Religion & Finances

[maat55]

Do any of you struggle with finances from a religious stand point?

I myself, have struggled forever with this question. Sometimes I think because I am so focused on managing finances and building wealth, that maybe i'm crossing the line of worshipping mammoth, so to speak.

On one hand, I tell myself that i'm doing the responsable thing by providing for myself and family and preparing for future hardships. Then, I realize also that, by worldly standards, I may be the rich guy Jesus talked about.

The bible seems to go both ways on some subjects leaving me confused. I don't consider myself lusting for wealth, but i'm not ultimately the judge.

I'm looking for insight.

[LuxLiving]

I think some of the people who struggle with this issue (myself included) are those of us who have a natural affinity for finances or numbers (I'm an accounting major) or we have feelings of insecurity, and it becomes a hobby. Like any hobby it can get out of hand. You could decide to devote a number of hours a week to tithe your hobby to help those who are barely scraping by - teaching them how to balance a checkbook, start a savings account, make a budget.

You could decide to devote those same hours to doing something entirely different with your time that you feel God would have you do. Such as tithing a minimum of 4 hours a month at a homeless shelter, or building a ramp for a disabled person, or sewing blankets for preemies. Or, wherever your other interests lay.

I think we can get too focused on finances and forget to keep our lives in balance. Another way of looking at it might be to limit the number of hours a day or week or month you will spend doing financial things.

I do believe we are to look after our finances. Stewardship is a major theme in the Scriptures. We have, not to care only for ourselves, but we have, and manage in order to be able to help others.

On the feelings of insecurity, what does Scripture say? He doesn't want us to live in a spirit of fear. I think being accountable for our finances and staying on top of it, while understanding where our supply comes from works to eliminate that fear.

[kork13]

I was gonna say something, but I'll simply agree whole-heartedly with Lux... I pay tithing to my church as if it's just another expense, then otherwise it's about helping people as you can.

Another thing that my church stresses is the importance of living responsibly. Most everything that comes up on these boards, my church tells people we should be doing--minimize debt, keep money set aside for emergencies, live within your means, etc. If you are personally responsible and put together, you are better able to help the people around you.

[cschin4]

I think managing your affairs well is a good trait and attribute. In fact, the Bible had much to say to those who didn't manage their finances and talents well. There are many parables from the "Parable of the Lamps" where the women were waiting for the bridegroom. Those who prepared by bringing enough oil and being wise were commended and the others cast out. The ones who didn't plan tried to ask of those who did and insisted that those who prepared gave them what they had! But, they were told no, they didn't deserve a part in what the others had prepared for.
Also, I would refer you to the Parable of the Talents. He who had 10 used it wisely and gained 10 more. He who had 2 did the same and earned 10 more. The man with the 1 talent hid it and just returned it to the master. The master was furious and took his one talent and gave it to the one who had 10. So, even though the man with the talent didn't lose it, neither did he use his talents either.
In addition, those who have wealth and abundance are also called upon to help the poor and indigent as well. We should do the former without neglecting the latter.

[maat55]

I certainly believe in tithing and personal responsibilty, but what is the line between providing and storing treasures. Jesus said, it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to heaven. The bible also say's: Don't store up treasures on earth, where they collect dust, but in heaven.

IMO, I don't posess a treasure, but in reallity, I'm in the wealthiest 5% in the world. I store wealth for security, but is it wrong to use money for security in place of God?

[cschin4]

IMO, I don't posess a treasure, but in reallity, I'm in the wealthiest 5% in the world. I store wealth for security, but is it wrong to use money for security in place of God?

If you are in the wealthiest 5% you do possess a "treasure". And, it is wrong to use money as your security and rely on it because in reality you could die tomorrow and of what good is it? So, you obviously have wealth and therefore have the means to help many people in your path in life.
And, there were wealthy men in the Bible, Solomon, David, etc. They were not told to spend their entire kingdoms and live in a cave but they were expected to manage their affairs in a wise way.
However, wealth often becomes a God to us. It can makes us believe that we are somehow better or more worthy than others. It can make us believe that we somehow "deserve" it more than someone else and quickly does take the place of God in our lives.

[cschin4]

I try to think of it in this way. When you die, what are the things about your life that really mattered? Will it matter if you had the latest widget? Will people or your family remember that about you? Or , will they remember that you coached the softball team, helped at the Food bank, traveled and helped missionaries, etc. Your choice.

[kork13]

I guess that comes down to a personal choice. Giving money (to your church, other charities, etc.) is probably the simplest way to provide for others. I personally see the line as whether I am willing (and do) give/provide assistance to those who are in need of it. If ever I value my money so much that I'm unwilling to use it to benefit the people around me, that's when I've got problems.

[cschin4]

I agree. I think money is a tool and not an end unto itself. But, there I see nothing wrong with enjoying your money and spending it on yourself and family. However, I also believe in tithing to the church. My church helps many people and also spiritually "feeds" me as well. So, I do feel a sense of responsiblity in giving adequate amounts to fund the church, not just pocket change.

