College Out Of High School is a Waste of Money

[trex]

Originally Posted by Broken Arrow

Welcome trex. Quite the entrance, coming in swinging. In some places, that may be pegged for trolling... and there's no need for that here, is there?

This is all I wanted to say. I prefer not to feed the trolls.

You're saying that expressing an opinion about finances is trolling just because I happen not to have been here a long time? Does that mean that I need a blessing from the powers that be to express my opinion?

That is exactly what is wrong with finances. People not willing to express different views or willing to defend them to learn more.

Yes, I have strong opinions on money issues from a lot of life experience. As has been shown in this thread, I'm not the only one that holds this opinion. I see the overall discussion as a positive thing and learn from how others respond. I assumed that this was financial education, not trolling.

If that is being a troll, then maybe I underestimated this forum.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Seeker

I think this is more because of the cost of living side of things. When I got out of HS there's no way that I could have paid today's prices on a room in an apartment with today's a minimum wage job.

So Steve, I think it's not so much that today's generation does not "have the same desire to be independent" -- I think they do have this desire; but I think they have problems seeing themselves being able to survive and get ahead financially with leaving home and thus "living-on-the-edge" and making their lives better through college and career and paying for everything financially as well.

I wasn't referring to HS grads. I was referring to College grads, who, presumably, will enter a better-than-minimum wage job upon graduation. There are losts of mid and late 20-somethings returning home to mom and dad after getting their degrees.

Is cost of living an issue? Maybe. So get a roommate or 2 or 3. Get a 2nd job. Make your way in life on your own power. Be an adult. That's life.

I think a lot more of the problem is that people want to graduate right into the lifestyle that their parents enjoy now only after working up to that lifestyle for 20 or more years. They don't want to start out like their parents did at the same age. My first apartment was a roach-infested 1-room apartment. I slept on a sofa bed for 2 years. Was it where I really wanted to be? Of course not. But it was what I could afford at the time in the area I needed to be.

I have a friend who is 20 or 21. She is out on her own with no parental support. We hardly ever see her, but did see her this past weekend. She basically works day and night to pay her rent and bills. She doesn't like doing it but that's what she needs to be doing right now to get by.

I have another friend who is a senior in high school. She will be going to college in the fall and has decided to stay at home and commute. Why? Is it because she and her family can't afford room and board? Nope. It is because (by her own admission) she is a "princess" and doesn't want to share a dorm room with another person. What do you think will happen to her after college? How likely is it that she'll be in any hurry to leave the nest and fly?

We all want a better life for our kids, but I think we sometimes do them a disservice in the process. We all need to learn to make our own way in life, not be babied well into adulthood.

[InDebtInDC]

Originally Posted by trex

You're saying that expressing an opinion about finances is trolling just because I happen not to have been here a long time? Does that mean that I need a blessing from the powers that be to express my opinion?

Yes, you in a way do need the approvals of others before asserting your views.

You are like the neighbor who just moved into the neighborhood and then start stirring up stuff without really understanding the innerworking of those around you.

Most agree with what you say. Some don't. Others just don't care or know the difference. You need to start figuring who's who before you start firing away.

Originally Posted by trex

That is exactly what is wrong with finances. People not willing to express different views or willing to defend them to learn more.

There is debating, and then there is being confrontational. Which one do you want to do?

Originally Posted by trex

Yes, I have strong opinions on money issues from a lot of life experience. As has been shown in this thread, I'm not the only one that holds this opinion. I see the overall discussion as a positive thing and learn from how others respond. I assumed that this was financial education, not trolling.

Does that discount my life experience, or anybody else's life experience? Does your conclusions gleaned from your personal experience make your conclusions the corrects ones universally applicable to everybody and every situation?

Originally Posted by trex

If that is being a troll, then maybe I underestimated this forum.

There's no need for that kind of talk. Let's all just be above it.

[mom-from-missouri]

I've have seen both sides of this issue. In my opinion, I have seen kids graduate from high school that have the maturity of a jr high student. Then, I have seen the opposite. Some are ready, some are not. If one is truely not ready, then its a waste. Those who are not ready tend to sleep thru class and not go, or party and flunk out. They lack the get up and go. My cousin was like that. He flunked out, so took 2 years off and worked. Went back to school and got a degree in safety. Years later went back again and is now a physician in his late 50's and a very good one at that. One of my step daughters, is getting 2 four year degrees in 3 years after getting an early out from highschool. She is a go getter type of person-yet her twin sister has never attended a day of college yet.
Different people have different clocks in them.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Usually when you ask somebody in college why they are there, they'll tell you it's to get an education. The truth of it is, they are there to get the degree so that they can get ahead in the rat race. Too many college radicals are two-timing punks. The only reason you should be in college is to destroy it.
--Abbie Hoffman, Steal this Book

[cptacek]

I had to get out of the house after high school! There were 6 kids younger than me plus one on the way, and they needed my room! Oh, and my dad would have worked me to death on the farm and on the roof if I had stayed home, so I made sure I got a degree where I didn't have to do that manual labor. (oh wait, I'm now trying to farm myself. Oops, that lesson didn't stick, did it?)

