People are fat because they're poor

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by trex

One of the main reasons that people in the US are fat is because they're poor.

You do like to stir the pot, don't you?

As with your other threads, this one is just as ridiculous and overly broad. There are fat people who are wealthy. There are fat people who are middle class. There are fat people who are lower class and there are fat people who are quite poor. The same goes for thin people. They come in all income ranges.

I'm a physician. I work in one of the poorest cities in America. Obesity is very common, but I also have plenty of patients who are just as poor but maintain normal weight. How? They eat a healthy diet and exercise regularly. As much as people want to blame everything but personal responsibility, the answer to obesity is quite simple: diet and exercise.

I find fast food and junk food to be too expensive. We hardly ever eat it because we can make a much more enjoyable, filling and healthy meal for less money at home.

Now if you said people are fat because they are uneducated about proper diet and nutrition, I might agree with you. Or if you said people are fat because they don't take personal responsibility for their own well being, I'd also agree with you. But fat because they're poor simply isn't true.

[Scanner]

I've been both - fat and normal.

I'd have to say $ for $, the tradeoff is about the same.

When I am over-eating carbs. . .yes, I am stopping at Wawa everyday, getting chips and soda, getting a hoagie for lunch, it all adds up.

When I am maintaining the Atkins Lifestyle (which I am doing now), my grocery bills are definitely higher by buying protein, but I am not "convenience storing" it. Eating tuna salad, chicken salad, deviled eggs, etc.

So. . .it's about a wash, maybe a little more money to eat Atkins but not by much. (eggs and peanut butter are cheap sources of protein).

Yes, this poster is just trying to stir the pot. The obesity problem in America is more complex than money.

If it were that simple, we send everyone "economic stimulus" checks to eat healthier and the obesity problem would be solved.

[Pitman]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

I find fast food and junk food to be too expensive. We hardly ever eat it because we can make a much more enjoyable, filling and healthy meal for less money at home.

I agree 100%.

Once I started buying groceries once a week, usually on Sundays, and completely cut out eating/buying Fast Food, I've saved around $300 a month.

Also, before I started saving, I was eating fast food twice, sometimes three times a day, and I didn't gain not one ounce.

[sweeps]

I don't agree with OP's premise either, but throwing fast food into the equation is misleading -- you're paying extra for service.

Someone who eats Ramen noodles and store-brand macaroni & cheese all day can eat for very cheap (albeit unhealthy).

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Scanner

I've been both - fat and normal.

I'd have to say $ for $, the tradeoff is about the same.

When I am over-eating carbs. . .yes, I am stopping at Wawa everyday, getting chips and soda, getting a hoagie for lunch, it all adds up.

That doesn't even cover it, though. You can go to Wawa and pay the exact same price for a salami and cheese hoagie with mayo and oil, fried chips and regular soda that you pay for a turkey hoagie with mustard, no cheese, baked chips and bottle of water. There is a big difference between the calorie count of those two options even though there isn't a penny difference in price.

[Scanner]

DisneySteve,

THe problem is, to me, both of those menu items you presented, although $ equal, are unhealthy to me - baked chips or Herr's Sour Cream and Onion chips are essentially empty calories. Both breads are empty calories. The salami and cheese or turkey has some protein and fat to sustain you (they are nutrient dense) but that's it.

The only thing I may go into Wawa for now. . .is a cup of chicken salad and a plastic fork on the run.

Other than that, there's nothing there of dietary interest to me now.

[noppenbd]

I think buying fast unhealthy food is a symptom of our immediate gratification culture, rather than a class issue. I don't think it is necessarily laziness per se, but the idea of "why take the time?"

As in,

Why take the time to be thin by dieting for months and months when I can eat tasty fattening food and enjoy it right now?

Why take the time to plan a menu, write a list, go to the grocery store, make the meal, box it up, and bring it to work, when I can just go to the FF restaurant next to my office?