[annabellelees]

One way to think about is if you invest time and thought into your finances, then in the long run, your mind will be more free for other things.

[sweeps]

Originally Posted by maat55

The bible seems to go both ways on some subjects leaving me confused.

Take any position you like, there will be a dozen verses somewhere in the bible to support it.

[maat55]

I'm not sure what the purpose is for the human experience. It's not my intention to become an Vanderbuilt or Rockefeller. I'm content with the life I have, though I would like for it to be less stressful. I have compassion for those who are in need that cannot provide for themselves and will help if I can.

It's hard to weed out the scammers, so we tend to help less than we can. Some people strive to be rich for lustful reasons and some just get rich on accident while helping others. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but it helps my perspective of why I save money. I guess how you choose to use the wealth is more important than the persuit ultimatly, I hope.

[Scanner]

poverty does not equal piety

[cschin4]

Take any position you like, there will be a dozen verses somewhere in the bible to support it.


How does the Bible "go both ways"? In no way has it ever been commended to hoard one's wealth and to pursue riches for the sake of itself. I think it is pretty clear that we can and should enjoy what we have and be thankful but to also share and think of others.

[rob62521]

I agree with many who posted saying there needs to be a happy medium. Being Lutheran and thinking about Martin Luther, he often would say we should think and use our heads. So, if reducing debt, living a responsible life, and helping others isn't using one's gray cells, I'm not sure what is. I think the temptation is to only think about money or things is where there is a problem and putting money before God is the sin. And of course, being self centered and selfish would also fall into the sinful category.

[sweeps]

Originally Posted by cschin4

How does the Bible "go both ways"? In no way has it ever been commended to hoard one's wealth and to pursue riches for the sake of itself. I think it is pretty clear that we can and should enjoy what we have and be thankful but to also share and think of others.

Look at several posts just in this thread alone. Many have interpreted the helping-the-poor edict to mean people should help themselves become rich so they and their children and their children's children don't become poor and a burden on society, and also so they will have accumulated enough wealth to help others -- but later.

Contrast that with another interpretation that says we should be living poor. We should not be accumulating wealth at all.

[maat55]

Lot, was considered to be wealthy and favored by God. Many preachers are wealthy and are not condemned by their piers for it. But again, the bible say's not to store up treasures on earth. The bible gives examples of how not to be foolish with money. I see room for contridiction.

This all began because I have a deep down fear of wealth, but at the same time I feel that my use of money in the past was foolish, where now I choose to be frugal and responsible.

[FrugalFish]

I'm certainly no religious scholar, but my own take on religion and money is that you can't allow treasures and money to own you-- to steal that part of your soul that is your humanity. Money is a tool, nothing more and nothing less, you are not defined by it unless you allow it to define you.

[LuxLiving]

maat55, have you done a google search on "stewardship scriptures"? Might prove a helpful study to you.


An oldie, but a goody...

“Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store”

Deuteronomy 28:5

"Obedience brings a blessing on all the provisions which our industry earns for us. That which comes in and goes out at once, like fruit in the basket which is for immediate use, shall be blest; and that which is laid by with us for a longer season shall equally receive a blessing.

Perhaps ours is a handbasket portion. We have a little for breakfast, and a scanty bite for dinner in a basket when we go out to do our work in the morning. This is well, for the blessing of God is promised to the basket.

If we live from hand to mouth, getting each day’s supply in the day, we are as well off as Israel; for when the Lord entertained His favored people He Only gave them a day’s manna at a time. What more did they need? What more do we need? But if we have a store, how much we need the Lord to bless it!

For there is the care of getting, the care of keeping, the care of managing, the care of using; and, unless the Lord bless it, these cares will eat into our hearts, till our goods become our gods, and our cares prove cankers.

O Lord, bless our substance. Enable us to use it for thy glory. Help us to keep worldly things in their proper places, and never may our savings endanger the saving of our souls." ~~Charles H. Spurgeon, Faith’s Checkbook

[myrdale]

I profess to being a Christrian, I believe God walks with me, and have been blessed me well. The act of tithing however, is something I have struggled with. To put it very bluntly, I do not believe in doing it. I perfer donating to a charity where I can see my money go to work verses giving it to the church, and that said, I don't give 10% to charity, so I still have a ways to go yet. Also I might be of a different opinion if I was involved in a church that directly helped the public.

I definatly agree with Lux that I have a certain amount of insecurity, that makes me want to keep as much of what I have as I can. At the same time though, I do not believe I worship my money or belongings. If I have a major purchase coming up, I do pray over it. And I do thank the Lord for all I have been blessed with.

One point for Jesus wanting us to be secure would be Mattew 7:24. The story of the man who built on the rock verses the one who build on the sand. The one who built on the rock survived the storm, while the one who didn't was ruined. It is compairable to the Three Little Pigs story, where the extra effort and investment and work, right now, will pay many times over.