm glad you like it but what would happen if you didn't? He went out without any input from you and bought something that you'd be stuck using. It would never occur to me to do something like that to my wife.

We just see no need to have to ask anyone else to spend our own money.

I think this is really the key point where we differ. I don't think of anything as my "own money" nor does she. It is all OUR money and we work together to decide how it gets spent and how we will meet our future goals. Not saying that is right or wrong or the only way to be - clearly it isn't. But I really can't imagine doing it any other way.

[maat55]

[

QUOTE=DebbieL;167527]Maat55

Well, I’m not sure where anyone gets off telling me that DH and I are not a couple because we keep our own finances. That was a pretty stupid comment, and you are totally wrong. I guess if someone chooses to live differently than you in a way that doesn’t suit your narrow-minded definitions they are not a “couple”. The number one thing MOST couples fight over is money – that is not an issue for us at all. As I said, we are both extremely happy in our relationship which is more than I can say for lots of the other couples I know. It works for us, and that is what matters. I don’t frankly care what you think of it, but I did find your comment extremely rude.

I regret my post Debbie, after re reading it, it seems harsh and judgemental. It's not exactly what I meant to express. I can concede that two people can live together, in some degree, with different financial goals and spending habits.

When it comes to my situation, because I have changed my views on money a great deal, my wife and I are completely different when it comes to money. Trying to apply your method of management would be hard on our finances, but doesn't mean it is to yours.

Because so many things in a household have to be shared and agreed on, leaves me wondering how you tackle this problem.

But again I apologize, I was wrong.

[rooskers]

Ok after reading your last post it seems as if your finances are not really seperate after all. Meaning that if he made a lot less money then you would pay for a majority of the bills. If your finances were totally seperate you wouldn't know that you made more money and what he could afford and wouldn't even really talk about who pays for what. In essence at some point you guys talk about your money and make a mutual decision on where that money goes (you said every bill is not split exactly down the middle so this statement I will take to be true). TV, bikes, and other stuff is what I call non essential spending and many couples keep those type of purchases seperate. I have friends who combine their money for the bills (house payment, rent, etc...) but agree on a percentage that goes into their own seperate accounts that they have complete control over. You guys have seperate accounts but since you still discuss how the essentials are paid for you work together. Not my style but if it works for you great. I am still curious about how you guys work your retirement funding. What if he saves almost nothing and you save a lot. If that happens are you going to tell him tough luck in retirement or start sharing your money at that point.