This is not to say that every or even most people that are overweight are because of eating more fast food. But on the average, there is definitely a trend that is bringing the averages up.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Scanner

DisneySteve,

THe problem is, to me, both of those menu items you presented, although $ equal, are unhealthy to me - baked chips or Herr's Sour Cream and Onion chips are essentially empty calories. Both breads are empty calories. The salami and cheese or turkey has some protein and fat to sustain you (they are nutrient dense) but that's it.

That's a whole different discussion. I'm speaking strictly about calories vs. price. My point being that for the same price, you can get a meal with fewer calories or a meal with more calories. A 300 calorie Coke is a lot worse than a zero calorie bottle of water.

[DebbieL]

I'm going to have to agree (somewhat) with the original poster. I find eating healthy FAR more expensive than eating crap. I'm talking about at least 30-40% more on my grocery bill. I do eat healthy for the most part, but they charge you through the nose for it. Maybe it's different where some live, but here it is definitely much cheaper to load up on crap.

If you drive through any of the poor neighborhoods in the cities around here they are absolutely littered with fast food joints. I can drive by several KFC, McDonald's, Wendy's, you name it in the stretch of just a kilometer or two. Once you get into the richer neighborhoods you don't see them.

When my parents used to go up north hunting each fall (Northern BC native communities) they said you couldn't find so much as a piece of fruit or vegetables. The stores were full of crap like chips and hot dogs. This is a serious problem. These communities are full of diabetes and all sorts of other health problems related to obesity (not to mention alcoholism and drug use, but that's another issue).

I think that while poverty is obviously not the SOLE cause of obesity, it is a contributing factor in our society where the cheapest foods are crap, and we have communities of people who are being raised on it and don't really know any different. Lack of education also goes along with poverty (frequently).

[Scanner]

I don't think that it's not they don't know any better but that bag of chips or Value Meal might be their only joy in a doldrum type of day.

I mean, really, who in America doesn't get it?

I"ll concede there's a big dispute on what's more the culprit - animal fat or sugar and flour (you know where I stand) but for the most part, people know what good nutrition is and isn't.

I don't know. . .I still maintain it's a wash. Let's say you do $4.50 for McDonalds for breakfast and $6.50 for McDonalds lunch.

That's $11.00 for two meals. . .you are saying that's going to top a month's grocery bill?

You could eat 2 hard boiled eggs for $.30 for breakfast w/some salt and pepper and tuna salad on wheat with an apple and peanut butter for $3.00 at the most.

I don't get it.

How can eating fast and convenient food top shopping at the supermarket?

[Scanner]

BTW, I have a solution for this but it would probably upset the liberalatarians among us here.

If a person is on Food Stamps, as a taxpayor, I expect that to go towards healthy food for the recipient and their dependents. I move having food "stamps" go towards a "gift card" like technology that the recipient swipes at check-out.

Only qualified purchases would get paid - so Haagan-Daaz, Chips, Bon-bons, etc. would be excluded - apples, watermelon, rice, beans, nuts, chicken, beef - that goes through.

Just an idea - needs some polish but I think it would work.

And I support mandatory drug testing - one strike rule - you are found with drugs in your system - you have one chance at paid-for rehab. Second strike - all gov't funding is pulled. This only makes common sense.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by DebbieL

I find eating healthy FAR more expensive than eating crap.

I think some people are blending two issues. One is weight gain. The other is nutrition. They overlap but they aren't the same. Eat too many calories and eventually you'll gain weight no matter if those calories come from Twinkies or from bananas. I think you can maintain a healthy weight without spending any more than obese people spend on food by making better food and beverage choices.

[SnoopyCool]

Eating healthy is a matter of priorities. If you wish to eat healthy, you will find a way to do it, regardless of cost (grow a container/small garden for veggies, for one). I think this site is a testament to putting your mind to something and doing it (financially speaking). Therefore, in my mind, there is little argument about this other than to say you have to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and figure it out. If you desire good health, you'll work for it.