Maybe kids stay at home and don't want to move out because they just have it too darned easy at home? When I was 27, I was a supervisor over 5 people at my old job (in IT), and one of the guys on my team was in his 50s. He had three kids. His oldest kid was older than me, and my employee still paid for his car, his food, his cell phone, his insurance, didn't charge him rent, the kid didn't have a curfew, didn't have any rules, just could do anything with no consequences. The guy on my team was trying to figure out how to retire early, and could have, if his oldest leech wasn't draining money away from him.

[hailiesmom515]

Originally Posted by sweeps

What does taking a year or two "off" after high school mean? How could flipping burgers or sitting around playing video games for a couple years and delaying when you can earn the big bucks be better than going to college?

As was mentioned above, college gives you a great opportunity to get exposed to lots of careers. Your first 2 years you're taking core courses that can apply to just about any career.

Sitting around playing with your Wii isn't going to bring your career aspirations into any more focus.

ok i know that this thread is old but i happened to come across it and this reply offended me taking a year or two off after high school does not mean you are going to be flipping burgers. i had a 4.0 gpa in high school, i was in in the whos who, national honor roll ect, but my mom got sick, so when i got out of high school, i had no chioce, i had to work and support my family. i do not make minimum wage, or flip burgers. between me and my husband, ( me 20 him 22) we make 70,000 a year,(not much compared to most of you i know, but not bad for our age) neither one of us have college education. and now i am going to start college, with work reimbursment. i dont have to pay a dime. i will go to school one night a week, study group one night, and have my bachelors in buisness management in 4 years. it is a faster pace, and i will have to work hard, but it is better than coming out of college in $40000 debt

[atomicrc11]

I think the point was taking time off to "find yourself". Your situation was obviously different. You are also an outlier when it comes to income. Most people are making less that $30k per year with just a high school diploma. There are many that make more, but are managers and it would take years to get there. The average retail manager makes about $40k per year and that is after years of working in the chain.

Also, you did miss out on quite an experience in college. It is where I found what I wanted to do. It helped being exposed to many careers so that I might find the one I liked. I found the field in college and then it took me 4 years to find the job that fit me best. Also, you'll probably have to work 1 year past getting your degree if you get reimbursed from work since they most likely require you to stay for 1 year after each reimbursement for college. So if you left right after the degree that would cost you 1 years' tuition.

Every situation is different and I'm glad it worked out for you. However, just because you come out of a 4 year school with $40K plus in debt doesn't mean it was worthless. I came out with friends and contacts that I never would have met in the working world.

Also keep in mind, had you gone to college right after high school, you most likely would have paid very little. If you parents had an average income and you had such a stellar academic record, you may have gone to school for free. I know someone who is very talented academically and now in their career. She has a BS and two MS's and didn't pay a dime for either. She got them all through scholarships and grants.

[Well Spent]

I know parents who want to support their children who've graduated from college. They would prefer to have them live at home but settle for paying for the apartment in the city. Maybe they don't want their adult children to struggle the way they did and feel grateful that they can supplement their meager first salaries?

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by Well Spent

Maybe they don't want their adult children to struggle the way they did and feel grateful that they can supplement their meager first salaries?

I think you are absolutely right, and I think that is part of the problem. I think that struggle is an important part of life. It makes you appreciate the fact that you need to work for what you want. My first apartment was a pit, roaches and all. It helped give me the drive to do well and elevate my standard of living.

If everything is just handed to adult kids, will they have the same drive?

Call me an old fogey, but I think some struggle is important along the road of life to build character.

[Well Spent]

I agree with you, Steve. Self-reliance is vital for true adulthood. I was sharing the perspective of some of my older colleagues in the Baby Boomer generation which, in my opinion, of course, has really damaged this country financially and socially.

[hailiesmom515]

Originally Posted by atomicrc11

I think the point was taking time off to "find yourself". Your situation was obviously different. You are also an outlier when it comes to income. Most people are making less that $30k per year with just a high school diploma. There are many that make more, but are managers and it would take years to get there. The average retail manager makes about $40k per year and that is after years of working in the chain.

Also, you did miss out on quite an experience in college. It is where I found what I wanted to do. It helped being exposed to many careers so that I might find the one I liked. I found the field in college and then it took me 4 years to find the job that fit me best. Also, you'll probably have to work 1 year past getting your degree if you get reimbursed from work since they most likely require you to stay for 1 year after each reimbursement for college. So if you left right after the degree that would cost you 1 years' tuition.

Every situation is different and I'm glad it worked out for you. However, just because you come out of a 4 year school with $40K plus in debt doesn't mean it was worthless. I came out with friends and contacts that I never would have met in the working world.