[sweeps]

Scanner, many food stamp (and similar) programs limit what you can buy to the "essentials", so you can't buy junk food, beer and cigarettes.

That's a good thing obviously, but on the other hand that frees up other money for junk food, beer and cigarettes.

[Snave]

oxymoron: jumbo shrimp, adult children, dark day, firm estimate, loud silence, etc... In response to post above about what an oxymoron is.

[tmango]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

, the answer to obesity is quite simple: diet and exercise.

.

shhh...this is my secret. ...
I dont get the fad diet thing..seriously.just eat right and exercise. i am going to write a book on this one day and make millions!

[sweeps]

Originally Posted by ithaca

No, they're fat because they're lazy.

Kinda harshly worded, but isn't this the default human condition? The cavemen would've been fat too if food wasn't scarce and they weren't running from mastodons all the time.

[poundwise]

Originally Posted by sweeps

Kinda harshly worded, but isn't this the default human condition? The cavemen would've been fat too if food wasn't scarce and they weren't running from mastodons all the time.

So.. we need to "Jurassic Park" us some mastodons and, viola, obesity problem solved.

[jodi]

A lot of good discussion here...just a few more points to add. No, I do not think obesity is a condition of poverty, although I do think poverty CAN contribute to it (obvoiusly, not in all cases and for all people). When I lived in a large city, on the west and east sides (the "better" sides), we had nice supermarkets. On the south and north sides (higher crime, more poverty, less households with cars), supermarkets were few and far between. If you don't have a car, it was easier to walk to the corner store or fast food place to load up. I would watch kids going into the schools with a handful of chips that they got at the corner store on their way in. As an outsider looking in, it seemed almost a way of life - their parents taught them by example and these kids didn't know any other way. No one taught them how to cook at home. When I worked at a teenage shelter, we couldn't even get the kids to eat good home-cooked food, only chicken nuggets and Steak-ums. It's a product of the environment, and who's doing anything to counter it? I don't see them building any new markets, teaching cooking in schools, etc. I don't even know where you could buy fresh fruits and veggies in some of these neighborhoods. I have always been fortunate enough to have access to transportation - but there are many who do not.

Second, a lot of unhealthy food is definitely cheaper than it's healthier counterpart. Instant white rice is cheaper than brown. White bread is at least half the price of whole wheat. White pasta is cheaper than whole wheat. Canned veggies are cheaper than fresh or even frozen, though they are packed with sodium. Even though they may be similar calorically, there are many studies showing that refined white foods can cause you to eat more over the long run (rise/dip in blood sugar, leads to more eating over time). I hope I'm explaining this correctly as I'm no expert, but I do know that after switching to whole grains and more fresh veggies, I did eat less over time because I satyed full longer and lost the cravings for sugar/carbs. So, in opting for the cheaper, less nutritious foods may actually lead to overeating, and thus, obesity, IMHO. Not to mention the impact of empty calories, higher sodium, etc.

Oh, and of course, there's the huge impact of lack of exercise, but that definitely cuts across socioeconomic lines.

[trex]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

That's a whole different discussion. I'm speaking strictly about calories vs. price. My point being that for the same price, you can get a meal with fewer calories or a meal with more calories. A 300 calorie Coke is a lot worse than a zero calorie bottle of water.

Maybe you should read this:

How the feds make bad-for-you food cheaper than healthful fare | By Tom Philpott | Grist | Main Dish | 22 Feb 2006

Why do low-income people tend to exhibit more diet-related health problems? Adam Drewnowski, professor of epidemiology at the University of Washington, posits a simple answer: people are gaining weight and getting sick because unhealthy food is cheaper than healthy food -- thanks in large part to federal policies...

From a short-term economic viewpoint, the Ding Dongs present a better deal: 360 calories per dollar, and no need for the time or skill to cook. "If you're on a limited income trying to feed a family, in a sense you're behaving rationally by choosing heavily sweetened and fat-laden foods," Drewnowski says.