Also keep in mind, had you gone to college right after high school, you most likely would have paid very little. If you parents had an average income and you had such a stellar academic record, you may have gone to school for free. I know someone who is very talented academically and now in their career. She has a BS and two MS's and didn't pay a dime for either. She got them all through scholarships and grants.

i never said it was worthless. just that i am glad not to be 40000 in debt straight out of school. i probaly would have got a scholarship, in fact i was in line for one when my mom got sick. and yes i will have to work for this company for a year after i graduate, but my plan right now is to stay with them longer than that, as there is endless Opportunities to move up. if my plans change, it's still only a year.

[bjl584]

I can see both sides of this argument. When I was 18 and first went off to college, I was one of those kids that had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. Thinking back, I thought that maybe it would have been a good idea to go get a job, learn about the world a little bit, and save some money before I went to school. But, when I looked around I noticed a lot of people that decided to take that route ended up getting stuck in a rut and never actually going to college at all. I didn't want that to happen to me, so I went off to school.

[mladyd]

I was someone who took time off after HS and got a job instead. Then I bought a car, got an apartment with a friend, met a guy, got married and had kids. Now I'm almost 50 years old and can honestly say I've been going to college off and on for the last 30 years. I got my AA degree in the 90's and might get a BA by 2012 if the stars line up just right. I'm not complaining but the reality is that life got in the way and I never again had the opportunity to just focus on me for 4 years like I would have had if I went right out of high school.

My 21 yr old wanted to get the heck out of dodge the minute she graduated from high school. With only a vague idea of what she wanted to do she picked a college, picked a major, and headed out. It was the right thing for her to do and she is doing well there.

My youngest will be graduating next year and he doesn't want to go anywhere. He has no clue what he should be doing or what kind of job he would like to have so he plans to stay home, go to the local JC and continue working at the job he has had since he was 16. It's obvious he isn't ready to make any big life decisions yet so it's the right thing for him and he will be fine.

There is no "one size fits all" approach to life. But our rule is that we will only support them while they are going to school. If either chooses not to go to college they will have to support themelves. I think that's fair and works around their different personalities. It also evens things out financially with us paying for our eldest to live at college by giving our youngest extra time to live at home.

[jIM_Ohio]

Originally Posted by disneysteve

I have another friend who is a senior in high school. She will be going to college in the fall and has decided to stay at home and commute. Why? Is it because she and her family can't afford room and board? Nope. It is because (by her own admission) she is a "princess" and doesn't want to share a dorm room with another person. What do you think will happen to her after college? How likely is it that she'll be in any hurry to leave the nest and fly?

We all want a better life for our kids, but I think we sometimes do them a disservice in the process. We all need to learn to make our own way in life, not be babied well into adulthood.

First- you have young friends.

Second- the female living at home is either a prude, or will change her tune quickly when she realized m&d might make a comment or two if she comes home at 5am Sat morning, or does not come home at all after staying at a boys dorm room.

I lived at home for portions of my college career (thru junior year) then realized m&d cramped my social life too much about comings and goings.

[jIM_Ohio]

Originally Posted by mladyd

My youngest will be graduating next year and he doesn't want to go anywhere. He has no clue what he should be doing or what kind of job he would like to have so he plans to stay home, go to the local JC and continue working at the job he has had since he was 16. It's obvious he isn't ready to make any big life decisions yet so it's the right thing for him and he will be fine.

There is no "one size fits all" approach to life. But our rule is that we will only support them while they are going to school. If either chooses not to go to college they will have to support themelves. I think that's fair and works around their different personalities. It also evens things out financially with us paying for our eldest to live at college by giving our youngest extra time to live at home.

I agree there is no one size fits all.
I see a trend where the younger siblings tend to stay at home longer. I am 35, I have a 32 yo brother which is still dependant on my retired parents.

The story started similar to what you posted about your youngest- if person does not know what to do at age 18 or 21, it's not a parental requirement to keep them in the house.

They seriously may never leave.

[disneysteve]

Originally Posted by jIM_Ohio

First- you have young friends.

Both friends mentioned are fellow congregants at our temple. And I've known both of them since they were kids.

[Gailete]

Most college students graduate with a huge amount of debt. Life sucks for them from day one in the working world

I worked my way through college and when I left it, they OWED me $100!

[kork13]

I'll only agree that college isn't for everyone or at any certain time. I went to college straight from high school, as did nearly 80% of my high school graduating class. admittedly, I came from a DoD/military high school... different culture--most people there have parents who have already implanted high goals in their children. even in spite of that, for those who went, most already had career plans, and specific degree programs at specific schools they were to go to. Those who didn't go did so because they had no plans ever to (we'll see about the future...), because they were going to go directly into strong, stable jobs that didn't require college degrees.

I know this doesn't entirely respond to the OP, but then... I seem to remember trex a few months ago posting alot of greatly exaggerated, controvercial generalizations strictly for the sake of "conversation" (a.k.a. argument), so that once people started disputing him he could carefully back down from his original premise, while insisting that the entirety of his argument is valid because "this one point" is still valid. Look back, he did that here.... Just personally, as someone who values--and has studied--logic and logical arguments, that just kind of bothers me....